George's Possible "Suicide" Letter

[eddeva]

I will not say what my third and fourth reaction/thoughts were to hearing about GA's attempt and note. I really can't believe I thought these things. And if I read it from another poster I would either silently agree or jump all over them! Ha

What I'd love to know though is if these thoughts occured to anyone else. And yes, I am glad GA is ok, very glad.

Maybe when more time has gone by???? Maybe.

i think i know what you're asking doogiesgirl, but you may not get many replies due to tricia's new post. i've no idea what went down here yesterday but it was enough to upset the mods and it may have been discussions on what you're hinting at.
as i said though i have no idea what the warning is about - i was in london all day and night yesterday/today and nowhere near a computer. maybe you could message a few friends and see if they share your, err, thoughts

btw if anyone knows what we're not supposed to do could you drop me a line ... please?

 

[elfie]

There is no constitutional right to privacy, however the 1st ammendment is spelled right out. It seems evident that an invented or interperated right shouldn't trump an explicit right in the eyes of the consitution. That's why legal decisions based on the "right of privacy" have always been controversial, and subject to re-interpretation.

Because GA was subject to the Baker Act, his competency to act freely in a public society without causing harm to himself and others was under question. His note becomes public, so that the government wouldn't be shown to be detaining him for observation without just cause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_Act_of_1974

The media is not Law Enforcement.

 

[Superllama]

(bold above by me)

I've been having a little trouble keeping up with the multitude of reports. Is it certain that GA was taken into custody under the Baker Act?

I seem to recall the sheriff saying in his interview that he gave GA a choice, pretty much ... come voluntarily or else.

Does anyone know which it was?

If the psych laws in Fl are similer as to MA (and I think they are), it would have happened something like this...

He was not taken into custody, as in arrested. If police, family members etc feel that you are a danger to self or others, they can have you evaluated and held unvoluntarily for up to 72 hrs. You are entitled to a lawyer. You are also entitled to sign a voluntary care agreement at any point during those 72 hours if you choose, like GA might have done.

The key to the whole thing is that the person doing the evaluation has to find that the patient is a danger to himself or others, and then a judge will look at the evaluation and sign an order (called a pink slip), that is good for 72 hours, if he determines it necessary.

 

[cyberborg]

Did anyone else hear (on NG I) think that CA was really angry at GA about this? Good grief!

Their (the A's) whole world has been taken away from them and not by their choosing. Casey made the choice to take away her whole world.

I took that wrongly at first but then I thought, just like when your child is missing and then returns --- I think you are relieved at first but then you get angry about it. A natural emotion.

CA was probably relieved/angry that GA was o.k. but why didn't he talk to her? -- let it get this far? She had a shock.

 

[EgyptNug]

George most likely wrote the note KNOWING it would be published. Otherwise why would he make references to Casey and the veiled references to her friends?

He wrote it to be READ, imo. We don't know to whom it was addressed but as I said, considering how everything else in this case has been revealed, and George was well aware of that, he knew that his letter would be revealed to the public.

I agree. my heart goes out to JoJo, but I do think whatever he wrote, he wrote wanting it to be read by LE and the media. He was willing to take the fall and painting the family as saints.
in my opinion, anyway

 

[EgyptNug]

I bet CA is mad at, and blaming, LE and the media.

Second verse, same as the first on CA's anger, imo.

 

[amysmom]

George most likely wrote the note KNOWING it would be published. Otherwise why would he make references to Casey and the veiled references to her friends?

He wrote it to be READ, imo. We don't know to whom it was addressed but as I said, considering how everything else in this case has been revealed, and George was well aware of that, he knew that his letter would be revealed to the public.

OTH..He was in a desperate state of mind even before he consumed pills & alcohol so there's a good chance he didn't KNOW what he was doing at the time he wrote the letter..

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I found something interesting regarding Florida's Baker Act and Patient Privacy Laws. Please refer to link: http://www.psychlaws.org/LegalResources/StateLaws/Floridastatute.htm

"394.455 Definitions.--(As used in this part, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the term)
(3) "Clinical record" means all parts of the record required to be maintained and includes all medical records, progress notes, charts, and admission and discharge data, and all other information recorded by a facility which pertains to the patient's hospitalization and treatment."

