George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #12 Wed July 10

[cityslick]

The only "evidence" defence have that TM was instigator is that of GZ. IMO

And what evidence does that state have?

It's called reasonable doubt, and there is so much of it in this trial that it's laughable.

 

[DIBSY]

No it does not fear may start when you have a male following you in a truck and then on foot, and please fear was on TM's part that night not GZ'z he had the upper hand he knew the police were coming and he had a gun IMO

Amen to that. GZ was in the wrong from the get go for following who he called a " suspect ", for ignoring the request to not follow TBM and fabricating that he would stop doing it, in his reply...by not waiting for the police, HE was always calling, to arrive and taking matters into his own incompetant hands.

His gunshot Victim is dead..but that isn't enough for George Zimmerman, he wants to keep on until he destroys TBM's family and all hopes of justice for their son..Then he can have more fun with the hundreds of thousands of Dollars he and Shellie have collected from their admiring public.As well as reap more Rewards for What he did with the Profits from the books written by his father and the one by his friends.
Thus, George Zimmerman is being Rewarded for shooting TBM dead.
What decent parent could be A-OK with that...not this one.... All in my opinion

 

[kimlynn]

No it does not fear may start when you have a male following you in a truck and then on foot, and please fear was on TM's part that night not GZ'z he had the upper hand he knew the police were coming and he had a gun IMO

I think the confrontation happened in large part because GZ knew he had the gun as back up,and he seemed determined to make sure that TM didn't escape before the police arrived.
I don't think he would have even gotten out of his car if not for his having had a weapon.
He also seemed to view TM as an adverary before the fight.In the Sean Hannity interview he mentions that he thought TM was trying to intimidate him (hand in waistband) vs TM actually having a weapon.
He views TM as young (age description) to the dispatcher and "I don't know where this kid is"
He knew that TM had ran so he probably thought in the back of his mind that he could handle TM and also in the back of his mind (IMO) was the thought of his weapon.
IMO

 

[Mrs.g]

It is. If he started the fight with GZ it is assault and led to the eventual fatal shot. And also then it does show that GZ did in fact act in self defense.

IMO, But wouldn't TM words to GZ be, "why are you following me?" That is not assault IMO. There is nothing threatening about that. Correct me if I am wrong about what TM said to GZ.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

IMO, lets say if TM went to confront GZ... that's not a crime. So if you believe RJ's testimony you'd have to consider the "get off, get off" comment made by TM. So does that prove that GZ was the person who first put his hands on TM? Just wondering what you think.

Well if he went to confront him he was obviously angry and not afraid imo. I don't think for a second GZ put his hands on TM. GZ knew the ropes of gun ownership and I don't see him starting a fight when he has a gun. Jmo but people who carry concealed are not going to do that. jmo.

 

[William N]

So it turns out GZ was right about the drug use and TM did have a violent past and was comfortable with violence, yet that's somehow not coming in...even with all the evidence pointing to TM assaulting GZ? Is this judge serious? Imo

This would have happened if TM had succeeded in killing GZ that night and was now being tried for GZ's murder. Still another illustration of how TM is being treated as the defendant and the reversal in roles.

In other words IMO, the prosecution is acting like the defense and vice versa.

 

[m00c0w]

IMO GZ is quoting TM as making two of the corniest things out there in Grade B movies -"You're gonna die tonight Motha******" and "you got me" - no 17year old hip young kid would ever say stuff like that.

Just high drama for effect and not real at all. As a Canadian and anti-gun person I find this case horrendous but when I read/heard those GZ say those two things I actually laughed out loud.

Not intending to be snarky or personally attacking when I say this:

Perhaps your nationality and lack of familiarity with the urban cultures in the United States lead to your opinion. I grew up in Atlanta, and went to schools in which I was in the vast minority as a white male. I have no trouble at all believing that these things may have been said - especially the first phrase.

 

[Overuled]

So it turns out GZ was right about the drug use and TM did have a violent past and was comfortable with violence, yet that's somehow not coming in...even with all the evidence pointing to TM assaulting GZ? Is this judge serious? Imo

I kind of thought it was self defense a long time ago but I waited to see and hear what the state was going to come up with and they still haven't proved their side.

So I jumped off the fence and landed on the defense side. Could the judge have know about tm behaviors and violence all along? There were many things that came out about text messages, fighting, gun use and "purple drank" last year- just to touch the surface- and I'm sure many of us waited till the state rested to draw a conclusion. IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

We know by RJ's testimony (If one believes her, and I do) that TM was "In back of" the house where he was visiting. Furthermore, RJ says she heard TM ask GZ why he was following him and GZ respond by asking why TM was there. She does not say she heard who threw the first punch. IMO TM had every right to ask why he was being followed. According to RJ this exchange took place "Behind" the house where TM was staying. That belies the theory that TM "Doubled back," to anywhere. She claims to have heard TM say, "Get off, get off." TM would not be telling himself to "Get off."

