:moo:I agree: To me, it didn't sound like a kid. To be perfectly honest, I tried to think about what George Zimmerman would sound like if he was in fear for his life, and yelling in a panic. I'm no expert, but that's what it sounds like, to me. :twocents:
The Prosecution was able to just illustrate how silly it was for GZ to act like he was trying to see a street name....given there are only three streets in the entire place. As witnessed to by LE. Puts paid to his silly claim that he knew every single resident among the 100 or so who dwelled there, given he claims he didn't know the name of one of only three streets. IMO
I think imo that she heard very little. What would have been most enlightening was the influences that surrounded her...such as state's interview with the mom in the room, audio tapes made by crump and sent to the news...purporting things untrue .like age..relationship ..IMO Ms Jeantel was not as informed as the pros tried to make her out to be....and was used
Someone claimed that GZ was not athletic, I thought it was mentioned in one of the previous threads, he had practiced MMA for about 5 months at the time of the murder.
The neighbors saw what appeared to be fight or assault between two men. The neighbors didn't recognize EITHER man. It was dark. They (the neighbors hearing this) obviously did NOT have weapons.
What I don't get is.....Martin was a 17 year old football player....he was no doubt VERY fast and plenty strong.
Zimmerman is a 30 year old overweight and obviously not that athletic guy.
Martin was already near his own home. If Martin had wanted to AVOID a conflict with this "creepy ___ _____" that may be a rapist he could have simply sprinted and been gone. Either back to his house or somewhere else.
If Martin had NOT wanted to confront Zimmerman I just don't see how it could have happened. There is simply no way Zimmerman could have caught up to Martin especially since Martin was aware of him.
MOM: "We don't need to see any injuries, do we?"
Serino: "No."
MOM: "And yet he had many injuries."
(My effort at transcribing.)
Wow. Just wow. MOM is owning this cross. JMO. OMO. MOO.
I was not sure where that came from but even if he was studying it does not mean he mastered it or did it often. I studied yoga.. I still can't do it.
There are so many, "it wouldn't have happened, ifs". TM made his decisions and GZ made his. So sad. One life has ended before it should have and the other life is ruined. Four parents are needlessly grieving. But both TM and GZ were within their legal rights to make those decisions. Sometimes life and all it throws at us just sucks.I know that ncgramma, but many have said that this wouldn't have happened if TM hadn't "attacked" GZ. I think it wouldn't have happened if GZ knew where to keep his butt.....which was in his car. That is all personal opinion though, and my point is that it has yet to come out, IMO, whether or not that "attack" justified pulling a gun and killing another person. Until then I view TM as the victim here. MOO. :seeya:
Up to now.
The discrepancies haven't come up yet.
I agree, that would be an interesting side-story to this case. But IMHO, it really doesn't make a difference in the facts of this case.
I wonder what will come out when Crump is on the stand - although again, I don't think his involvement directly relates to the core of this case.
PW, I do the same thing, but more often in my car.
If I feel someone is following me I will meander around but NOT go to my house....will just keep driving until they go a different way. I know that sounds wacky, I doubt people are after me, but ya know how sometimes a car just seems to be going the same way as you for just a little too long?
Anyway, better safe than sorry!
Florida Law protects TM's actions to defend himself and stand his ground from an unidentified stalker with a weapon. The mere act of stalking him at night in the rain would lead a reasonable 17 year old in today's society in FLORIDA that he could be in danger.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html
He did not have to retreat from what he perceived as a threat continuing to follow him towards his family's home. He didn't. Whether or not he tried to disable/disarm/or knock out the person stalking him without any provoking physical contact is irrelevant according the the law. Seeing the weapon or reasonably fearing a person means to harm you justifies force and stand your ground.
I read that simply showing or pointing an unloaded gun in Florida carries a mandatory 3 years. I will go back and find the link if necessary.
I live in a gated community. I have five adult sons, 2 over 6'. They enter my home through the back sliding glass door, from a similar dog area such as this subdivision. IF they come during the day, the gates are open. IF they come at night, after dark they are closed and need a pin number to drive in or a pool key/gate key to come in the walk in gate, the outside is completely surrounded by very high cement walls. IF TM was walking in the subdivision he had to have a pin code or key. GZ had to know this.
IF they came over to visit after dark and walked back to my house from the front open parking spaces and my 30 year old hispanic neighbor across from me who is unfamiliar with them- stalked them from the front, as they walked in the gate, followed them down my sidewalk, and then approached them to ask them why they were in this complex.... yes, complaints are getting filed if one of my boys or husband doesn't sock the guy first. I would think instant creep. Keep in mind, in Florida and here in Cali. With gang and racial tensions, A Hispanic looking male in GZ age range doesn't exactly look safe and authoritative to TM either. IMO
GZ intiiated the course of events, by his suspicious and paranoid stalking. It is reasonable to believe he made a young boy in a unfamiliar area feel physically threatened and in danger. He approached TM on purpose with a weapon close enough to verbally communicate to him. I believe he tried to detain him when he would not do as he was told or answer questions he was asked. IMO
I keep reading he was the Neighborhood Watch Captain. Did I miss where someone appointed him as such. I thought it was determined he appointed himself and refused an offer to join LE neighborhood patrols etc. He was just a regular neighbor with no authority, no identification, no right to follow TM or shoot him. TM had every right to sock him in the face, and render him unable to continue to follow him or shoot him. He failed. Sadly.
Also, I read ( I will find the link if you make me) that he took Adderall for ADD. I am betting his dr also prescribed anti anxiety. I know my brother on Adderall was very mild, non hyper, focused, and didn't feel anything. Not happy, not sad, not anxious. That could explain his very level and matter of fact behaviors.
I am late for an appointment but just caught up and now probably behind again...
I'm not able to say what TM was feeling, although if I were in the same circumstance as he found himself, I would have been very uneasy. But how I would have felt isn't relevant. I can also state that if I were GZ, I would have been terrified and felt I was in grave and imminent danger. If GZ felt that way he was within his legal rights to protect himself in any way that he could. The evidence seems pretty clear to say that GZ was unable to protect himself physically given he was obviously on the losing end of this fight. What has surprised me is how long GZ waited before using the gun. He obviously knew he had it. Ah, the human mind and reasoning is so complex even when we do have facts instead supposition to work with.from what i read last night nite florida statutes, in don't think so, cuz it says that its the instigator that is guilty, but if, and imo of trayvon felt he was in eminent danger then by the statutes he was defending himself 0 so from what i understand, trayvon was allowed to defend himself and GZ can't claim not guilty and use self defense because he was the person who provoked the situation - imo
Florida Cases Section 776.041: Person Who "Initially Provoked" Incident May Not Claim Self Defense Section 776.041
Most children are taught if you feel in danger because of a stranger run into your home! If he was the one feeling in danger why not get to the safe place behind a door you can lock and call 911.
Not being psychic ... I haven't a clue what GZ would have done in that circumstance.If Trayvon did run, would GZ have followed him? IMO, most likely.