George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread #10 Mon. July 8

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I base my thoughts about TM being violent from the beating he gave GZ. GZ never landed a blow. He was beaten for a while, calling for help before he had to use the gun to save himself. The State has shown nothing that fits the facts to work for their side.

So to me TM had violent tendencies based on the facts in evidence.

Nothing more. I don't know much about him before I am just going by facts in the case..

Which is what I think we should all be doing.. OMO

 

[PaperDoll]

RJ testimony... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fwBaAPlP6c

She repeats herself so much.. But this is what I have so far...

From where he sees GZ and tells her he is "creepy"..
RJ:
He says man is looking at him. I said he could be a rapist..
TM says Don't play with me like that..
Rj: Then why he keep looking at you..
TM says HE is following me. He told her he was going to start home. They were talking about the All star game. Then TM said That Expletive is still following me. She told him to run.
" HE SAID NO I AM ALMOST AT DAD's GF HOUSE"
" HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO GO FROM THE BACK"
I heard wind and then the phone shuts off.
(So who knows where TM IS HEADING AT THIS POINT.. He could have just told her he was staying home so she would not worry or say anything to him... or carry on about it.. )
" I called him back and he answered"

(This is where it gets weird because she is repeating testimony from a few minutes ago and I am not sure she is on to new testimony at this point going with time passing... It almost seems exactly what she said a few minutes ago and his words are the same also.. So seems like repeat not new testimony.. )

HE said I am at area near the house. She says to run and he said.. " I LOST HIM"

HE was breathing hard.. ( So he was running somewhere even though he said he in back of DAD's GF house.. )

Then he said.. " OH Expletive."
That Expletive behind me.
I told him to run
I went in an closed the bathroom door
I was on bluetooth
TM SAYS FIRST " WHAT ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME FOR.. "

( So now we have a confrontation started by whom??? Trayvon Martin

Not GZ. GZ did not speak first and if he was really the one walking up on TM I bet he would have.

I think with all the phones going in and out and disconnecting, TM has plenty of time to go back and confront GZ.

Remember she is only telling what she says TM told her. but that does not mean he was being up front 100% either. I believe she embellished some but I believe that this testimony supports GZ account and not the STATES supposition of what happened.

OMO but taken from testimony..

TM has a right to know why this guy is following him, he ran from him twice and now they are face to face. GZ could have said, but didn't, I'm not following you I'm looking for a address, but instead he was provoking TM by saying "What are you doing around here?" This tells me he was watching and following TM and TM wasn't doing anything wrong and wants to know why he's being followed. Then RJ goes on to say she heard TM say "get off me, get off me"..

 

[Candy_Pickletoes]

But, at the end of the day (and I hate that overused phrase)... the world was talking about the defense opening statement and not the really good and emotional opening statement by the prosecution. Brilliant?

And you earned the "Errr...yerrrp" LOL Didn't think of it that way and I usually do! It certainly has us talking even days after he made it.

IMO MOO IMHO and all that jazz.

 

[Nezumi]

When I was teaching at a college I had a secretary to whom I often dictated letters. She would type them and I would sign them. What's wrong with that?

Nothing at all wrong with that. That was your secretary's job. The fact is, though, that you were capable of writing your own letters if need be and were not attempting to misrepresent your abilities. Rachel Jeantel was not capable of writing (or reading) that letter.

 

[greycoupon]

BBM

What are you talking about?? Who's fans?

In regards to Miss Jeantel, I disagree with your implication that she is an educated pillar of society. Did you watch the same testimony I did? I don't care how many languages she speaks. She could not read. She was IMO combative on the witness stand and did not come across as being well-spoken OR articulate. Not even a little bit.

She could read. She just couldn't read cursive. I can't read handwriting either.

I don't think she was a good witness but she was still distraught over being the last person TM talked to. Not knowing her educational background I don't think some of the comments about her age and still being in high school are really fair.

JMO.

 

[William N]

Fair enough....either way, I see it as a negative reflection on the chracter of GZ. My husband is a military man and doesn't speak filth like that...to anyone...neither do my sons and daughters.

The defense is really trying to show GZ's injuries resemble those received by men in combat!?!?!??! How dare them compare this blinking defendent to our honored troops!!!!! IMO

IMO calling someone a "creepy *advertiser censored* cracker" can be seen as a negative reflection on the character of TM. IMO it also explains why he jumped GZ.

