Gerard Baden Clay's murder appeal

[Mountain Misst]

Most of the Court's work relates to the hearing of appeals against decisions of other courts. There is no automatic right to have an appeal heard by the High Court and parties who wish to appeal must persuade the Court in a preliminary hearing that there are special reasons to cause the appeal to be heard. Decisions of the High Court on appeals are final. There are no further appeals once a matter has been decided by the High Court, and the decision is binding on all other courts throughout Australia.

Rules of Court, which are made by the Justices, set out the procedural steps that legal practitioners must comply with in preparing a case for hearing, including the preparation of an Appeal Book. The Appeal Book prepared by the appellant's legal practitioner, contains basic documentation which is necessary background for the Court to consider the issue raised by the appeal.

http://www.hcourt.gov.au/about/operation

Monday is just the start. If we were looking for victory, that would just be to reach the preliminary hearing before the High Court. Am keeping positive that we'll get that far. IMO, we have a long haul before us.

 

[they'll get you]

http://www.hcourt.gov.au/about/operation

Monday is just the start. If we were looking for victory, that would just be to reach the preliminary hearing before the High Court. Am keeping positive that we'll get that far. IMO, we have a long haul before us.

2GB said it could be 1 year to hear the outcome of their decision!
My bloody oath I've got patience to see this through!

From your link Mountain:-
(It's great to see you again)

The Court rarely gives its decision (i.e. the judgment) at the end of a hearing. Rather, the decision is "reserved" and presented some time after the hearing. Each Justice makes his/her own decision on cases, and where decisions are not unanimous, the decision of the majority prevails.

 

[Couldbe]

If, as the Appeal Judges have accepted ..... that Gerard's actions following killing Allison could be attributed to panic, why would he go to the trouble of dressing Allison in walking clothes including sneakers to support his claim that she had gone for a walk, if he had intended for her body to be washed away from under the bridge .... as Appeal Judges have actually said?

Sounds to me like he didn't just panic and dispose of her body to where he had hoped it would never be found, but would be washed down into the Brisbane River as suggested in verdict downgrading.

 

[crabstick]

I wouldn't say exclusive to men, but being male, I probably see less of it. But the particular behaviour of being hostile among other things of manipulative, its push all the friends and parents away behind the wifes back to the point the wife cant believe it.

Psycho behaviour like answering their mobile phone saying they are not home etc.

It doesn't bode well down the track. It is like, who are you trying to fool, yourself. They have that many tickets on themselves, they become delusional.

This is a cracker example, a bloke thinks he is going to get away with murder. First, he has to swim in pig dust, then ....

Oh crabstick, sorry to say I have witnessed females behaving like this, it's not exclusive to men.

 

[Couldbe]

I think Allison was right-handed, so if she had scratched his face during a front-on altercation you would expect those scratches to be on his left side.

If he approached her from behind while she was relaxing on the couch, then they would have resulted in being on his right side, which is where they were.
........... this way of viewing the scratches wouldn't support the confrontation hypothesis.

It was later at night, as from memory she had been talking to Olivia around 9 o'clock that night.

 

[they'll get you]

Gerard Baden-Clay: Appeal success unlikely, retired Supreme Court judge says

Queensland's director of public prosecutions must have found a key piece of evidence overlooked by three of the state's most senior judges in order to prove Gerard Baden-Clay intended to kill his wife Allison, a retired Supreme Court judge said on Wednesday.
The Honourable George Fryberg, QC, said while the grounds of a High Court appeal over the downgrading of the former Brisbane real estate agent's murder conviction were yet to be revealed, he considered it highly unlikely DPP Michael Byrne's application would be granted.

The Court of Appeal judges would have read the trial transcript cover to cover, that's what they do in a circumstantial case, but if you accept the accuracy of what the Court of Appeal said about the state of evidence it is hard to see how leave to appeal would be granted," Mr Fryberg said.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...supreme-court-judge-says-20151230-glwz6g.html

 

[Fluffykins]

Gerard Baden-Clay: Appeal success unlikely, retired Supreme Court judge says

Queensland's director of public prosecutions must have found a key piece of evidence overlooked by three of the state's most senior judges in order to prove Gerard Baden-Clay intended to kill his wife Allison, a retired Supreme Court judge said on Wednesday.
The Honourable George Fryberg, QC, said while the grounds of a High Court appeal over the downgrading of the former Brisbane real estate agent's murder conviction were yet to be revealed, he considered it highly unlikely DPP Michael Byrne's application would be granted.

