George Zimmerman's injuries #2

[belle3]

Are there any crime scene photos that show exactly where the beating would have taken place. Like I said, that U shaped looking bruise on his head came from some where.

 

[TorisMom003]

Are there any crime scene photos that show exactly where the beating would have taken place. Like I said, that U shaped looking bruise on his head came from some where.

My understanding, based on witness statements, is the "fight" did not occur in one place. It was an event that took place in multiple areas. I have not seen anything that pointed to exactly where the "beating" occured, only to where Trayvon lay dying.

 

[Sensei]

How do you know GZ is lying when you haven't even heard the story GZ gave to police?

Well unless Chief Lee was lying in his statement, we can be reasonably sure that the head banging was a part of his story as well as the sucker punch, it seems that those have been elements of the story from the beginning, but why he got out of his vehicle and where he was going when he was supposedly jumped, has changed.

As far as GZ's injuries, I am completely underwhelmed by the fact that he has them, since I could start a fight tonight and if I lose, I am going to have injuries...that says nothing at all as far as SYG. What I would like to know is how did TM manage to make all those injuries and yet not have one single solitary bruised knuckle, no evidence at all that he was scratching GZ's face, no skin, blood or dna under his nails, since those are positively scratches on his face, no indication that TM had punched anyone in the head, since that generally caused damage to the knuckles because there are a lot of bones and teeth in a face. No indication that GZ had been repeatedly punched since there did NOT appear to be a reddened area or any indication of a hand print, just the slightly swelling nose and blood, and to me that is just weird,

That leaves me with these peculiar facts, GZ does NOT appear to have had his head beat against concrete, and he was where he was, and the idea that he got there by looking for an address and not attempting to confront TM is simply not credible IMO.

So GZ has some injuries, but NO defensive wounds at all and TM has no wounds that could be considered as offensive wounds in fact except for the bullet wound he has nothing at all of significance since I can think of no way to get the abrasion below his knuckle from an offensive manouver.

This IMO is going to make self defense problematic for GZ.

 

[Karmady]

I would agree with this BUT not one witness has said they saw GZ's head being banged on the cement. So your whole point is rather moot, IMO. Either that, or you are actually bolstering the claim that his head was never banged...

I don't think anyone saw the whole thing. And only a couple saw it at all, most just heard it. And my point was that George had to think that the opposite could be true since had no way of knowing that it wasn't, and no reasonable basis to assume it, when he gave his initial statement. If he was lying, he could have left his options open on that detail while still claiming self defense. jmo

 

[HiHater]

My understanding, based on witness statements, is the "fight" did not occur in one place. It was an event that took place in multiple areas. I have not seen anything that pointed to exactly where the "beating" occured, only to where Trayvon lay dying.

With that said, shouldn't the whole thing have happened where Trayvon lay dying? Afaik, Trayvon and GZ exchanged words, then Trayvon punched GZ so hard that he fell to the ground. Trayvon then got on top of GZ and beat his head on the sidewalk repeatedly. GZ pulled out his gun to stop the attack. Bam. One spot.

jmo

 

[TorisMom003]

With that said, shouldn't the whole thing have happened where Trayvon lay dying? Afaik, Trayvon and GZ exchanged words, then Trayvon punched GZ so hard that he fell to the ground. Trayvon then got on top of GZ and beat his head on the sidewalk repeatedly. GZ pulled out his gun to stop the attack. Bam. One spot.

jmo

Honestly, who knows at this point. I have an easier time trying to decipher what excuse my daughters give me for something they have done wrong than trying to decipher what Zimmerman claims happened that night. When you have Zimmerman's spokespeople going to the media and telling what Zimmerman told them, and then that story changes repeatedly, there is a problem. I suppose Zimmerman feels that he is safer by letting others spin his tale for him then he can later claim that they were mistaken.

MOO

 

[Karmady]

I respectfully disagree with the description above of the SYG statute....there is a higher burden than that....but it certainly is a somewhat ambigious law.

