General Discussion Thread #5

[Pisto_lius]

Reeva's parents do not want a televised trial.

I don't believe this before I hear it from Reeva's parents personally.

Reeva's parents want to know the truth why and how her daughter died. For this reason her mother takes on the burden to be in court during the forthcoming murder trial against OP - despite her deep pain and grief.

And I'm rather certain her parents and all relatives and friends of Reeva want that the general public also be told the truth - namely the whole truth and not only what bought (?) media are reporting told by the DT.

 

[Pisto_lius]

So do you predict that the Judge would have already made the application so they will have it ready for the trial? Or would she have to wait until the trial and then order it to be done? Surely they would have to have it first. But they will surely get it - just a matter of when. They say they are ready so they must have got it by now.

I suspect

1. Prosecutors asked judge Masipa for a judicial decision to instruct APPLE to crack the code to OP's iPhone on the grounds that any information of OP's iPhone is admitted by her as evidence in court immediately after the judge has been appointed because it is urgent for their case.

2. The judge gave them this judicial decision as soon as possible and prosecutors sent it immediately to the US court.

But logistics and bureaucracy needs time, so they have still not received any response.

3. Prosecutors aren't stupid. They know they have to apply the admission of all evidence they want to use in the trial before the trial starts. Otherwise, they are running the risk that the judge rejects a belated application to take evidence.

4. Prosecutors say they are ready so I'm sure the judge also agreed they can use this evidence in trial even if they receive the necessary information later.

So who will the Prosecutor be who will present the case of the State?
Gerrie Nel?

Of course Gerrie Nel will be the prosecutor who will present the case of the state . He knows all the details of the case. He served the indictment.

As far as I know from other criminal trials I assume he will be supported by at least one colleague. Four ears hear more then two, four eyes see more than two - so it benefits the state's case if they - like the DT - have more than one representative in court.

 

[kittychi]

Thank you, Pisto, for taking time to make these very insightful posts.

:clap:

 

[Pisto_lius]

>>>Quote excerpted for brevity<<<

I had to laugh when Journalist, Karyn Maughan said ECN had been given the password and had been able to access OP's i-tunes music tastes as if to say so what is the problem?

IMO this must have been a joke. But if it's true it seems very fishy and questions have to asked are:

How could eNCA get access to OP's iPhone ?

Where did they get OP's Apple ID and password ?

This is confidential information and only people directly involved in the case should have access to this.

I doubt very much DT or PT gave OP's Apple ID and/or password to media.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Pistorius prosecutor Nel has 'integrity beyond reproach'

He is an artist in presenting evidence, say those who know the man set to prosecute Paralympian and murder-accused Oscar Pistorius.

Gerrie Nel has built up a reputation not only for his skill and dedication but also his determination.

[....]

A career prosecutor with more than 30 years of experience, Nel is a familiar name in South African law for taking on big cases, including that of former national police commissioner and Interpol president Jackie Selebi.

[....]

Judged by his previous record, Nel is seldom at a loss for words.

[....]

Nel has a string of court successes behind his name.

Read more at: http://mg.co.za/article/2014-02-20-pistorius-prosecutor-nel-has-integrity-beyond-reproach

Let's hope for the best and that nothing unexpected happens raying:

IMO in the broadcast hearing Roux looked not that much convincing as in the bail hearing but quite ridiculously compared to the media lawyers :giggle:

 

[Interested Bystander]

Not the most excellent source, but I have seen this headline in a couple of places this morning:

Oscar Pistorius told security guards everything was 'fine' at his home AFTER shooting dead his girlfriend, according to prosecution documents

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-prostheses-time-shooting.html#ixzz2typjwiKC

I, too, thought that comment was noteworthy. It sounds as though he had not formed his alibi at that time, given the guard's call must have been within a very short time from hearing the shots. My guess is that he had not got his alibi in order and didn't want to be interrupted "any time soon". How long it took for him to think up an alibi and possibly contact others before calling for genuine help for Reeva hopefully will become clearer at the trial. I can think of NO reason why OP would turn down help from the guards if he genuinely thought that an intruder was in the house.