&

394.4615 Clinical records; confidentiality.--
(1) A clinical record shall be maintained for each patient. The record shall include data pertaining to admission and such other information as may be required under rules of the department. A clinical record is confidential and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1). Unless waived by express and informed consent, by the patient or the patient's guardian or guardian advocate or, if the patient is deceased, by the patient's personal representative or the family member who stands next in line of intestate succession, the confidential status of the clinical record shall not be lost by either authorized or unauthorized disclosure to any person, organization, or agency.
(2) The clinical record shall be released when:
(a) The patient or the patient's guardian authorizes the release. The guardian or guardian advocate shall be provided access to the appropriate clinical records of the patient. The patient or the patient's guardian or guardian advocate may authorize the release of information and clinical records to appropriate persons to ensure the continuity of the patient's health care or mental health care.
(b) The patient is represented by counsel and the records are needed by the patient's counsel for adequate representation.
(c) The court orders such release. In determining whether there is good cause for disclosure, the court shall weigh the need for the information to be disclosed against the possible harm of disclosure to the person to whom such information pertains.
(d) The patient is committed to, or is to be returned to, the Department of Corrections from the Department of Children and Family Services, and the Department of Corrections requests such records. These records shall be furnished without charge to the Department of Corrections.
(3) Information from the clinical record may be released when:
(a) A patient has declared an intention to harm other persons. When such declaration has been made, the administrator may authorize the release of sufficient information to provide adequate warning to the person threatened with harm by the patient.
(b) The administrator of the facility or secretary of the department deems release to a qualified researcher as defined in administrative rule, an aftercare treatment provider, or an employee or agent of the department is necessary for treatment of the patient, maintenance of adequate records, compilation of treatment data, aftercare planning, or evaluation of programs.
(4) Information from clinical records may be used for statistical and research purposes if the information is abstracted in such a way as to protect the identity of individuals.
(5) Information from clinical records may be used by the Agency for Health Care Administration, the department, and the Florida advocacy councils for the purpose of monitoring facility activity and complaints concerning facilities.
(6) Clinical records relating to a Medicaid recipient shall be furnished to the Medicaid Fraud Control Unit in the Department of Legal Affairs, upon request.
(7) Any person, agency, or entity receiving information pursuant to this section shall maintain such information as confidential and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1).
(8) Any facility or private mental health practitioner who acts in good faith in releasing information pursuant to this section is not subject to civil or criminal liability for such release.
(9) Nothing in this section is intended to prohibit the parent or next of kin of a person who is held in or treated under a mental health facility or program from requesting and receiving information limited to a summary of that person's treatment plan and current physical and mental condition. Release of such information shall be in accordance with the code of ethics of the profession involved.
(10) Patients shall have reasonable access to their clinical records, unless such access is determined by the patient's physician to be harmful to the patient. If the patient's right to inspect his or her clinical record is restricted by the facility, written notice of such restriction shall be given to the patient and the patient's guardian, guardian advocate, attorney, and representative. In addition, the restriction shall be recorded in the clinical record, together with the reasons for it. The restriction of a patient's right to inspect his or her clinical record shall expire after 7 days but may be renewed, after review, for subsequent 7-day periods.
(11) Any person who fraudulently alters, defaces, or falsifies the clinical record of any person receiving mental health services in a facility subject to this part, or causes or procures any of these offenses to be committed, commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Having found this information, it is my understanding that George may have a viable lawsuit if his "suicidal" letter and texts are released to the public. I think that since those same texts and the letter were used to admit him to be evaluated, then he is covered under the Patient Privacy Law. Something to think about...If they didn't release what types of meds he was taking, then why would they be able to release the note & texts that were used to get him in the hospital? Wouldn't that then become part of his patient file? Jeb Bush already amended the Sunshine Law once. Is it time for a reevaluation? While I do agree with public records being available to solve crimes (etc), where and when do we draw the line?

 

[fortytwo]

If the psych laws in Fl are similer as to MA (and I think they are), it would have happened something like this...

He was not taken into custody, as in arrested. If police, family members etc feel that you are a danger to self or others, they can have you evaluated and held unvoluntarily for up to 72 hrs. You are entitled to a lawyer. You are also entitled to sign a voluntary care agreement at any point during those 72 hours if you choose, like GA might have done.

The key to the whole thing is that the person doing the evaluation has to find that the patient is a danger to himself or others, and then a judge will look at the evaluation and sign an order (called a pink slip), that is good for 72 hours, if he determines it necessary.

So, if I understand correctly, unless such an evaluation was made and such an order was signed (neither of which is certain to be the case) then George is free to walk out of there any time he wants to.

 

[Salem]

Attempting suicide is a crime. As such the documents become public record. That's how it works in my county any way.

And if everything was kept private, then why is there even a WS to begin with? Isn't that why we're all here? To speculate and discuss every aspect of a crime.

Suicide might be a crime, but it is also a deeply personal expression of heart-wrenching pain. When it has come to the public's attention that someone is feeling such pain, does the public really have a right to know all the gory details of such pain? I think not. We already know more about GA's pain then we have a right too.