Actually, the burden is quite a bit lower than that. There's needs to be a reasonable fear only of great bodily harm, not death. There is no need for injuries to have actually been sustained,, although that certainly helps depending on the circumstances. And the burden of proof on the defendant is a "mere preponderance" of the evidence.

 

[LynnM]

What is that supposed to mean?

I obviously can't reply for Suzi but I can for me. When discussing the evidence obviously we have what Zimmerman is reported to have told police. We don't have it directly but we do know some of it. He's saying he killed Trayvon in self defense, we know that. Witness number 13 I believe says that GZ says he was being beaten up. His family says that he was attacked by Trayvon when he was walking back to his car and I think it's reasonable to believe that George says the same given the police confirmation of the overall story as told in one of the local papers.

What we don't have is what Trayvon might have said if he had lived through the shooting. Since we don't know what that might have been, I think it's reasonable for us to try to figure it out. One poster commented on a point of GZ's story that if we don't have evidence to the contrary, then what GZ said happened is what happened!

With or without evidence to the contrary, the truth is still the truth. If GZ was the aggressor and no one saw that, it doesn't make GZ factually innocent, it just means that Trayvon can't tell his story and in the absence of other evidence that would show that, then GZ might be found not guilty. But the trial isn't until next year I'm sure and in the meantime I'm not willing to just let a man who killed an unarmed teenager whom by his own admission he did not see breaking any law off the hook at this point just because he says he's innocent. Especially since the evidence is clear to me that he had made up his mind that Trayvon was not just suspicious but was guilty, classifying him with the *advertiser censored**holes who get away.

I don't see any evidence that Trayvon was likely to want to sneak up to Zimmerman and sucker punch him all the time chatting on the phone. Zimmerman is the same guy who insists that the ATF officer assaulted him first in the 2005 incident when he wrote his 2009 application to the Civilian police academy and who insisted that his exgirlfriend was the one who assaulted HIM and not vice verse back in 2005. I think if he was the aggressor it isn't a stretch that he would lie and say he wasn't.

To sum up, Trayvon is dead and I want to figure out what HE might have been able to tell us had he lived.

 

[gxm]

With that said, shouldn't the whole thing have happened where Trayvon lay dying? Afaik, Trayvon and GZ exchanged words, then Trayvon punched GZ so hard that he fell to the ground. Trayvon then got on top of GZ and beat his head on the sidewalk repeatedly. GZ pulled out his gun to stop the attack. Bam. One spot.

jmo

No. An assault is not static. It is fluid, active. Just the force of the attacker's blows will send you reeling around the room, stumbling to the ground, scrabbling to get away. I can easily see GZ scrambling backwards trying to get away from TM.

JMO, OMO, and MOO.

 

[Sensei]

No. An assault is not static. It is fluid, active. Just the force of the attacker's blows will send you reeling around the room, stumbling to the ground, scrabbling to get away. I can easily see GZ scrambling backwards trying to get away from TM.

JMO, OMO, and MOO.

I can see an attack happening that way, what I cannot see is any reddened area or sign that GZ was ever punched. I know that one of our nurses was slapped last week and the reddened area remained on her face for about an hour, you could see the mark where the hand hit her, and she was hit by a geriatric alzheimers patient. There are no areas on GZ's face that would substantiate that he was punched or hit, and there are scratches, but there is no blood, skin or dna under TM's nails. And once again, if he was punched with such ferocity, then shouldn't there be some substantiating damage to the attackers hands? This whole thing makes no sense at all, and the few pictures of GZ tht we have where there is blood on his head, the blood dribbles down and snakes around his ear...which it would NOT do if he were on his back, it would only do that if he is up and his head is forward....

I can't tell anyone what did happen but I can say that IMO the story that he is telling about what happened is either not truthful or it is NOT the whole story. JMHO and stuff.

