George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

[Sillybilly]

In order to keep the trial discussion thread focused on the trial itself, this will be the general discussion thread for when court is adjourned.

Happy Easter weekend everyone !!

Be safe, be well, be kind !!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

STATE’S AMENDED PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTION REGARDING THIRD-DEGREE MURDER

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...20-12646/ProposedJuryInstructions04012021.pdf

 

[FinalGirl]

I assume the defence will call some kind of force expert or trainer right? but surely none will be able to say what Chauvin did was justifiable?

 

[Cubby]

In my opinion: not by itself.
Not Unintentional 2nd degree anyway, because death has to have occurred as the result of a felony, which is 3rd degree assault in this case, meaning "serious bodily harm"
Said felony does need intent, so they would have to prove intent to cause serious bodily harm, which I think they have not yet.

We're way into 3rd degree territory though. 2.25 if you will.

Thank you. The felony portion of the statute is what confuses me.. I don't know that felony requirement would consist of.

 

[sds71]

here's the letter with Zimmerman's name on it.

Gia Vang (@Gia_Vang) / Twitter

 

[dixiegirl1035]

STATE’S AMENDED PROPOSED JURY INSTRUCTION REGARDING THIRD-DEGREE MURDER

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...20-12646/ProposedJuryInstructions04012021.pdf

Thanks! I'll add to media thread docs thread.

WOW! You are quick, as was the state as this decision just came down on 31st from the Supreme Court in MN, and State submitted yesterday... Thanks!

part of above

"The State hereby amends its proposed jury instruction regarding third-degree murder in light of the Minnesota Supreme Court’s decision on March 31, 2021 in State v. Coleman, No. A19-0708, __ N.W.2d __, 2021 WL 1201738 (Minn. Mar. 31, 2021).

" It indicated that “[o]ne way to accurately state the law in a jury instruction” regarding third-degree murder “could be to use the phrase ‘but it must have been committed withan indifference to the loss of human life that the eminently dangerous act could cause.” Id. (emphasis in original). "

That approach, the Court explained, “would eliminate the unnecessary and confusing ‘reckless or wanton’ language, and removes the ‘with the knowledge that someone may be killed’ language that we have held materially misstates the required mental state.”

State remedy in the attached is

 

[MsBetsy]

Are you meaning that it then moves up on ladder on the 3 charges as is he did this committing the felony, that box is checked? I'm moving there today also.

Yes, that he caused the death of a person while committing or trying to commit a felony. (assault) He didn't intend to kill him but he meant to cause bodily harm. Imo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Thank you. The felony portion of the statute is what confuses me.. I don't know that felony requirement would consist of.

The felony part was what most of today was all about. That it was "DEADLY FORCE" (=FELONY) to use knee on neck while killed. And that Chauvin should have known such due to training. Ergo, felony now which many here were awaiting to see if shown that a felony was part of the commission of the death of GF. In addition to more info on the aspect of the charge of negligent due to no care on top of it. MOO

Top of the "Use of force continuum POLICY and training"

1) Your presence as LE
2) Verbal skills
3) Soft technique e.g. escort to your LE vehicle
4) Hard technique e.g. handcuffs or mace
5) DEADLY FORCE = Knee on neck

 

[Wild Rose]

The testimony about DC telling the other officer to belt in GF on a stretcher confuses me. Primarily it is for the safety of the patient. That just doesn't add up to me here because prior to this DC did not address the medical safety concerns of GF. So why did he address it at this point by giving an order? If it was to give a different appearance to responding units, that doesn't add up either, because responders had to get him off GF's neck. Very confusing to me.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

This is an excellent resource for anyone who's interested.
It explains the charges and reasons for being convicted.

Noor was a former Minneapolis police officer.

A jury found appellant, a former police officer, guilty of third- degree murder and second-degree manslaughter, based on his shooting of an unarmed woman when responding to a 911 call.

