George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[Arishia]

Yes, I'm more interested in the legal issues and outcome of this case. Many states have concealed carry permits and it is legal for people to carry concealed weapons. From what I've read, most people who have these permits are very mindful of where they carry their weapon - they don't just carry them anywhere. But when they carry them, they are prepared to use them, if the situation warrants it.

A man uses his weapon in defense of his life and a young man is killed. What will be the legal outcome? It is very interesting.

I don't see how - in our racially charged society, as evidenced by these boards being shut down last year - race can be ignored. Especially when our President stated that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon. OMG!

How either men looked had nothing to do with this case! IMO

I'm a little miffed at GZ for advancing with his weapon toward what he perceived to be a suspicious person when he knew police were on the way and no person was in eminent danger, because I see that as irresponsible gun ownership. I'm a big supporter of gun rights, concealed carry, and even open carry.
Yeah... As far as the President saying that... I took that to mean that all people, especially our children, are precious. Not that TM was above the rest of us or anything.*
ETA: *Then he goes and does the drones in the US crap, and the NSA program crap... and who knows what else... grrrr

 

[m00c0w]

I didn't know what the term "Cracker" meant other than something like a Ritz or Saltine, but now I see that it is the new term for "white honkey". I don't see that as a racial slur at all, I think it's kind of funny.

FTR, and just clarifying, it's not new.

And having grown up where I have, it actually irritates me when the word is used in reference to me. I would never think of using the N-word or other epithets. The offender would, I guarantee you, get all kinds of righteous if I were to use such a word. However, "cracker" is apparently no big deal even though it's used with the same hostility and... endearment... as someone else using a different epithet.

 

[DIBSY]

Jodi seemed to be ambidextrous too!

True enough and I just heard on HLN that it was a mere two minutes between the time GZ phoned the non-emergency services ( wasn't worried it was serious cause he had the GUN :moo: ) and the first Emergency 911 calls reporting the violence.

Not enough minutes/seconds for TM to retrieve his fallen phone and report a blessed thing. :maddening::maddening::moo:

 

[gxm]

Is there anyone else here who isn't interested in the race component of this case, but is interested in the legal issues, like me?

I'm very interested in the political aspects of this case, and that the state would be compelled to put GZ on trial for murder without the evidence to back up their charges. So I'm interested in the "media circus" part of this case and I'm hoping it is not an indicator of things to come. The overreach here, on the state's part, scares the %^&@! outta me.

And, FTR, and to put my personal bias out front, I am a very anti-gun liberal. I really don't think civilians should be walking around with guns. Unfortunately, Florida law does not agree with me. (Not trying to start a gun debate, just trying to stay honest.)

 

[sacrablue]

Fighting for his life?

 

[ncgramma]

According to the FS it does matter who is the aggressor. Here is the statute for you to read and to conclude.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.041.html

Please note section 2, UNLESS and section a:

This is the Florida statute on self-defense:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

 

[m00c0w]

True enough and I just heard on HLN that it was a mere two minutes between the time GZ phoned the non-emergency services ( wasn't worried it was serious cause he had the GUN :moo: ) and the first Emergency 911 calls reporting the violence.

Not enough minutes/seconds for TM to retrieve his fallen phone and report a blessed thing. :maddening::maddening::moo:

Uh.

I'm not sure where they got that timeline from.

It was two minutes from when Zimmerman exited his vehicle to the time he hung up with NEN, and was clearly not assaulting anyone.

 

[missmazzy]

I don't know what these pictures show. They both need authentication to hold up in a court of law. The strange nose and straight-lined blood flow on the back of the head look hinkey to me. I hope whoever took them will be up on the stand to explain their techniques.

Those pics were taken by a cop on the scene at the request of one of the witnesses. She testified yesterday.

 

[iluvmua]

So just to be clear, you think a complete police investigation wouldn't include talking to the person the deceased was speaking to on the phone at the time the altercation first took place?

She did not get to talk to Police because she waited 3 whole weeks and went straight to Crump.

And I wonder why the Prosecution did their interview in Trayvon Martin's mother's house with their lawyers, Rachel etc?

Could it be that they are trying to come up with a story in order to get George convicted with NO real evidence?????