Not everything is kept private. We have court documents, ping maps, alleged perps, etc. which gives us plenty to sleuth from. What sleuthing will we do from a very personal suicide note when it is not written by the suspected perp and contains no references to the crime? And does the little we might be able to glean from it really override the person's need for privacy, compassion and understanding? Why would our morbid curiosity be of higher priority than GA's mental health and well-being?

Salem

 

[Verité]

there's a good chance he didn't KNOW what he was doing at the time he wrote the letter..

ooo. . .ummm. . .ahh. . .this gets into the area of "mental competency"
which must be determined according to psycholegal definitions and
extends way beyond the realm of lay speculation.

I guess I'll just keep cheer-leading for this or any person's right to freedom
from public over-intrusiveness into this most private realm of their mental
health status during crisis states.

 

[MAMABEAR]

in mho it was a cry for help,
many years ago i did the same thing, i did not take enough pills to cause death but i left a note ,subconciously calling for help.
It is caused by utter despair, and in his case so much worse because he sees his life being played out on tv.
I think he knows the truth but can not accept it. Just watch the lkl interview, he is physically ill especially when he says the car smell was pizza.
I hope this prompts lee and cindy as well as george to get the help they need. Not just for them but for the new baby that will be coming into their family.
My prayers are with them

what "new baby"?

 

[Tichad3]

what "new baby"?

Ditto that question.

 

[elle1919]

Ditto that question.

I think the poster was speaking of Lee A's girlfriend Mallory possibly being pregnant and bringing another baby into the story. Not sure if it has been confirmed that Mallory is really with child.

 

[Intermezzo]

I am interested in the "dark veiled references" to Casey's friends. I hear a bus coming down the road.

Lets look at this from another angle.
Perhaps the "dark veiled references" to Casey's friends are because the A's are upset with them, they may feel most of them have turned on Casey.

Most of us can see and understand why, but from the standpoint of the A's who think Casey did not harm Caylee and she was a wonderful mother they must see it as Casey's friends turning their backs on her and betrayed her by talking about her/this case with the media
Just a thought.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Suicide might be a crime, but it is also a deeply personal expression of heart-wrenching pain. When it has come to the public's attention that someone is feeling such pain, does the public really have a right to know all the gory details of such pain? I think not. We already know more about GA's pain then we have a right too.

Not everything is kept private. We have court documents, ping maps, alleged perps, etc. which gives us plenty to sleuth from. What sleuthing will we do from a very personal suicide note when it is not written by the suspected perp and contains no references to the crime? And does the little we might be able to glean from it really override the person's need for privacy, compassion and understanding? Why would our morbid curiosity be of higher priority than GA's mental health and well-being?

Salem

My sentiments exactly! Also, as of todays date, only 2 states list suicide as a crime. Attempted suicide laws differ from each jurisdiction of every other state. While I don't condone every single action the A family has done in protecting the jailed perp, I certainly can try to understand the stress GA must be under. Without compassion, how can we love? I have no idea if this was a ploy or not, but that's beside the point. Right now he's in a hospital being evaluated, so I tend to lean towards making him healthy and praying for his recovery. What kind of person would I be if I kicked him while he was down? If it ever turns out that it was indeed a ploy (which I personally believe it isn't), then I can at least live with myself knowing I didn't steer away from my own morality. Excellent post Salem!

 

[CentralFLMama]

now, this is what I don't like. That note and the texts are private and personal and should stay that way! so unfair to GA. my heart breaks for him

I agree. As interesting as *I* or *WE* might find all of it, it is NONE of my business and has nothing to do with the murder of Caylee in terms of the case and trial. How horrible for something so private to be made public.

 

[Broderick]

I could care less to read any letter or texts, if they are not incriminating. If the family didn't do this for a sympathy ploy, and he wanted to write about killing himself because he is broken hearted, than they can keep the messages. If he wrote about being culpable in a cover up or admits Casey is a monster and did the deed, then I might be curious.

 

[Digger]

Attempting suicide is a crime. As such the documents become public record. That's how it works in my county any way.

And if everything was kept private, then why is there even a WS to begin with? Isn't that why we're all here? To speculate and discuss every aspect of a crime.

Suicide is a crime?? I've never heard of this?

 

[songline]

i could care less to read any letter or texts, if they are not incriminating. If the family didn't do this for a sympathy ploy, and he wanted to write about killing himself because he is broken hearted, than they can keep the messages. If he wrote about being culpable in a cover up or admits Casey is a monster and did the deed, then i might be curious.

DITTO !
It actually amazes me how some posters think...
I wish I could tell some to go get a life.

Some of the sad occurrences for the Anthony's is a domino effect of what Casey is involved with and that is the only STORY that really matters.

The rest is personal and all human being have a right to that.