George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

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Do we know what the document dump consists of?

IMO it is likely something that the prosecution is required, by law, to provide to the defense once the prosecution has rested their case (due to the timing).

Court attorneys have to meet up with each other frequently, in many different cases. Some of them are friends with each other. I don't think they intentionally try to make life hard for each other (judging by the things my best friend's ADA DIL has said about socialising together etc.)

Just my guess... it's probably either past testimony (which can be 100's - 1000's of pages), maybe articles? I don't know what experts he has coming tomorrow, it would probably give us a better idea of what it is.

The judge made it clear, he did NOT think the State was acting in bad faith, but it doesn't make it fair and he would probably have to give Nelson a continuance if they didn't at least give Nelson a "clue" and highlight what they plan on using.

I have watched lots of trials, these attorney's seem to get along well, and even the judge with them as well. Some I have watched, you can just feel the tension through the livestreams. JMO
 
DOPEY or DROWSY? There's a difference!

Shawanda Hill gave the Prosecution a fabulous, yet missed, opportunity this morning. She said she was in GF's car with him and on her phone when GF fell asleep. This was AFTER he'd told her that he'd worked all night and, as a result, was very tired.

Ever sit in a car when you're tired? If you're not driving, you can fall asleep rather quickly during the drive. Same effect occurs on public buses and trains as they move along. The movement is a lulling sensation (to some) that helps one fall asleep more easily. Parents know that a drive around the block can easily calm a cranky, sleepless baby, causing them to fall asleep rather quickly, and knowing this, parents will load their infant into a car and drive them around until s/he falls asleep (the baby, not the parent!).

Now, the chair one is in doesn't have to be in a moving vehicle. As we all know, a person can fall asleep just sitting in a stationary room chair. Jurors do it all the time! So here's a guy who's finished a night shift, maybe played some basketball afterward (the sun was out by then), stopped on the way home to get some smokes, and he runs into an ex-girlfriend who testifies that GF was "happy, normal, talking, alert". Then they get into his car and she takes a phone call soon afterward. GF has nothing to do but wait... wait until she's done with her call, wait until they decide if they're going to grab lunch or do something, or do nothing. Shawanda said they'd been talking about what they were going to do and during this conversation, her phone rang and she took the call. So what does a tired, seated GF do? He nods off. Big deal!

Ever see a tired person nod off before? They go deep! If a person is extremely tired, they can nod off quickly - and by quickly, I do not mean that some hypnotist snaps their fingers and the person is out, but that; because they have nothing holding their attention at the moment, their eyes will close, their body will relax, and then... zzzzz. The body NEEDS sleep and it will take it when opportunity presents itself. A Sleep Specialist can discuss
natural sleep cycles and the various Sleep Phases we experience, as well as explain factors that can affect a person's biological sleep (circadian) rhythms. Some factors can dramatically change both the duration and the experience of the Sleep Phases. One factor that can interfere with deep restorative sleep is: working nights.

So there's GF nodding off while Shawanda's yapping on her phone and her impression is that he fell asleep quickly. Is she a Sleep Expert? Exactly how long did it take GF to nod off, and exactly how long is it considered normal for someone who's tired to nod off when just sitting around doing nothing?
Check her phone records. How long was she on that call? Time seems to go faster when you're involved in something and not paying attention to time itself. Was she chatting for more than three minutes, because that's about all it takes for me to nod off when I'm exhausted/sleep-deprived and sitting in front of a TV. Less if I'm listening to Nelson, who asked Shawanda Hill if she continued "to try to awaken Mr. Floyd?" to which she replied: "Yes. I tried a couple times. Then, you know, I just let it go for a minute because I was back on the phone." Okay...

1) Regarding trying, twice, to wake GF, she should have been asked what she did specifically in an effort to do this. Did she yell and scream at him? Did she shake him vigorously or just nudge him, if she touched him at all? Did she pour water on his face?

2) She obviously wasn't that concerned that her second attempt, whatever that may have been (Stating his name a second time?) was ineffective. She didn't tell whomever she was talking with that she had to excuse herself from their conversation and call 911 because GF fell asleep so quickly that she thinks he may need medical attention, as he is now unresponsive. Nope! She shrugged it off and went back to yapping on the phone. Also, she was his ex-girlfriend. Perhaps she’d seen him nod off on other occasions and knew he could be a deep sleeper when very tired.

When asked by the Prosecution if she was able to wake him, Hill confirmed so with one word ("Yes.") that she WAS able to wake him, and also confirmed that she was able to talk to him, then added that he "wasn't that coherent" to which she was reminded by the Prosecution: "He was just waking." That's called grogginess. She should try talking to me after I wake up from a nap. I'm marble-mouthed, groggy, my eyes haven't focused yet. I'm not coherent, either. Kids fall asleep all the time, only to wake wide-eyed and staring into space with little to say and acting as if they were under some trance -- and we don't suspect that they're using or being given drugs! Being overly-tired may APPEAR as if someone is under the influence of something, but that 'something' may simply be sleep deprivation.