 

[katiewonders]

No offense Horace, but I have yet to see proof of a violent background with TM. What I have seen that includes violence is the same stupid stuff I see on about 50 percent of teenagers social media (The fight over the bike he recorded, the "bird flipping" pics, the tough talk in his tweets, etc.).
If one was inclined they could go to twitter, facebook, and youtube and probably find about a hundred kids like him in a 10 minute span.

It reminds me of something I saw about a dad seeing his kids facebook open. I won't link it, but I can post what was said-

"This Facebook update, posted by a dad who came upon his son Chris's profile when the teenager forgot to log off, is the best Facebook update we've ever seen:

"To all of Chris' friends: This is his father. My son carelessly left his account logged in so I decided to snoop around. Upon reading my son's personal information, I would like to clear a few things up. My son is not a "gangsta," he will not "beat a ho's *advertiser censored*" and he will most certainly not "roll a fatty wit his boyz." So for all of those who think he is some hard *advertiser censored** , think again...he is Chris, a 15 year old kid that was afraid of the dark untill he was 12 and cried at the end of Marley and Me."

My point is, social media posturing most times does not equal reality.
Not saying it is smart on these kids parts, but it is not out of the norm.

Thanks, Nymeria: BBM Heckfish, I would say most of any online messaging does not equal reality.

Back when the internet was *new* (not too long after Al Gore invented it), I had my son watch me as I told people online that my son's * insert wrong name here* 10th birthday was that day. Naturally they all congratulated *wrong name*. My son said to me that that wasn't his name and I looked at him, smiled, and said "You're not ten, either." The lesson taught was valuable: be aware that what others say to you online is not necessarily the truth.

At least, that's the lesson I taught and he seemed to understand: I sure hope he didn't hear "I can lie to people on the internet". :floorlaugh:

 

[SassyMom]

She could read. She just couldn't read cursive. I can't read handwriting either.

I don't think she was a good witness but she was still distraught over being the last person TM talked to. Not knowing her educational background I don't think some of the comments about her age and still being in high school are really fair.

JMO.

How are they not fair if they are factual?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

TM has a right to know why this guy is following him, he ran from him twice and now they are face to face. GZ could have said, but didn't, I'm not following you I'm looking for a address, but instead he was provoking TM by saying "What are you doing around here?" This tells me he was watching and following TM and TM wasn't doing anything wrong and wants to know why he's being followed. Then RJ goes on to say she heard TM say "get off me, get off me"..

That is not the issue. The issue is He went back and confronted him.. HE approached GZ with the question.. Not GZ as the state would have us believe.. Their own witness has TM as the confronting party.

GZ was back at the T or close too it, Before this point TM told his friend he was at his dad's gf house.. So he is the one who went to seek out GZ. TM does not say.. HE HAS A GUN! HE walked up to GZ and questioned him..

And with all the noise we don't know for sure who was saying Get off me.. Get off me.. It could have been GZ...
Whether he had a right to do that is not at all an issue for me.

WE don't know what TM was doing, So to say he was doing nothing wrong is just not fact. It is just opinion. We just don't know... OMO

 

[LynnM]

No offense Horace, but I have yet to see proof of a violent background with TM. What I have seen that includes violence is the same stupid stuff I see on about 50 percent of teenagers social media (The fight over the bike he recorded, the "bird flipping" pics, the tough talk in his tweets, etc.).
If one was inclined they could go to twitter, facebook, and youtube and probably find about a hundred kids like him in a 10 minute span.

It reminds me of something I saw about a dad seeing his kids facebook open. I won't link it, but I can post what was said-

"This Facebook update, posted by a dad who came upon his son Chris's profile when the teenager forgot to log off, is the best Facebook update we've ever seen:

"To all of Chris' friends: This is his father. My son carelessly left his account logged in so I decided to snoop around. Upon reading my son's personal information, I would like to clear a few things up. My son is not a "gangsta," he will not "beat a ho's *advertiser censored*" and he will most certainly not "roll a fatty wit his boyz." So for all of those who think he is some hard *advertiser censored** , think again...he is Chris, a 15 year old kid that was afraid of the dark untill he was 12 and cried at the end of Marley and Me."

My point is, social media posturing most times does not equal reality.
Not saying it is smart on these kids parts, but it is not out of the norm.

I grew up in the sixties. I looked and talked like a hippie. I wore my hair long and parted in the middle, I wore love beads and tie dyed shirts and bell bottom jeans. To this day, I have yet to so much as smoke a marijuana cigarette. I just wanted to fit in with popular teen culture.

 

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

It is troubling that there are posts blatantly misstating facts/ making up facts and just using imo/jmo.