 

[kittychi]

I still want to know his blood alcohol level and Reeva's too. I am very curious about the earlier report that there was evidence of heavy drinking. My theory is that one reason he went off was because he was drunk. Alcohol seems to have always played a part in the other dramas in his life.

 

[Estelle]

PROSECUTION CONFIDENT THEY CAN PROVE INTENT

Today I am feeling very confident having read the 13 allegations that the Prosecution will present at the trial. It appears they are confident of being able to prove intent which is the important aspect in proving premeditation. Also I am pleased that Gerrie Nel will be the Prosecutor as they say he "has the Midas touch" and that there will be a female Judge who has been a Social Worker in her past and against domestic violence.

:jail: :jail: :jail: :jail:

DEFENCE LEAKED THE DOCUMENTS - NO INTEGRITY IMO

The National Prosecuting Authority said it had not leaked the documents.
&#8216;The defence has access to everything, to the docket and all evidential material we have,&#8217; spokesman Nathi Mncube said. &#8216;We don't give anything to any other person other than the defence and if it gets leaked, it won't be us. We can't do that because it's damaging to our case.&#8217;

However, I am absolutely shocked at the fact that the Defence has leaked these documents to eNCA before the trial even commences. Not that it matters really as it is a Judge only trial and it might build up even more public interest which they apparently do not want. Would the media have paid for these documents and has OP agreed to their being released as he is short of cash for his defence? Otherwise, it seems very strange. Roux would have been the first to complain if it was the other way around.

PISTORIUS' INTERNET BROWSING HISTORY WILL PROVE INTENT

Apparently the radio news service disclosed how police plan to rely on the athlete's Internet browsing history to prove he intended to kill his model girlfriend. Pistorius' website activity on the night Reeva died, the document reportedly claims, 'is in direct contrast to that of a loving couple spending time together'.

I am curious to find out about what exactly he was doing on the internet!

So did they get the password to the other phone yet?

OP also ignored Reeva and spoke at length on the phone to at least two of his mates earlier in the evening about cars, etc. and warned one not to come over that night with the excuse that his car might be highjacked!

PISTORIUS FENDED OFF SECURITY GUARDS WHO OFFERED TO HELP

Prosecutors believe security guards at Pistorius&#8217; gated community called the athlete after the shooting to check if everything was okay, to which he replied he was fine and did not require their assistance.

NEIGHBOUR 98 METRES AWAY HEARD SHOUTING

Police also claim a neighbour who lives less than 100 metres away heard shouting on Valentine&#8217;s Day, the night of Steenkamp&#8217;s death.

REEVA WAS WEARING OSCAR'S SHORTS AND A T-SHIRT WHEN SHE DIED

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...s-say-he-was-on-stumps-when-he-shot-enca.html

I find it strange that Reeva was wearing Oscar's T-shirt and shorts when she died. Maybe she was naked and he put his clothes on her after her death. Otherwise, was he trying to cover up something by removing her own clothes as he claimed they were in bed beforehand? Not many models would wear their partner's clothes to bed, would they?

SO WHAT WILL OSCAR PISTORIUS PLEAD? CULPABLE HOMICIDE?

Last week, on the anniversary of Steenkamp&#8217;s death, Pistorius posted on his website: &#8216;No words can adequately capture my feelings about the devastating accident that has caused such heartache for everyone who truly loved - and continues to love Reeva.

Surely he would not plead innocent now after admitting that it was a "devastating accident"? That would be culpable homicide - mistaken identity.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-prostheses-time-shooting.html#ixzz2u14V0UCq

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sadly, if Sam lied at the bail hearing, nobody is going to believe a word she says UNLESS she has written/recorded proof.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Sam Greyvenstein gave an affidavit for OP's bail hearing.

Now she has changed her statements.

Isn't this called PERJURY ???

 

[Pisto_lius]

NPA spokesperson Nathi Mncube tweeted: "The document currently being circulated by the media is not a public document&#8230; It is not a public document as it has not been signed by any NPA officials particularly the prosecution team&#8230; As such will not comment on the contents thereof."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...oting-girlfriend-reeva-steenkamp-9144218.html

The NPA spokesperson Nathi Mncube TWEETS about trial information ???