It's quite clear to me. IMO

The "get off, get off" ....was ONLY remembered after speaking with Trayvon's parent and lawyers...so I question this as the truth. Also..........IF DeeDee thought Trayvon was in trouble....WHY run and hide?? Not inform anyone that her good friend was in trouble?

 

[cityslick]

IIRC there's a nurse on the jury. I've posted below my thoughts on GZ's head injuries, or lack there of. I can only hope the nurse feels the same way as I do. I was listening to the yelling last night on the tap and there's no real change in the volume/tone etc no is there any sounds of 'impact' ie ow, ouch etc as TM 'apparently' hit GZ.. If your head was being hit against the pavement or you were being beat and taking impact, I don't believe for a second all someone would or could shout is help.

The defense has not shown this self-defense to me by any stretch of the imagination. I would at this stage go for manslaughter...

Just for clarification, the defense doesn't have to prove anything, just show reasonable doubt. Plenty of that here.

 

[Sonya610]

A number of people on this forum discuss having witnessed fights, shootings, all kinds of violent things.

So all of this is leading up to this question: Is it possible that I believe GZ is guilty because I have never seen a thing like this?

I have only seen urban fights and beat downs on video (there are many such videos online, often urban youth videotape their attacks/fights just to post online). I do think if someone has NOT seen the vicious and overwhelmingly fast manner in which those attacks can occur one cannot understand how it could happen to a 30 year old man like Zimmerman and how he could be so overcome by it.

If you watch some real videos of similar fights/attacks you would have a much better understanding regarding the viewpoints of those that believe ZM was likely attacked and truly fighting for his life.

IMO.

 

[gxm]

IMO, the most important evidence was the forensics. And, IMO, the forensics have corroborated GZ's story. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[Perthgirl62]

And what evidence does that state have?

It's called reasonable doubt, and there is so much of it in this trial that it's laughable.

They have the evidence that GZ left his vehicle and pursued TM

 

[Donnareit]

IMO these are facts that you may be using in your opinion that TM was raining blows down on GZ, I have been an abused woman know full well what raining blows feel like and what I looked like at the end of the abuse and GZ did not look anything like I did, I also had my head pounded into the floor and yes I did think I might lose my life but my injuries were so far past what GZ sustained that night that in no way do I believe that he was in threat of losing his life so this is from a voice of experience GZ did not look like he had blows rained down on him and did not look like he was in threat of losing his life imo

Sorry you had to endure this. Thanks for sharing your personal experience.
:moo:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

To be fair, neither is GZ's alleged violence or prescription drug use. IMO.

What's wrong with prescription drug use? I don't think abuse has been alleged, and he showed no signs of it on the night he defended himself from TM or the police would have tested him (no probable cause). imo.

 

[m00c0w]

Bolded by me

Translation " Trayvon told me the man following him is at the back of his Dad's house"

Negative. This was heavily clarified in the trial. Pretty much every sentence was repeated multiple times to ensure clarity.

:moo:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Bolded by me

Translation " Trayvon told me the man following him is at the back of his Dad's house"

No. She said that TRAYVON SAID THAT TRAYVON WAS AT THE
BACK of his DADDY"S house.. and that he did not see GZ anymore.

That is testimony.

 

[HMSHoney24]

Especially when we have 14-17 yr olds all over the country for murder.

A 15yr. old (along with 3 others) was arrested just yesterday here in Osceola County for a rash of 14 shootings that happened within a weeks time (I believe week before last) that resulted in 2 deaths, one a 17yr. old walking to a bus stop, that is very near my home, to go to work. The boy (according to WKMG/Local 6), when asked why he shot the young man, said "for fun". The young man's fathers apparently purchased the gun for the 15yr. old because he was having "problems with some individuals".

Sigh...

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/bo...unty/-/1637132/20903078/-/tgi8m1/-/index.html

 

[cityslick]

Bolded by me

Translation " Trayvon told me the man following him is at the back of his Dad's house"

Forgot the follow up question as to why TM didn't run back to the house and RJ saying 'he was already at his house', meaning he didn't need to run back. He is referring to TM, not GZ. TM, according to RJ didn't even know where GZ was.

 

[kimlynn]

Yup, assuming TM knew GZ had a gun, which there is no evidence that shows he did.

If you hold the view that it was TM screaming that could point to his potentially being shown a weapon or having one held on him.
Of course we have no evidence as George is the only real witness due to the darkness of the area.
IMO