Now add this what I said in a previous post about GF's startled surprise when police rapped on his window. He'd either just opened his eyes from nodding off or was awakened by the sound of the knocking itself. He sees the officers, one of which is aiming a gun at him. What a thing to get woken up to! In later body-cam footage, Shawanda Hill mentions to Officer Cheng that GF had been shot before. And today, what does she testify GF does when he sees police just outside the car he's fallen asleep in, a gun aimed at his head?
“He grabbed the wheel and started saying 'Don’t shoot me! Don’t shoot me!' "

His fear response makes even more sense with Ms. Hill's testimony.

And her apparent anger makes a bit of sense too, from this perspective. Nelson wants to blame GF's death on GF and his use of drugs. I can't speak for Ms. Hill, but I can guess that she's not thrilled with Nelson using her this way. And I'm not thrilled with Nelson either because I have no clue what his point is. He keeps changing his focus, moving the Blame around like it's a chess piece.

Did anyone here learn anything new from any of his witnesses today, something compellingly significant that might possibly create doubt about Chauvin's knee/calf cutting off GF's oxygen intake as it pressed on his airway for over 9 minutes, causing all skin from GF's neck up to turn an oxygen-deprived blue-black and causing him to die?


 
Is anyone aware of any implications of the civil settlement of $27 million to the family? Could this be a hint of a problem with the police training policies in place at the time? I do realise this was seen as a problem by the defence during voir dire, so probably not. Genuine question (I am not in the USA !)
 
I got the impression, when Schleicher finished, that Nelson had to take a moment and shuffle his papers about, because he literally had nowhere to go after that. Both he and Chauvin looked like they’d been slapped in the face with a large slappy thing.

I just watched that. I didn't get that impression at all. He could have been surprised he was done with cross (I was). He grabbed his laptop and went to the podium. *shrug*
 
I’m on a bit of a break from posting on threads right now (still reading) but I have to break my silence just to welcome you @TwistedMysteryWriter and tell you that is one outstanding post! I saw it this morning and I’m so glad you brought it over here. It doesn’t matter if it’s your first post or your 10,000th post, you nailed every point brilliantly. Stick around! I want to read more. :)

Well, thank you so much for the very warm and encouraging welcome! Glad I could peak your interest -- and break your silence! ;) You made my day! Thank you again!
 
Is anyone aware of any implications of the civil settlement of $27 million to the family? Could this be a hint of a problem with the police training policies in place at the time? I do realise this was seen as a problem by the defence during voir dire, so probably not. Genuine question (I am not in the USA !)

In the Justine Damond case in Minneapolis, the city settled on a large sum for Mohamed Noor's culpability.
The city had fast-tracked Noor's employment as they needed minority police officers. The city also promised changes to policing policies, after Justine's death.

The settlement for George's death could be similar, in a way ..... (bad) policy driven. Especially considering that the suit was settled prior to the criminal trial.
 
DOPEY or DROWSY? There's a difference!

In later body-cam footage, Shawanda Hill mentions to Officer Cheng that GF had been shot before. And today, what does she testify GF does when he sees police just outside the car he's fallen asleep in, a gun aimed at his head?
Snipped by me- I didn't hear her say that he had been shot before. Thanks for that info, it definitely makes sense his fear of being shot and freaking out.
 
Like @Lilibet just said..
The one thing about the counterfeit money is... GF and his passengers were fully aware that the store knew or suspected it was fake, workers went out 2 times to talk to them about it (I can't recall what day that testimony was from, but will look for it if you are interested :) ) I remember the first few days a lot of us couldn't figure out why they didn't just leave. But since then, it's been said out of court that GF was nodding off in the car, that is why they didn't drive away. GF's ex-girlfriend at some point phoned her daughter to come and pick her up. I think his ex is on the defense witness list, so we may hear from her and we might find out more.

Ah, I was not aware of this. So it seems as if GF and Friends weren't concerned about the funny-money? Not enough to rush off... But then, apparently GF was nodding off, something I just posted about, as I suspect he was weary from working the night-shift. Night shifts can really mess with your head - literally; your brain. I do hope this gets cleared up, simply to close up the whole drug matter which seems to be what Nelson is most leaning on at the moment. His EMT witness today spoke of (I think) 7-9 opioids??? in his system on another date, a drug class and "dosage" I would think (I'm no doctor) would be more threatening to his life than the particular drugs, and the amount and/or combination of drugs, found in his system at autopsy, as none of the State's experts said that this would have been fatal to him.

Thanks so much for the inspiring welcome, and for sharing info with me to "chew" on. I really appreciate that! :)
 
Is anyone aware of any implications of the civil settlement of $27 million to the family? Could this be a hint of a problem with the police training policies in place at the time? I do realise this was seen as a problem by the defence during voir dire, so probably not. Genuine question (I am not in the USA !)
It is not a hint...it is an outright statement of many things including the failure of the police training. The fact that the jury knows about that sure does not help the case for the defense...another appeal issue.
 