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/Noor04012021.pdf

 

[Wild Rose]

A stretcher has a series of belts, like steps of a ladder. They belt you flat down and then EMTs have to manually move a part on the stretcher to lift your head or torso. Maybe he didn't want GF to have a chance to get up?

 

[bluebird69]

Same thing happened in Noor trial here in Minneapolis...two officers in car with very little experience....I think this happens because Minneapolis has had so many resignations in the last 5 years....maybe few senior officers left?

I wonder why so many are choosing to resign and what if any measures can be taken to remedy the situation

 

[Blondiexoxo]

The smirk on Chauvin’s face as the ambulance door shuts is chilling, he didn’t care at all, just another day at the office. He had 9 minutes 29 seconds to think about what he was doing. Most officers who end up shooting someone have seconds to react. 9 minutes and 29 seconds shows he didn’t panic and react. He showed indifference to human life by ignoring GF repeatedly stating he couldn’t breathe and ignoring onlookers, far from a ‘mob’ who were so concerned that some of them ‘called the police on the police’. Their concern and distress was justified as we heard yesterday. Chauvin consciously chose to ignore both the witnesses and fellow officer who suggested rolling GF over. He showed indifference for distressed witnesses by intimidating them with mace if they tried to come near.

I know you have to put emotion aside on a jury, but the video footage of GF’s final moments is something that speaks for itself in terms of whether this was right or wrong.

 

[Wild Rose]

For GF to have a minimal chance to gasp air when no longer prone...?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The testimony about DC telling the other officer to belt in GF on a stretcher confuses me. Primarily it is for the safety of the patient. That just doesn't add up to me here because prior to this DC did not address the medical safety concerns of GF. So why did he address it at this point by giving an order? If it was to give a different appearance to responding units, that doesn't add up either, because responders had to get him off GF's neck. Very confusing to me.

Or ?CYA I'm following protocol and you should too you NEWBIE Lane that restraints are required and that is your job above giving medical care. He certainly was focused on restraining wasn't he.

MOO

 

[Blondiexoxo]

When it comes to the defence’s turn to present evidence I will be watching from behind a pillow.
You just know that the toxicology report will be used to paint GF out as being in a drug fuelled rage, I think we are all prepared for that. But I think they are going to try and say that GF ingested fentanyl prior to police taking him from car, and that he overdosed, which is why he was shouting ‘I can’t breathe’ before being on the ground.

I have a feeling that his lifestyle will be used against him and it is so so wrong. Because the fact is, if Chauvin did not respond to that scene GF would still be alive. I can’t condem the other officers actions because they aren’t on trial right now and I did hear 1 atleast asking to roll GF over and being worried about asphyxia or something like that.. If Chauvin had said ‘let’s roll him over’ the other officers would have agreed and GF would still be alive. He had complete power over the situation and if he hadn’t been on shift on may 25th 2020 none of this would have happened IMO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Subd. 2.Use of deadly force.
(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 609.06 or 609.065, the use of deadly force by a peace officer in the line of duty is justified only if an objectively reasonable officer would believe, based on the totality of the circumstances known to the officer at the time and without the benefit of hindsight, that such force is necessary:

(1) to protect the peace officer or another from death or great bodily harm, provided that the threat:

(i) can be articulated with specificity by the law enforcement officer;

(ii) is reasonably likely to occur absent action by the law enforcement officer; and

(iii) must be addressed through the use of deadly force without unreasonable delay; or

(2) to effect the arrest or capture, or prevent the escape, of a person whom the peace officer knows or has reasonable grounds to believe has committed or attempted to commit a felony and the officer reasonably believes that the person will cause death or great bodily harm to another person under the threat criteria in clause (1), items (i) to (iii), unless immediately apprehended.

(b) A peace officer shall not use deadly force against a person based on the danger the person poses to self if an objectively reasonable officer would believe, based on the totality of the circumstances known to the officer at the time and without the benefit of hindsight, that the person does not pose a threat of death or great bodily harm to the peace officer or to another under the threat criteria in paragraph (a), clause (1), items (i) to (iii).