The Court of Appeal judges would have read the trial transcript cover to cover, that's what they do in a circumstantial case, but if you accept the accuracy of what the Court of Appeal said about the state of evidence it is hard to see how leave to appeal would be granted," Mr Fryberg said.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...supreme-court-judge-says-20151230-glwz6g.html

Yes, well ... very hard for us to swallow but I accept that's most likely how it will go down.

So what a triumph for Gerard, eh. He won't be found guilty of killing his wife, the mother of his children, by murder. Instead he will be found guilty of killing his wife, the mother of his children, by manslaughter. Whereas he would have had a heavy sentence for murder, and people would have shunned him when he was released, and his children would have refused to see him ... well, because it's manslaughter, it will all be so different. He'll be released straight away, and everyone will slap him on the back and say "good old Gerard," and his daughters will love him just like they always did.

Except it won't go down that way at all. Whatever the formal judicial outcome, he won't be released anytime soon. He will never live it down that he killed his beautiful, loving wife. He will never live it down that he condemned his little girls to growing up motherless. For the rest of his days he will live with seeing people cross the street in front of him rather than speak to him. For the rest of his days he will live with knowing most people want nothing to do with him.

Will he ever hold down a normal job again? Will anyone ever trust him again? Will his girls ever want anything to do with him again? Will he ever know a happy family Christmas again? Ever enjoy a family celebration of his birthday, his wedding anniversary, his anniversary of anything?

I don't think so. I'm not at all sure the final judicial outcome even matters all that much. He will never live a normal life again; he will never enjoy the unconditional love of his family again; he will never enjoy the respect of his community or his colleagues ever again.

Let the legal process label it manslaughter if that satisfies the letter of the law. We all know the law is an *advertiser censored*. We all know what a disgusting creature Gerard Baden-Clay is, and he will just have to live with everyone knowing that, and treating him accordingly, for the rest of his days.

 

[HoolyDooly]

Hello Fluffikins and everyone. Has been a very long time. Fluffikins you have summed it up well. However, people give G cold shoulder I think his native ego will kick in, or up. Possibly he might move OS ? Could the manslaughter come with extra in jail time given his continuos lies etc ?.
...Happy 2016 BTW all
Hooly

 

[Couldbe]

Hello Fluffikins and everyone. Has been a very long time. Fluffikins you have summed it up well. However, people give G cold shoulder I think his native ego will kick in, or up. Possibly he might move OS ? Could the manslaughter come with extra in jail time given his continuos lies etc ?.
...Happy 2016 BTW all
Hooly

Yes Gerard there is a ‘truth’ in there that you and your sister, at least, know about and neither of you are ever going to tell …….. because you must think it is none of our business; and we are all just so mean to you!

Even if you fessed up, you could never be believed to tell the real truth (probably nothing different …’just business as usual&#8217.

Allison was the only one in your life who still wanted to have faith in you, and look what you did to her.

Looks like you’re cactus Gerard and only yourself to blame; now you will be ‘running’ for the rest of your life.

[Even if you now just happened to see advantage in pleading guilty to Manslaughter if technically that was still possible, I can't understand how an Appeal Court could accept it as the truth, after having told so many lies under oath when you took the stand (looks like that option wouldn't be possible).]

 

[Couldbe]

With no cause of death being established and no visual signs of foul play evident when Allison’s body was found, (but smothering not ruled out)
……….. one would wonder how the Appeal Judges could accept that:

“The post-offence conduct evidence nonetheless remained neutral on the issue of intent. To put it another way, there remained in this case a reasonable hypothesis consistent with innocence of murder: that there was a physical confrontation between the appellant and his wife in which he delivered a blow which killed her (for example, by the effects of a fall hitting her head against a hard surface) without intending to cause serious harm; and, in a state of panic and knowing that he had unlawfully killed her, he took her body to Kholo Creek in the hope that it would be washed away, while lying about the causes of the marks on his face which suggested conflict.”

