George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread #10 Mon. July 8

[Elley Mae]

The lead detective in George Zimmerman's second-degree murder case testified Monday that Trayvon Martin's father told him that screams for help on a 911 call weren't his son's.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/zimmerman-trial-defense-continue-its-case

At the meeting, when Tracy Martin listened to the 911 recording and was asked if it was his son, Tracy Martin said "no," Serino said.

"He looked away and under his breath he said 'no'," Serino said.

Another investigator, Office Doris Singleton, backed up Serino's account of Tracy Martin's initial reaction to the 911 call.

 

[cityslick]

So when GZ told the Physician's assistant that he trained in MMA 3 days a week for 3 hours a day, what was he talking about?

According to this witness, just because you are training doesn't mean you actually know how to fight.

 

[William N]

I even asked before, on hearing my own voice on someone's answering machine. I actually asked, incredulous, is that ME? Your own voice doesn't sound the same to everyone else as it does to you inside your head.

if he were trying to pretend that was him on the recording, it's highly unlikely GZ would have said that doesn't sound like me. IMHO

IMO still another strong indication of GZ's innocence of the charges.

 

[rob]

So when GZ told the Physician's assistant that he trained in MMA 3 days a week for 3 hours a day, what was he talking about?

I'm thinking it was part of a diet/exercise plan. Look how much smaller GZ was then, than now. And obviously, before, he was as heavy as now.
Question- has his attorneys stated what his weight was at the time of the incident?

 

[sorrell skye]

IMO, GZ must have been a lousy grappling student.

Many years ago when I was much younger, I was in a relationship with a man who turned out to be a volatile, violent man. I'll always remember the day he flew into a rage at me & pinned me to the ground, choking me & screaming at me. At that time, I was in excellent physical condition, but I had zero training in wrestling/grappling/MMA style fighting, or any kind of fighting, for that matter. To use this witness's terminology, he "mounted" me at the waist while he choked me.

With no training whatsoever (armed with only my desire to survive the attack), I was able to bring my right leg up & wrap it around his head, and I squeezed his head between my thighs with all my might, breaking his choke-hold on my neck. After that, I raised my fist & punched him as hard as I could in the face (as it turned out, I punched him the eye). I released my leg-hold on him, and he retreated.

My attacker was only a couple of inches taller than me, and slender built. Nevertheless, as a female, I was able to overpower him and gain the advantage when he attacked me & mounted me & was choking me.

Based on my personal experience, this witness's testimony hasn't persuaded me that GZ didn't have other possible options (other than deadly force involving a firearm) during the altercation.

Of course, my experience is an anecdotal one, and isn't necessarily comparable to this case. This witness has testified that GZ was "fat" and had "little muscle", so this could be the reason why GZ was unable to overpower TM without using his firearm. Having said that, it's amazing what a person is capable of when they are in terror & believe their life is being threatened, even when they're not armed with a firearm.

I'm committed to keeping an open mind during this trial, but I must say that this witness hasn't demonstrated (to me) that GZ had no other options than to shoot.

 

[Zuri]

I am undecided on this case. I have some questions and I am not being snarky.
Why would you carry a gun to go grocery shopping?
Could GZ possibly put a hand on TM or attempted to grab his sweatshirt, subsequently arising in a fight? If so, who would be considered the aggressor?
How long after GZ NEN call did the police arrive?
If GZ did not have a gun, would this have been considered an "old fashioned butt whooping"? Would TM have been arrested?
Thank you for answering these questions. Please, no snark intended or welcomed. They are just questions I have.

 

[gxm]

I assist with MMA at our gym. My son fights. This witness is a friend of GZ as well as owner of the gym. To me he's got reason to not show GZ as an MMA expert to show him as a victim here and not the aggressor. But, whether or not GZ was an MMA expert, with the frequency he "trained"- witness states, approx 6 hours a week...he could easily defend himself against an untrained person wrestling, grappling, and striking him. IMO

Also, now makes me curious as to if anyone has inquired about his last training day and whether his "injuries" could have been from that training and not TM but actually reopened or aggravated by their altercation. Unless I missed it.

This witness seems to really want to testify to George's mental state rather than his athletic ability..

I work out for about five hours a week, a combination of "heavy" lifting (heavy for me), kickboxing, HIIT, and yoga. Not only am I not an athlete, most people would look at me and never guess I invest that much time pursuing fitness. Some of us just aren't born to be athletes and we muddle through as best we can and hope we're making some progress health-wise. As per this witness, GZ was "soft," and didn't have a lot of muscle. GZ is not a physically strong person. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[Mahouston69]

You know, I think that this witness is extremely credible..

Why ? Because it does him no favors to have someone come to his gym that he could not help become and expert... OMO

Compared to how GZ looked at the time of the shooting...to now. Seems to MMA training was effective and he actually is not being honest about GZ state of athleticism, Bmi, or abilitity.

