George Zimmerman's injuries #2

[lauriej]

Two things, first, yes, GZ had two black eyes. It is in the DOCTOR'S report. He had a PROBABLE broken nose, its in the doctors report. And second, he did not HAVE to be in fear for his life, he only had to be in fear of bodily injury, which he SUSTAINED< thus his fear was valid.

Funny thing, you have SEEN GZ's injuries, yet you deny that they are there, however there is not a SINGLE defensive mark on TM, but you folks hold that GZ attacked or tried to detain him and TM was defending himself.

I just CANNOT understand DENYING evidence and making evidence up to defend someone.

--we also have the pics of george's hands----there is a not a single defensive wound to either one of them. no abrasions, swelling, bruising etc....

--while trayvon was allegedly bashing his head repeatedly on the concrete, what was george doing? if he had been using his hands to ward off his attacker/pull trayvon's hands away from the sides of his head-- surely there would be marks of some sort on george's hands, yet there are none.

--was his sole defensive tactic pulling out his gun and shooting the guy?

 

[RANCH]

I not sure if I can buy into a theory that GZ MUST have defensive injuries to his hands if Trayvon attacked him. Obviously defensive wounds would bolster his claims but does the absence of them mean that his documented injuries were not caused by an attack? I'm not sure that I can make that leap. JMO.

 

[belle3]

I not sure if I can buy into a theory that GZ MUST have defensive injuries to his hands if Trayvon attacked him. Obviously defensive wounds would bolster his claims but does the absence of them mean that his documented injuries were not caused by an attack? I'm not sure that I can make that leap. JMO.

No. I dont think he has to have them. Like u said it would definitely bolster his self defense claim. I find it interesting to note, though. I guess it also depends on GZs telling of events. Maybe, the way gz describes that evening, would lead a person to believe he should have more defensive wounds. But that is speculation, on my part, because we obviously dont have his statements yet.

 

[tehcloser]

I don't think it's a leap. Even if GZ didn't defend himself from any blows, which I find very hard to believe...if TM was sitting on top of him and GZ had to struggle to get his gun, there still should be something on his hands. Red marks, something.....there's nothing. I don't get it.

 

[sleonardelli]

--we also have the pics of george's hands----there is a not a single defensive wound to either one of them. no abrasions, swelling, bruising etc....

--while trayvon was allegedly bashing his head repeatedly on the concrete, what was george doing? if he had been using his hands to ward off his attacker/pull trayvon's hands away from the sides of his head-- surely there would be marks of some sort on george's hands, yet there are none.

--was his sole defensive tactic pulling out his gun and shooting the guy?

IMO, GZ could've been holding onto Trayvon's sleeves and Trayvon was fighting to get away.

 

[gxm]

As for the lack of defensive wounds, let me reiterate that being sucker punched takes you by surprise. You don't recover, or get your wits about you, quickly. Suddenly you're being bounced around the room, all bearings lost. Then your head is being slammed into a hard surface. And then, you hear the sound your head is making and you are overcome with the sickening fear that your brain will end up spilled out across the floor. Is it rational? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a very real, and IMO natural, reaction to being attacked in the way GZ has described. (Drawing heavily on the experience of my own assault.)

GZ had very real, documented injuries. Finally we are seeing the photos and medical report. And I don't think it's fair to say he wasn't beaten bad enough to support self-defense. The only reason he wasn't beat any worse is because he stopped his attacker.

Personally, I'd rather take the beat down than use deadly force. At least that's what I tell myself. But, truth be told, if I'd had a gun on me, I may have done the same as GZ.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[tehcloser]

But, we don't know that he was sucker punched. We have been told of a fight/struggle and GZ has some wounds on his head. His nose...eh, I still don't know. His hands show no damage, TM's hands show no damage except for one tiny abrasion. None of that adds up to a life or death struggle. Something is not fitting. I think because of that...we have charges.

 

[milesmiles55]

Confusion? From having his head bashed?

drugs? a depraved mind?

bashed by who (no DNA found under trayvon martin's fingernails)? against what (concrete did not cause the lacerations to the back of his head)?

 

[cityslick]

But, we don't know that he was sucker punched. We have been told of a fight/struggle and GZ has some wounds on his head. His nose...eh, I still don't know. His hands show no damage, TM's hands show no damage except for one tiny abrasion. None of that adds up to a life or death struggle. Something is not fitting. I think because of that...we have charges.

Two witnesses (really three if you want to count the GF) indicate that some sort of scuffle happened by either seeing something or hearing what sounded like a scuffle. GZ has injuries to his face and back of his head which lend itself to a fight/scuffle. TM has a mark on his hand that may lend itself to a fight/scuffle.

So you add all the evidence together (witness statements, injuries to GZ and TM) and probabilities lend itself more to a fight happening then not.