. Would Allison have died so quickly? (in reference to the hypothesis); or
. Would smothering be considered Manslaughter or Murder?

JMO, but it is so difficult to accept that there is something that has been missed by the Appeal Judges.

 

[they'll get you]

Under new names he'd run straight to that ***** and she'd welcome him with open arms. Remember she "earned" a six figure sum from 60 Minutes.

TMc is a hated woman and is surviving, so will he. Possibly she grew a beard too.


The Courier-Mail July 17, 2014
TONI McHugh has returned to the real estate industry under a new name and is rumoured to have accepted a six-figure sum for a tell-all television interview.

The woman who was Gerard Baden-Clay’s mistress for more than three years is trying to move on with her life as rumours abound she was paid up to $200,000 for an exclusive interview with 60 Minutes.

Ms McHugh said she believed much of her success in her real estate career stemmed from her earlier employment as a high school art teacher.

She worked for several years as an art teacher in the Blue Mountains before moving to Queensland.

“I’m creative in approach, well organised, an excellent communicator but most of all I really enjoy assisting people,’’ Ms McHugh wrote. :badmood:

uke:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...w/news-story/81521fd8d56bbe7f844b2da9efd6c96e

 

[they'll get you]

With no cause of death being established and no visual signs of foul play evident when Allison’s body was found, (but smothering not ruled out)
……….. one would wonder how the Appeal Judges could accept that:

“The post-offence conduct evidence nonetheless remained neutral on the issue of intent. To put it another way, there remained in this case a reasonable hypothesis consistent with innocence of murder: that there was a physical confrontation between the appellant and his wife in which he delivered a blow which killed her (for example, by the effects of a fall hitting her head against a hard surface) without intending to cause serious harm; and, in a state of panic and knowing that he had unlawfully killed her, he took her body to Kholo Creek in the hope that it would be washed away, while lying about the causes of the marks on his face which suggested conflict.”

. Would Allison have died so quickly? (in reference to the hypothesis); or
. Would smothering be considered Manslaughter or Murder?

JMO, but it is so difficult to accept that there is something that has been missed by the Appeal Judges.

It's bittersweet to see all the old crew on board. :seeya:
:grouphug:
:grouphug:

Murder/manslaughter?

I must be stupid...but if I picked up a gun and shot someone I hated, cold bloodedly then it's murder.

If I shot someone in self defence then it's manslaughter.

If I shot someone I knew and loved, didn't try to resuscitate, didn't call an ambulance but threw their body over a bridge 14 Klms away and lied through my teeth then IMO it's gotta be bloody murder!

I guess my life skills and the jury's don't come into play here, eh?

To shoot someone is instant...to throttle someone takes a couple of minutes. Count it, it's a long time.

 

[Couldbe]

It's bittersweet to see all the old crew on board. :seeya:
:grouphug:
:grouphug:

Murder/manslaughter?

I must be stupid...but if I picked up a gun and shot someone I hated, cold bloodedly then it's murder.

If I shot someone in self defence then it's manslaughter.

If I shot someone I knew and loved, didn't try to resuscitate, didn't call an ambulance but threw their body over a bridge 14 Klms away and lied through my teeth then IMO it's gotta be bloody murder!

I guess my life skills and the jury's don't come into play here, eh?

To shoot someone is instant...to throttle someone takes a couple of minutes. Count it, it's a long time.

I am with you They'll get you

Because the Law 'is an *advertiser censored*' and has failed to deliver in this case ..... i.e. until the High Court can be convinced there is an error of judgment, our minds keep on searching to find the 'key' to revealing the intent that is there.
JMO but Gerard smothering Allison would fit with intent to murder .... no escaping that, and no 'innocence of Murder' as Appeal Judges have ruled.

 

[they'll get you]

I am with you They'll get you

Because the Law 'is an *advertiser censored*' and has failed to deliver in this case ..... i.e. until the High Court can be convinced there is an error of judgment, our minds keep on searching to find the 'key' to revealing the intent that is there.
JMO but Gerard smothering Allison would fit with intent to murder .... no escaping that, and no 'innocence of Murder' as Appeal Judges have ruled.

I get filthy mad when I think about this.