JMO

 

[cityslick]

I don't know what these pictures show. They both need authentication to hold up in a court of law. The strange nose and straight-lined blood flow on the back of the head look hinkey to me. I hope whoever took them will be up on the stand to explain their techniques.

I don't think the officer who took the photos has testified yet but the witness who the camera belonged to did. She said she asked to take a picture of him because she didn't want to walk up to identify him.

 

[Karmady]

If he's found not guilty his lawyers might start with MSNBC for their initial reports of the incident.

He already has a complaint against NBC. It's captioned in the 18th Judicial Circuit Seminole County. Not sure it's been filed since it appears that court's site doesn't give public access to court documents. Or at least I can't find the link. Maybe someone else can.

 

[gxm]

I don't know what these pictures show. They both need authentication to hold up in a court of law. The strange nose and straight-lined blood flow on the back of the head look hinkey to me. I hope whoever took them will be up on the stand to explain their techniques.

The crime scene photographer, IIRC, testified two days ago. She confirmed GZ's injuries on cross examination.

 

[Jhpuffy]

She did not get to talk to Police because she waited 3 whole weeks and went straight to Crump.

And I wonder why the Prosecution did their interview in Trayvon Martin's mother's house with their lawyers, Rachel etc?

Could it be that they are trying to come up with a story in order to get George convicted with NO real evidence?????

JMO

My point is the Police did not contact her. Don't you watch the First 48? :floorlaugh:

But yeah I can agree I don't like how her interview was in front of the family.

 

[DIBSY]

I'm a little miffed at GZ for advancing with his weapon toward what he perceived to be a suspicious person when he knew police were on the way and no person was in eminent danger, because I see that as irresponsible gun ownership. I'm a big supporter of gun rights, concealed carry, and even open carry.
Yeah... As far as the President saying that... I took that to mean that all people, especially our children, are precious. Not that TM was above the rest of us or anything.

Couldn't agree more and as I think I mentioned before I and others around the Planet think that in most other states GZ would have been tried for murder much much sooner.

Plus I adamantly feel that GZ should have been screened for possible psychological issues before receiving a permit. To me he sounds paranoid on other of his NEN calls....IMO I have to wonder if his Judge/Magistrate father played a role in his getting licenced given the sort of medication he was prescribed? Not an allegation folks, just wondering.

 

[magnolia]

From Florida law:

776.041Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
----------------------

If Trayvon had Zimmerman pinned down the entire time as the last witness testified and was beating his a$$ and Zimmerman was yelling for help and none came, then use of deadly force was met by Florida law.

He didn't even have to believe he was going to die according to the law. He just had to believe he was going to suffer "great bodily harm".

And this is even if he provoked the aggression towards himself.

That is the law. Like it or not.

Thank-You twall.

BBM--You are right. Like it or not. That is the Law.

 

[gxm]

I don't think the officer who took the photos has testified yet but the witness who the camera belonged to did. She said she asked to take a picture of him because she didn't want to walk up to identify him.

And the crime scene photographer has already testified. She confirmed GZ's injuries. It is amazing to me that people are still unwilling to accept the fact that GZ was, indeed, injured and that the injuries were quite visible.

 

[gracielee]

Isn't this hearsay?

 

[shelley921]

FTR, and just clarifying, it's not new.

And having grown up where I have, it actually irritates me when the word is used in reference to me. I would never think of using the N-word or other epithets. The offender would, I guarantee you, get all kinds of righteous if I were to use such a word. However, "cracker" is apparently no big deal even though it's used with the same hostility and... endearment... as someone else using a different epithet.

I'm over 50 and I lived in Alabama and Texas as a kid and yes "cracker" is a old term...and I recall it as offensive.

 

[missmazzy]

Geeze...did everyone in Sanford witness this?

 

[cityslick]

And the crime scene photographer has already testified. She confirmed GZ's injuries. It is amazing to me that people are still unwilling to accept the fact that GZ was, indeed, injured and that the injuries were quite visible.

There is a lot of facts/evidence/witnesses that seemed to be dismissed. I don't make judgements on emotion, I base it off evidence and right now the evidence do not show GZ guilty of 2nd degree murder.