George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #12 Wed July 10

[cityslick]

The point is that he picked a fight here and it cost him his life. It fits with the evidence as per the state.[/

He didn't and it doesn't.

States witness never said "went up to", "went back", went after"
States witness said BY his Dad's house, not AT, or IN, or ON the porch.
States witness HEARD "why are you following me"
You believe nothing else States witness says that doesn't support GZ testimony.

AFTER GZ "trailed" (defense witness testified GZ said he was "trailing" the "suspect") TM to BY TM's Dad's house.

An area he had no business being in after dark, if TM didn't...
he wasn't NW, or LE, or the security guard.

GZ THOUGHT he was...but can't and didn't follow any procedure normally followed by NW or LE

Trailed is my new favorite word...

The problem with this and what the state is now facing, is how do they convince the jury to believe one witness (RJ) and ignore all the other witnesses and evidence.

 

[PrairieWind]

No. The only way up when you are being pounded into the ground is to shoot and defend your person.

By your own argument. If TM saw the gun as GZ said or touched his side near it It had to be exposed or felt which would make sense that TM made an adjustment to be able to have access to it.

I think this is correct. GZ had said that TM felt his gun and reached for it. If TM was straddling GZ, he would indeed have felt the gun. To reach for it, TM would need to lift up a little off of GZ.

 

[Zuri]

Mr. Root has been the first witness, IMO, to raise reasonable doubt. I have remained neutral on this case as best I could. As a mother, the loss of any child, is tragic and heartbreaking. I truly don't believe TM would have fought GZ if he knew GZ had a loaded gun. But then again, I don't know. TM is dead and GZ will never have a normal life of obscurity. Both are victims, IMO.

 

[gxm]

There is no evidence of that IMO

Yes, there is. It's in RJ's testimony. TM had made it home. In order for the confrontation to take place where it did, TM had to walk back to confront GZ. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The prosecution does not seem to have a theory of the case. This has become very evident to me over the past couple of days when they have brought up new scenarios on every cross exam.

That is no way to overcome reasonable doubt. IMO.

Yes. First it was the screams had to be TM. Well not so much.. Then it was the witness testimony and yet that all says it happened as GZ said.

Then there is... Ill will.. Not proven to me.

Still waiting.

 

[Moonie]

Haven't been posting, only lerking on this thread, and can barely keep up. Noticed that emotions are running very high..

I've followed the HLN coverage of the GZ trial everyday/all day & into the night. Imo, there will be an acquittal. If not, a reversal unless there is political pressure/interference from the US Attorney/Justice Dept, due to likely repercussions and the aftermath of an acquittal verdict..imo

New PSA released ahead of Zimmerman verdict
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/article/319401/4/New-PSA-released-ahead-of-Zimmerman-verdict

I'm not so sure about that. Anything could happen, but if it were me on the jury I would have a hard time getting around the fact that GZ set these events into motion with his own reckless actions. You never know what a jury will do. I have served before on a week long case. It was exhausting. And I can tell you that the verdict that the media predicted we would come up with was not the one that was handed down. God bless those jurors. This is a hard case.

 

[ShadyLady]

Also....Zimmerman's first reaction was NOT to grab his gun and shoot....it was to cry for help.

And Trayvon even after people came out from their homes and shouted at them ....continued the assault.....AND after quite a few punches doing damage.

Speaks volumes to me.

 

[Overuled]

Mr. Root did quite well IMO - I would bet this will not be his last trial. I'm sure he was well-aware it wouldn't be a picnic up there.

His patience was remarkable- he knew what he was up against. The prosecution is walking on egg shells anyway plus it looks like they never proved anything. moo

 

[DIBSY]

I find this very hard to believe. Can you please post a link to the gym's ad with GZ?

The link is in every post I make in my signature. See below, please.