 

[milesmiles55]

Why did Zimmerman ask "Am I bleeding"? I think because that is a very normal question to ask after one knows they have been injured.

or NOT having been seriously injured.

 

[belle3]

As for the lack of defensive wounds, let me reiterate that being sucker punched takes you by surprise. You don't recover, or get your wits about you, quickly. Suddenly you're being bounced around the room, all bearings lost. Then your head is being slammed into a hard surface. And then, you hear the sound your head is making and you are overcome with the sickening fear that your brain will end up spilled out across the floor. Is it rational? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a very real, and IMO natural, reaction to being attacked in the way GZ has described. (Drawing heavily on the experience of my own assault.)

GZ had very real, documented injuries. Finally we are seeing the photos and medical report. And I don't think it's fair to say he wasn't beaten bad enough to support self-defense. The only reason he wasn't beat any worse is because he stopped his attacker.

Personally, I'd rather take the beat down than use deadly force. At least that's what I tell myself. But, truth be told, if I'd had a gun on me, I may have done the same as GZ.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

I believe that there was an altercation. I always have. But I have still to see evidence of who initiated. I Have my own opinions as to what happened but honestly we just don know yet.I look at the evidence released so far and have more questions than answers. If gz story is that he was getting his head bashed in the concrete i really havent seen evidence to prove that. Yes he has injuries, but we dont know how they were sustained. It could be that trayvon was bashing his head, or it could be that he slipped and fell and hit his head. There is no proof either way, not yet anyways.

 

[HiHater]

Okay, I understand it was raining off and on, but does anyone think that given the circumstances GZ's blood would be found in the grass or on the cement?

There's something that's just not right. I can't put my finger on it, but Angela Corey apparently did...

 

[tehcloser]

Two witnesses (really three if you want to count the GF) indicate that some sort of scuffle happened by either seeing something or hearing what sounded like a scuffle. GZ has injuries to his face and back of his head which lend itself to a fight/scuffle. TM has a mark on his hand that may lend itself to a fight/scuffle.

So you add all the evidence together (witness statements, injuries to GZ and TM) and probabilities lend itself more to a fight happening then not.

Scuffle, sureeeeeee. No doubt. It's the life and death part I'm having the problem with. The repeated number of hits of head bangings......I'm not buying it.

 

[RANCH]

Scuffle, sureeeeeee. No doubt. It's the life and death part I'm having the problem with. The repeated number of hits of head bangings......I'm not buying it.

What do you mean by "life and death part"?

 

[belle3]

Okay, I understand it was raining off and on, but does anyone think that given the circumstances GZ's blood would be found in the grass or on the cement?

There's something that's just not right. I can't put my finger on it, but Angela Corey apparently did...

This is the thing that has been bugging me. No photographs of the spot on the concrete where he was getting his head beat in? And the phone, the flashlights, the casing, were all found in the grass. Im having a hard time with the head on the concrete story.

 

[cityslick]

Okay, I understand it was raining off and on, but does anyone think that given the circumstances GZ's blood would be found in the grass or on the cement?

There's something that's just not right. I can't put my finger on it, but Angela Corey apparently did...

SPD has already been called out on this. They didn't preserve the crime scene right away and a lot of evidence (not just GZ's blood but even TM's) may have been washed away.

 

[cmsg2002]

again, MOO, but it is possible that GZ could have slipped and fallen of his own accord during the time of the altercation...either chasing TM or running from TM. It was dark, rainy, and he/they were on slick surfaces i.e. grass, sidewalk at various points during it. Not saying this would explain away all of GZ's injuries but it could account for some, and could also explain the lack of more abrasions than just the one on TM.

I think what causes me the most concern about this whole incident, is that during GZ's 911 call to report a "suspicious" guy....he clearly tells the dispatcher that TM "is running now" and that he loses sight of him thereafter. So, it at least shows that TM was running AWAY from GZ, not towards him, and at least initially was avoiding a confrontation with GZ.

 

[tehcloser]

Well, it's been called a "life or death" struggle? And one lived, one didn't. I don't think it was something that had to happen...

 

[cityslick]

Scuffle, sureeeeeee. No doubt. It's the life and death part I'm having the problem with. The repeated number of hits of head bangings......I'm not buying it.

That's the SYG part that seemingly everyone has a hard time understanding. One only needs to have a reasonable amount of 'fear' of someone killing them. They don't need to continually sustain injuries before that 'fear' is considered valid.

This is why (IMO) some folks are arguing very hard that TM was not involved in the fight because if there is no fight, then there is no way GZ was in 'fear' of his life. But if there was a fight and GZ really was in a defensive position......

 

[cityslick]

Well, it's been called a "life or death" struggle? And one lived, one didn't. I don't think it was something that had to happen...

Who called it a life and death struggle? I don't think GZ did.