 

[?noanswer]

I'm thinking it was part of a diet/exercise plan. Look how much smaller GZ was then, than now. And obviously, before, he was as heavy as now.
Question- has his attorneys stated what his weight was at the time of the incident?

Didn't hear an exact weight, but this witness said he weighed in excess of 250 lbs. when he started and lost between 50 & 80. Had not been involved in the class for a couple of months until sometime in 01-12. Don't know if he might have gained any lbs. during his 2 month hiatus.

JMO

 

[William N]

I am undecided on this case. I have some questions and I am not being snarky.
Why would you carry a gun to go grocery shopping?
Could GZ possibly put a hand on TM or attempted to grab his sweatshirt, subsequently arising in a fight? If so, who would be considered the aggressor?
How long after GZ NEN call did the police arrive?
If GZ did not have a gun, would this have been considered an "old fashioned butt whooping"? Would TM have been arrested?
Thank you for answering these questions. Please, no snark intended or welcomed. They are just questions I have.

IMO if GZ hadn't had a gun, he would be dead.

 

[Isabelle]

So, GZ is soft, fat and can't fight...ouch!

I guess that's enough reason to carry a gun loaded and ready to fire!


IN MY OPINION

Who added the "IN MY OPINION"? I would think that I prefaced the statement with "I guess" would be a statement of opinion. Thanks

 

[Nezumi]

I am undecided on this case. I have some questions and I am not being snarky.
Why would you carry a gun to go grocery shopping?
Could GZ possibly put a hand on TM or attempted to grab his sweatshirt, subsequently arising in a fight? If so, who would be considered the aggressor?
How long after GZ NEN call did the police arrive?
If GZ did not have a gun, would this have been considered an "old fashioned butt whooping"? Would TM have been arrested?
Thank you for answering these questions. Please, no snark intended or welcomed. They are just questions I have.

Zuri, I think (based on the number of 911 calls in this area that someone linked to earlier) that the neighborhood was not especially safe. GZ had a cc permit and his weapon was licensed. I would speculate that he probably carried no matter where he was going and he was perfectly within his legal right to do so.

According to RJ's testimony, it would seem that TM doubled back to confront GZ and attacked him. Since he was the aggressor, he would be guilty of an assault so yes, I supposed he could/would have been arrested if the police had arrived sooner.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Compared to how GZ looked at the time of the shooting...to now. Seems to MMA training was effective and he actually is not being honest about GZ state of athleticism, Bmi, or abilitity.

I think if anything it may have been helping him manage his weight but he was not fit then. Fitter than he is now, which shows me that he is not exercising now at all.

I think he is like me. Without physical activity of some sort, I could gain 6 lbs eating salad in a week.. I have to work out...

I think he was smaller but still soft. He certainly did not look muscular at all at the time of the event to me..

OMO

 

[kimlynn]

Was TM involved in MMA?


JMO

No,but he did film (as young folks do) two homeless men wrestling over a bike.

IMO

 

[cityslick]

I guess that's enough reason to carry a gun loaded and ready to fire!

He was licensed to carry a gun. Why does his legally able to carry a gun used as an argument against him. Even I'm not a gun owner, but if he was within his rights, so be it. It shouldn't be a strike against him that he had and was able to carry a gun.

 

[sickofitAll]

You can definitely get an arm lock from your back...triangle...

You would need be really flexible and somewhat skilled jiu-jitsu practitioner...

 

[gxm]

Compared to how GZ looked at the time of the shooting...to now. Seems to MMA training was effective and he actually is not being honest about GZ state of athleticism, Bmi, or abilitity.

IIRC, the PA who examined GZ after the fight called him "obese." He may have looked more fit than he does now but IMO that's probably because he is now morbidly obese. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[kimlynn]

Why wouldn't she be allowed to testify in a murder trial? Rachel Jeantel was the last one on the phone with the victim, just a few minutes before he was shot and killed.

Unfortunately, the prosecution can't pick the witnesses to the crime. She was 18 at the time of this crime, and obviously she isn't as worldly as many. But, that has no bearing on the crime. I'm sure the prosecution wishes it was some lawyer, doctor, or some other professional on the phone at the time. Just because she isn't worldly and is different in some eyes, doesn't mean she should be further demeaned here. I feel bad for her. You could see her pain when she was talking about her friend being shot and killed.

I think it's long overdue to stop picking on this witness! Especially her at WS. Rachel Jeantel is not on trial. JMO

Thank you. Her reading ability has nothing to do with hearing as far as I know.
It will be a sad day when people are judged based only on the ability to read.
IMO

 

[Beyond Belief]

Well, I didn't find that testimony a surprise. And that cow thingy the MOO

 

[gxm]

He was licensed to carry a gun. Why does his legally able to carry a gun used as an argument against him. Even I'm not a gun owner, but if he was within his rights, so be it. It shouldn't be a strike against him that he had and was able to carry a gun.

I agree. And I'm an anti-gun liberal! The law is the law and GZ was not breaking the law by legally carrying a gun. JMO. OMO. MOO.