 

[daisy7]

Good morning, peeps! I've been dealing with some RL stuff today and am way behind. I know that the animation and Trayvon's texts are not allowed, but can someone please give me the cliff notes of what else has happened today? I really hate to ask, and TIA!!! :blowkiss:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm not so sure about that. Anything could happen, but if it were me on the jury I would have a hard time getting around the fact that GZ set these events into motion with his own reckless actions. You never know what a jury will do. I have served before on a week long case. It was exhausting. And I can tell you that the verdict that the media predicted we would come up with was not the one that was handed down. God bless those jurors. This is a hard case.

If that were true. If what he did was reckless he would have been charged with that. That is not the case.. He is being charged with willful killing of TM. Not in PM but because he had ill will toward him and there is no proof of that.

 

[defense101]

But the people TM was texting with could have been called to testify. If the defense had been given the texts in a timely manner.

All I'm saying is that there is case law in Florida that can be used to appeal this judge's decision regarding the text messages. And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the defense had already filed something this morning.


IMO.

Unless they are in the same room they cannot prove that TM sent those texts.IMO

 

[cityslick]

I get your point. But IMO thinking TM three the first punch because GZ said so is also a fallacy.


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Ok fair, but take that out and what do you have left? How has the state proven that GZ was the aggressor if no one knows who threw the first punch? Even RJ's testimony is not entirely clear on how the altercation is started.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Here is the problem. TM has been 'baby-fied' due to how this case was in the media from the very beginning. That the idea that a 17 year old, unarmed teenager who was in fit condition could not harm/kill someone else simply because he was 17 or unarmed is fallacy to me. The idea that this 17 year old could not have acted out against that 'creepy white ****' and threw the first punch simply because he's a 'kid' is also fallacy.

I totally agree! Having a brother who was not a nice kid from early on- people couldn't believe that he could commit the types of violence that he did because "he's so young" and "so charming" and "such a nice looking boy." But despite all those traits-and his innocent appearing appearance - he more than often was one who sought out trouble - deliberately. And he often got more trouble than he bargained for. I'm not in any way condoning what happened to Trayvon Martin but I do understand from lifelong experiences with my brother that if you play with fire sometimes you get burned badly.

 

[Overuled]

Also....Zimmerman's first reaction was NOT to grab his gun and shoot....it was to cry for help.

And Trayvon even after people came out from their homes and shouted at them ....continued the assault.....AND after quite a few punches doing damage.

Speaks volumes to me.

IMO I believe that gz wanted desperately to get out from under tm- he knew the police were on their way and could have been right around the corner- but the more tm banged his head the more he thought he would passout or even die. Self defense imo.

 

[qwerty2013]

BBM It is possible. The teen who punched his coach in the head once and the coach went into a coma and died.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-jail-killing-soccer-referee-punch-head.html

That could happen, but the probability of that happening must be taken into account, i.e. what % of all quick one punches ends in death? I would guess the likelihood is very, very low, and reasonable expectations remain that most of the millions of single punches that occur every minute every day do not result in death, even if an occasional one does. IMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

As a country this trial has shown me we are in deep S***.

A boy that doesn't come home....and father does not call POLICE ASAP....girlfriend that hides....because it was "JUST A FIGHT"????

So fighting on streets is ok in her book?

Couldn't agree more

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Also....Zimmerman's first reaction was NOT to grab his gun and shoot....it was to cry for help.

And Trayvon even after people came out from their homes and shouted at them ....continued the assault.....AND after quite a few punches doing damage.

Speaks volumes to me.

Yes. This puts to rest all the GZ was a big bully with a gun theory. If that were the case, TM would have never gotten him on the ground.

And we know from state witness testimony he did.

I think if anything it shows that GZ waited until he really felt he had no other choice.

 

[missmazzy]

You are assuming that TM would have stopped fighting when GZ pulled the gun. IMO

I would think that if TM saw GZ pull the gun (which I have no idea), he would do anything he could to get away from the situation. I would (but then again I don't beat people up).

 

[ShadyLady]

Unless they are in the same room they cannot prove that TM sent those texts.IMO

BUT...it was ok to use Travis' texts????