This raise the question of why they sued OP and bring him to justice instead take a vote on twitter whether he's guilty or not?

I think I'm in the wrong film ! :tantrum: :banghead:

 

[Estelle]

But the NPA have not even filed the documents yet. However, the State have copies, don't they?

I read where someone predicted the Clerk of the Court could have leaked/sold the rights.

Does it really matter when there is a Judge only?

Both sides know who their witnesses are and the evidence. Is that right?

I have noticed in the past that Karyn Maughan and Barry Bateman seem to be pro-Pistorius.

 

[Pisto_lius]

Oscar Pistorius enjoys sunny holiday while father of Reeva Steenkamp suffers near-fatal stroke

Barry Steenkamp’s brother blamed his illness on Pistorius' forthcoming trial and an out-of-court deal between the Paralympian and a party guest over an alleged *assault.

Weeks before his murder trial, bladerunner Oscar Pistorius looks relaxed and happy on holiday - while the family of Reeva Steenkamp go through hell.

While the athlete , who fatally shot Steenkamp, soaked up the sun in South Africa’s idyllic Knysna, the 29-year-old model’s dad Barry, 69, suffered a near fatal stroke.

He is now recovering at home in Port Elizabeth.

Barry’s brother Mike blamed the life-threatening condition on the forthcoming trial, due to start on March 3, and an out-of-court deal between Pistorius and a party guest over an alleged *assault in 2009.

Mike said: “When my brother opened a newspaper report about the upcoming trial and an out-of-court settlement, it broke him to pieces.

"That’s why he had a stroke. He is not coping very well.”

The family will be attending the trial in Johannesburg, where South African sport *legend Pistorius, 27, will claim he shot Reeva on February 14, 2013, at his gated Pretoria home after mistaking her for an intruder.

Mike said: “We can’t bear walking into a shop with balloons and Valentine’s things. It is *devastating for all of us.

"When we are *confronted with something like this we just turn around and walk away.”

Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamps-father-3175158

My best wishes to the whole Steenkamp family and friends - especially fast recovery to Barry Steenkamp.

I feel with them from the bottom of my heart :heartbeat:

 

[Estelle]

IDYLLIC HOLIDAY BEFORE HOLIDAY IN HELL?

In December/January, OP was in Mozambique.

In February, he is in Knysna.

For those like me, who have never heard of it, here is a link

Knysna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In March (or later), he could be holidaying in hell (jail)

I feel sorry for Barry S. It was not clear to me what the uncle meant but I interpreted that to mean that they have not settled out of court yet but that OP has settled with the other lady (Memmory-Taylor). Financial worries and grief are not good for our health. So that is the reason he is not going to the trial.

Love and best wishes

Ex

 

[Pisto_lius]

But the NPA have not even filed the documents yet. However, the State have copies, don't they?

Both sides know who their witnesses are and the evidence. Is that right?

As far as I know all process-relevant documents have to be handed over to the judge and also in copy to the other partie. Not only witness lists but also witness statements, expert reports (e.g. forensics/balistics) and last but not least a so called *trial brief*.

A *trial brief* is a written summary or statement explaining the partie's position or a particular issue to the judge. The *trial brief* states the facts, evidence, and legal arguments that each partie plan to present at trial and typically includes citations to legal authority (such as statutes, case law or rules) to support their position.

Non of this is intended for the public, so I don't understand Nathi Mncube's statement on twitter. I think he simply wanted to play down the issue.

I read where someone predicted the Clerk of the Court could have leaked/sold the rights.

I don't believe that the Clerk of the Court have leaked/sold the rights. Not since I read the copyright reference of eNCA. THEY have the copyright on theses information because THEY bought it. And who would have an interest to disturb the state's case? Definitely not a *small employee* of the court.

Does it really matter when there is a Judge only?

Sorry, but I don't understand what do you mean :blushing:

I have noticed in the past that Karyn Maughan and Barry Bateman seem to be pro-Pistorius.

I have the same felling

 

[Pisto_lius]

>>>Quote excerpted for brevity<<<

It was not clear to me what the uncle meant but I interpreted that to mean that they have not settled out of court yet but that OP has settled with the other lady (Memmory-Taylor).