Over lunch break I heard on cnn that the defense has a animated reenactment. jmo

No. They are are going to do a reenactment but it won't be animated, it will be Ms Hora and MoM acting it out.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

No offense Horace, but I have yet to see proof of a violent background with TM. What I have seen that includes violence is the same stupid stuff I see on about 50 percent of teenagers social media (The fight over the bike he recorded, the "bird flipping" pics, the tough talk in his tweets, etc.).
If one was inclined they could go to twitter, facebook, and youtube and probably find about a hundred kids like him in a 10 minute span.

It reminds me of something I saw about a dad seeing his kids facebook open. I won't link it, but I can post what was said-

"This Facebook update, posted by a dad who came upon his son Chris's profile when the teenager forgot to log off, is the best Facebook update we've ever seen:

"To all of Chris' friends: This is his father. My son carelessly left his account logged in so I decided to snoop around. Upon reading my son's personal information, I would like to clear a few things up. My son is not a "gangsta," he will not "beat a ho's *advertiser censored*" and he will most certainly not "roll a fatty wit his boyz." So for all of those who think he is some hard *advertiser censored** , think again...he is Chris, a 15 year old kid that was afraid of the dark untill he was 12 and cried at the end of Marley and Me."

My point is, social media posturing most times does not equal reality.
Not saying it is smart on these kids parts, but it is not out of the norm.

I'll have to respectfully disagree based on his twitter account (not the one that was hacked) and his cell video of a fight. Imo.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Thanks, Nymeria: BBM Heckfish, I would say most of any online messaging does not equal reality.

Back when the internet was *new* (not too long after Al Gore invented it), I had my son watch me as I told people online that my son's * insert wrong name here* 10th birthday was that day. Naturally they all congratulated *wrong name*. My son said to me that that wasn't his name and I looked at him, smiled, and said "You're not ten, either." The lesson taught was valuable: be aware that what others say to you online is not necessarily the truth.

At least, that's the lesson I taught and he seemed to understand: I sure hope he didn't hear "I can lie to people on the internet". :floorlaugh:

However we know it is used in court all the time. Why because it is written word and represents that persons thoughts and beliefs and mannerisms and who they may really be.

OMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I grew up in the sixties. I looked and talked like a hippie. I wore my hair long and parted in the middle, I wore love beads and tie dyed shirts and bell bottom jeans. To this day, I have yet to so much as smoke a marijuana cigarette. I just wanted to fit in with popular teen culture.

If only people would have the same attitude about GZ's pursuits to become a LE. imo

 

[katiewonders]

If only people would have the same attitude about GZ's pursuits to become a LE. imo

GZ really did just want to fit into his family's line of work, didn't he? IMO

 

[DeadCat]

I haven't been here since Wed, but the testimony Fri about the person screaming'help' on the 911 call. I can see why GZ would be screaming it, as it is obvious he was getting his azz kicked, but why would TM have been screaming it? Because GZ was chasing him? Because he was that afraid? But not afraid enough to high-tail it home? I just can't see TM screaming for help. I don't think GZ would have pulled the gun and held it on TM for that long, while he was screaming and then decided to shot. Doesn't make sense to me.

Great post! This is the part that gets me and convinces me that GZ was the one yelling. Can anyone describe a scenario where TM would have been screaming for help, sounding in pain, but no marks were found on him? Who screams repeatedly with a gun put on them? Wouldn't they be quiet and do whatever told? I haven't watched the trial itself (reading here for updates). Can anyone repeat what the State's theory is to explain how TM would have been the one screaming?
JMO

 

[popsicle]

No. They are are going to do a reenactment but it won't be animated, it will be Ms Hora and MoM acting it out.

Ty. :seeya:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So Serino did not believe that GZ was denying it was his voice.. just a comment about how odd it was to hear his voice and his voice just sounded different on recordings.. Just like I am sure we all have... JMO

 

[William N]

THANK YOU. I logged in specifically to say thank you for this. I'm so very tired of people claiming TM was violent based on some totally unverified tweets, but who will completely ignore GZ's actual police record that documents a history of violent actions. It's completely frustrating.

IMO people "claim TM was violent" based on the head injuries GZ received when TM slammed his head into concrete.

Again, TM is NOT the defendant, meaning his past can come into evidence.

 

[Nezumi]

However we know it is used in court all the time. Why because it is written word and represents that persons thoughts and beliefs and mannerisms and who they may really be.

OMO

If I'm not mistaken, don't Defense Teams and Prosecutors also use prospsective juror's social media pages to make judgements about their characters and suitability for service?