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.066

 

[Marysmith]

When it comes to the defence’s turn to present evidence I will be watching from behind a pillow.
You just know that the toxicology report will be used to paint GF out as being in a drug fuelled rage, I think we are all prepared for that. But I think they are going to try and say that GF ingested fentanyl prior to police taking him from car, and that he overdosed, which is why he was shouting ‘I can’t breathe’ before being on the ground.

I have a feeling that his lifestyle will be used against him and it is so so wrong. Because the fact is, if Chauvin did not respond to that scene GF would still be alive. I can’t condem the other officers actions because they aren’t on trial right now and I did hear 1 atleast asking to roll GF over and being worried about asphyxia or something like that.. If Chauvin had said ‘let’s roll him over’ the other officers would have agreed and GF would still be alive. He had complete power over the situation and if he hadn’t been on shift on may 25th 2020 none of this would have happened IMO

Totally agree. DC is ultimately responsible for GF’s death. JMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

When it comes to the defence’s turn to present evidence I will be watching from behind a pillow.
You just know that the toxicology report will be used to paint GF out as being in a drug fuelled rage, I think we are all prepared for that. But I think they are going to try and say that GF ingested fentanyl prior to police taking him from car, and that he overdosed, which is why he was shouting ‘I can’t breathe’ before being on the ground.

I have a feeling that his lifestyle will be used against him and it is so so wrong. Because the fact is, if Chauvin did not respond to that scene GF would still be alive. I can’t condem the other officers actions because they aren’t on trial right now and I did hear 1 atleast asking to roll GF over and being worried about asphyxia or something like that.. If Chauvin had said ‘let’s roll him over’ the other officers would have agreed and GF would still be alive. He had complete power over the situation and if he hadn’t been on shift on may 25th 2020 none of this would have happened IMO

BOOM... and if he thought such was the case (George told the first two he had been hooping also) that he should give NARCAN!!!!! Overdoses are common in that area, all PD have such (hmmmm, perhaps needed by prosecution to state such to get ready for defense... YOOOO HOOOO to prosecutors!!!!)

RE NARCAN (aka Naloxone) Does naloxone reverse any overdose?

Naloxone only works on overdoses caused by opioids. This family of drugs includes prescription painkillers like OxyContin, fentanyl, methadone, and Vicodin, as well as street drugs like heroin. Naloxone will not reverse overdose resulting from non-opioid drugs, like cocaine, benzodiazepines (“benzos”), or alcohol. Given how safe naloxone is, a victim of a non-opioid overdose, or an overdose caused by a mixture of drugs will not be harmed by naloxone. In multiple drug overdoses (e.g., an opioid and a benzodiazepine) it is still worth administering naloxone as it will remove the effects of the opioid and may still reverse the overdose. HE TOLD THEM HE HAD BEEN HOOPING

 

[Boodles]

When it comes to the defence’s turn to present evidence I will be watching from behind a pillow.
You just know that the toxicology report will be used to paint GF out as being in a drug fuelled rage, I think we are all prepared for that. But I think they are going to try and say that GF ingested fentanyl prior to police taking him from car, and that he overdosed, which is why he was shouting ‘I can’t breathe’ before being on the ground.

I have a feeling that his lifestyle will be used against him and it is so so wrong. Because the fact is, if Chauvin did not respond to that scene GF would still be alive. I can’t condem the other officers actions because they aren’t on trial right now and I did hear 1 atleast asking to roll GF over and being worried about asphyxia or something like that.. If Chauvin had said ‘let’s roll him over’ the other officers would have agreed and GF would still be alive. He had complete power over the situation and if he hadn’t been on shift on may 25th 2020 none of this would have happened IMO

The inference (or proof if it exists) that GF took fentanyl in the car wouldn’t justify Chauvin’s behavior, IMO, because they never even discussed using Narcan, as far as I can tell. If they felt he was ODing, Narcan would have been administered (unless he didn’t want to revive him, which in itself would be problematic).

I know someone who ran off the road with her car and was out of it. They gave her Narcan and took her to the hospital ASAP.