I think the uncle (and whole family) is mad about the fact that OP tries to sweep all his problems under the carpet with money (settlements). It seems they didn't know that OP also made a settlement with Cassidy Taylor-Memmory and heard about it from the media.

And I could imagine that the Steenkamps are both ashamed and enraged to be dependent on the money he offered them.

He always tries to buy his way out of his responsibility.

One settlement with Cassidy Taylor-Memmory....
Another settlement with the Steenkamps....

And all of this shortly before his trial starts - so that he have a "clean coat" and leave a good impression. :jail: :jail: :jail: :jail: :jail:

 

[kittychi]

Oscar’s online antics

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-s-online-antics-1.1651226#.UwjJZeOSxrU

I am curious what all of you think OP may have been doing online. Browsing a dating site? *advertiser censored*? Chatting with another woman or women? Or ???

We already had the impression that Reeva was somewhat neglected by him because of a long phone call. Now we learn he was also browsing the internet, apparently amounting to more than just looking up something on Google. So she was neglected more than we first heard.

What do you think?

 

[Pisto_lius]

I am curious what all of you think OP may have been doing online. Browsing a dating site? *advertiser censored*? Chatting with another woman or women? Or ???

We already had the impression that Reeva was somewhat neglected by him because of a long phone call. Now we learn he was also browsing the internet, apparently amounting to more than just looking up something on Google. So she was neglected more than we first heard.

What do you think?

I cannot vouch for the truth of the following report. But it appears that all documents prosecutors have sent to the defence last week were leaked.

It's unbelieveable, shocking and scandalous !


Oscar surfed *advertiser censored* sites on fatal night

In the hours before he shot and killed his model girlfriend, Oscar Pistorius was surfing his cellphone looking at *advertiser censored* sites.

This is among the sensational evidence the state will present when the world-famous "Blade Runner" goes on trial for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp in just more than a week's time.

The revelation about Pistorius's *advertiser censored* activities, discovered through data retrieved by the police from one of his cellphones found on the crime scene, is at odds with his description of his relationship with Steenkamp, a blonde stunner who appeared on several magazine covers and had a bright future ahead of her.

The timing of his internet "activities" - which also included surfing used-car sites - corresponds with the time he and Steenkamp were at home together on the eve of Valentine's Day.

The National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) said in court papers in a reply to the defence this week that "the accused's website activities from the time that he got home is in direct contrast to that of a loving couple spending time together".

A source with intimate knowledge of the investigation said: "The history recovered from this phone shows he visited those sites during the time they were at home together. Why was he checking out such sites while she was there?"

[....]

The NPA's case was leaked to sections of the media this week, and questions were raised over which side stood to benefit from the revelations.

NPA spokesman Nathi Mncube denied emphatically that the leak came from the prosecuting body.

He said he could not speculate on whether this would have any effect on the trial.

Read more: http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/23/oscar-surfed-*advertiser censored*-sites-on-fatal-night1

 

[Interested Bystander]

A helpful graphic that shows and names four of OP's direct neighbours who are on the state's witnesses list

- Frank Chiziweni (OP's gardener who lives in a backroom of OP's house)
- Michael + Eonite Nhlegenthwa
- Bareng + Ria Motshuane
- Jacques + Estelle van der Merwe

It's apparently unknown where the houses of four other residents who live at the same estate and will testify are located

- Johan + Annette Stipp
- Christo Menelaou
- Nyiko Maluleke
- Osterella Ntombenkosi Mkhwanazi

http://de.scribd.com/doc/162790733/What-did-Oscar-Pistorius’-neighbours-hear

Some of these must have heard quite a lot. The security guards heard shots and that must be at least 250 yds away. I did measure it on google maps at one point but have forgotten what I posted. I will have another look. It does make it possible that the neighbour from some distance away, quoted in the bail hearing, really did hear something. It will be interesting to hear the technical statements during the trial.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I cannot help thinking that it is the OP camp that is leaking the information. They will have had all the court papers by now telling them exactly what the PT are going for.