 

[HiHater]

No. An assault is not static. It is fluid, active. Just the force of the attacker's blows will send you reeling around the room, stumbling to the ground, scrabbling to get away. I can easily see GZ scrambling backwards trying to get away from TM.

JMO, OMO, and MOO.

That may be true, but that's not what is reported to have allegedly happened in this case. The force from the FIRST blow knocked GZ down, and Trayvon climbed on top and started slamming his head/beating him. He was able to move his head off the sidewalk before reaching for the gun. What does that say? That's not fluid. He was beaten for a full MINUTE with his head in generally the same place (the sidewalk). He supposedly had no recourse but to shoot...

 

[vlpate]

Are there any crime scene photos that show exactly where the beating would have taken place. Like I said, that U shaped looking bruise on his head came from some where.

Like he may have been hit with a phone, maybe?

 

[TorisMom003]

I don't recall the phone having blood on it from the doc dump. Also, from the photos of the crime scene that were released there are none with blood on the phone, that I can recall. There was suspected blood on Zimmerman's flashlight, the one not on the key ring, but that was never positively identified as blood or as to whose blood it was. At least it wasn't in the doc dump reports.

 

[suzihawk]

Like he may have been hit with a phone, maybe?

A picture of Trayvon's phone can be seen at the following link. It's flat and not horseshoe shaped. IMO

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/255747/250/Docs-shed-light-on-Trayvon-Martin-killing

 

[vlpate]

I saw bandages on his head...but honestly I wondered why they were there. We have all seen the pics.......I wondered if it was to hide the fact they were not that bad.

One of the cut needed several stitches, according to the emt who looked at GZ in the back of the squad car - that wouldn't be a "scratch", as many have said. JMO

 

[vlpate]

A picture of Trayvon's phone can be seen at the following link. It's flat and not horseshoe shaped. IMO

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/255747/250/Docs-shed-light-on-Trayvon-Martin-killing

The corner of the phone would make a a horseshoe imprint because of the edge of the cover.

 

[TorisMom003]

One of the cut needed several stitches, according to the emt who looked at GZ in the back of the squad car - that wouldn't be a "scratch", as many have said. JMO

Can you please link this? I do not recall reading in the EMT report that any stitches were required at all. I have this in my notes as to the narrative about Zimmerman that night:

Pt has abrasions to his forehead, and bleeding/tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding.

I see nothing from the EMT or the SFD that states that Zimmerman needed stitches.

link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

 

[suzihawk]

The corner of the phone would make a a horseshoe imprint because of the edge of the cover.

The "U" shaped imprint on Zimmerman's head appears larger and is nearly circular in shape. It wasn't made by the phone, which is smaller and flat. JMO

 

[Allusonz]

Can you please link this? I do not recall reading in the EMT report that any stitches were required at all. I have this in my notes as to the narrative about Zimmerman that night:

Pt has abrasions to his forehead, and bleeding/tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding.

I see nothing from the EMT or the SFD that states that Zimmerman needed stitches.

link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

Listen to the audio interviews conducted this is where you will find this:

"One responder said there was a “laceration at least an inch by a half-inch wide.”

“There were two lacerations at the back of his head, one deeper than the other,” another responder said during her interview. “We cleaned him up and got them to stop bleeding.”

 

[TorisMom003]

Listen to the audio interviews conducted this is where you will find this:

"One responder said there was a “laceration at least an inch by a half-inch wide.”

“There were two lacerations at the back of his head, one deeper than the other,” another responder said during her interview. “We cleaned him up and got them to stop bleeding.”

Then why is that not in the EMT report? Is it the opinion of the responder after the fact when a mic and camera was in their face? And again, why in the report is there only one laceration listed on the back of Zimmerman's head instead of two?

Also, on another slightly different note, I was taking a look at the photos released and saw one that I had missed before. It shows that at some point when Zimmerman was bleeding that his head was face down so that the blood flowed under his ear, along his jaw and into his beard. I found it interesting.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/255747/250/Docs-shed-light-on-Trayvon-Martin-killing