It is not a hint...it is an outright statement of many things including the failure of the police training. The fact that the jury knows about that sure does not help the case for the defense...another appeal issue.

I hope this is something that can't drive an appeal. Seeing that the judge was very careful to question every juror about the lawsuit settlement - no doubt using judicial methods to circumvent an appeal due to this matter.
 
posted this just as other thread closed..

The document dump...I don't think it was 50,000 all at once, but it went from 41k up to 50k, still seems unreasonable to be doing that the night before testimony.

Not sure if anyone else caught it, but at the end of the day, judge wanted lawyers in chambers to deal with a 'security' issue

Do we know what the document dump consists of?

IMO it is likely something that the prosecution is required, by law, to provide to the defense once the prosecution has rested their case (due to the timing).

Court attorneys have to meet up with each other frequently, in many different cases. Some of them are friends with each other. I don't think they intentionally try to make life hard for each other (judging by the things my best friend's ADA DIL has said about socialising together etc.)

Just my guess... it's probably either past testimony (which can be 100's - 1000's of pages), maybe articles? I don't know what experts he has coming tomorrow, it would probably give us a better idea of what it is.

The judge made it clear, he did NOT think the State was acting in bad faith, but it doesn't make it fair and he would probably have to give Nelson a continuance if they didn't at least give Nelson a "clue" and highlight what they plan on using.

I have watched lots of trials, these attorney's seem to get along well, and even the judge with them as well. Some I have watched, you can just feel the tension through the livestreams. JMO

I can't bring over my quote from the Day 12 Trial thread, so I have added a screenshot of it. I will also add the links below. Also, today, after the jury left, Nelson starts discussing more disclosures (regarding possible impeachment questioning of defense witnesses) at about 1:20:25. Judge Cahill does respond with a quip about continuance at 1:23:ish


Bates stamped items definition:

Bates numbering - Wikipedia

Article about Nelson's complaint to court regarding disclosures:
Defense attorney in George Floyd case says prosecutors shared disorganized, duplicate evidence

Defense attorney in George Floyd case says prosecutors shared disorganized, duplicate evidence

All MOO etc.
 

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Re RH stating that GF had claimed to have been working all night. I was not aware that GF was in employment, my understanding was that he had lost his job as a bouncer due to covid restrictions and some vague mention of a driving job which he had already lost for some unknown reason jmo
 
It is not a hint...it is an outright statement of many things including the failure of the police training. The fact that the jury knows about that sure does not help the case for the defense...another appeal issue.
I hope this is something that can't drive an appeal. Seeing that the judge was very careful to question every juror about the lawsuit settlement - no doubt using judicial methods to circumvent an appeal due to this matter.

Whoever made the decision on the timing of that, should be fired. IMO
 
Re RH stating that GF had claimed to have been working all night. I was not aware that GF was in employment, my understanding was that he had lost his job as a bouncer due to covid restrictions and some vague mention of a driving job which he had already lost for some unknown reason jmo

Did George lose his job? I haven't read that yet, but may have missed it. I would have thought that even with pickup-only service at food locations (if that was the case), security might be required to ensure mask and social distancing compliance.


George Floyd worked as a security guard at a Minneapolis bistro and coached basketball and football in his spare time.
Minneapolis police officer charged with murder as White House forced into lockdown
 
Did George lose his job? I haven't read that yet, but may have missed it. I would have thought that even with pickup-only service at food locations (if that was the case), security might be required to ensure mask and social distancing compliance.


George Floyd worked as a security guard at a Minneapolis bistro and coached basketball and football in his spare time.
Minneapolis police officer charged with murder as White House forced into lockdown

(I heard or read somewhere that he lost his job due to covid, iirc it was the security job, jmo.)

eta:
Floyd, who had moved to Minneapolis in 2014 to turn his life around for good, lost his job as a bouncer at a nightclub amid Minnesota's coronavirus stay-at-home order, which shuttered bars and restaurants. ... People who knew Floyd say he always handled heated situations with patience and a big smile.Jun 13, 2020

In The Spotlight: Beyond the name – who was George Floyd? - CGTN



Before his deadly encounter with police, George Floyd had begun a new life in Minnesota
MAY 28, 2020

“Before he died after being pinned for minutes beneath a Minneapolis police officer’s knee, George Floyd was suffering the same fate as millions of Americans during the coronavirus crisis: He was out of work and looking for a new job.

Floyd moved to Minneapolis from his native Houston several years ago in hopes of finding employment and starting a new life, said Christopher Harris, Floyd’s longtime friend. But he lost his job as a bouncer at a restaurant when Minnesota’s governor issued a stay-at-home order.“
 
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