I might start a feminist argument here BUT most men are physically stronger than women.

All Allison had to defend herself was her fingernails. Domestic violence must stop. Thats what maddens me.

 

[Couldbe]

JMO
I don’t know how the lounge was arranged in their house, but it may not have been against a wall.

It has been envisaged by me that if he did come from behind the couch and smother Allison while she was maybe snoozing propped up on it, he probably thought, as she was scratching his face fighting to breathe, she didn’t know who it was.

 

[they'll get you]

JMO
I don’t know how the lounge was arranged in their house, but it may not have been against a wall.

It has been envisaged by me that if he did come from behind the couch and smother Allison while she was maybe snoozing propped up on it, he probably thought, as she was scratching his face fighting to breathe, she didn’t know who it was.

A photo of the lounge room.

 

[they'll get you]

More photos.
I noticed there is a portable air conditioner in the lounge room, surely in Queensland they had better air conditioning than that.

Also behind the lounge appears to be Allison's thongs there.

 

[they'll get you]

A couple more...

Because of the plant matter through Allison's hair I have a strong feeling the fight was at the back of the house unless Gerbil dragged her around to the car. Allison's phone was detected in the neighbours property so I feel she'd had enough and threatened to call TMc and Gerbil grabbed the phone and pegged it and lost control. Just my humble thoughts.

 

[Couldbe]

A couple more...

Because of the plant matter through Allison's hair I have a strong feeling the fight was at the back of the house unless Gerbil dragged her around to the car. Allison's phone was detected in the neighbours property so I feel she'd had enough and threatened to call TMc and Gerbil grabbed the phone and pegged it and lost control. Just my humble thoughts.

Thank you so much for the photots They'll get you. During the trial the Defence brought in a witness, late in the proceedings, a woman who lived near to the Baden Clays and she told the Court that her young daughter had let out a loud scream at a spider web outside their door when they returned home from dinner.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226959211797
" She agreed her neighbours across the road backed on to the Baden-Clay home.

She said her daughter would have screamed around 10pm.

“I wanted them to get inside and be quiet … it was a raised voice and it was a mother having a bit of a hysterical fit at their children,” she said.

Ms Apps said her daughter screamed shortly, sharply and loudly when she ran into the spider’s web. "

Upon this I deduced that there may not necessarily have been a fight. He had dragged Allison's body out to the back terrace and around to the car when Scraps barked.
Yes, looks like Allison's thongs behind the lounge. Many of us had imagined he had dressed Allison in her walking clothes and sneakers (because he knew exactly what she was wearing).

 

[Fuskier]

I am with you They'll get you

Because the Law 'is an *advertiser censored*' and has failed to deliver in this case ..... i.e. until the High Court can be convinced there is an error of judgment, our minds keep on searching to find the 'key' to revealing the intent that is there.
JMO but Gerard smothering Allison would fit with intent to murder .... no escaping that, and no 'innocence of Murder' as Appeal Judges have ruled.

Agreed. Hypothetically, if both his hands were engaged stopping her air supply, he could not at the same time stop her hands reaching up and scratching his face. Hence the downward scratch marks on his face. He was 'intent' on stopping her air supply and was scratched in that process IMO.

Two possible methods used to stop air supply to a human lying horizontal is: a) by forcing one hand to pinch the nostrils shut while forcing the other hand over the mouth at the same time thus stopping all air supply to the victim; b) by forcing a pillow/cushion over the victim's face thus stopping all air supply to the victim.

The perpetrator could come up behind and execute by closing the nostrils with one hand and placing the other hand over the victim's mouth until they stopped breathing; or the perpetrator could place their knee on the victim's chest to create a disabling weight from which they cannot escape and execute smothering. Both methods require 'force' and take a few minutes to execute.
Stopping the air supply by force shows 'intent' in my opinion and in the opinion of many other reasonable citizens.

GBC has had every opportunity the claim 'accidental' death IMO. He has not done so.

Is the fact that the Appeal Judges found that 'it could not be ruled out as a possibility' enough grounds to change the legitimate verdict reached by a properly instructed Jury of reasonable persons?
The jury found that the evidence indicated it was 'probable' in this case that he murdered her.

Does every possibility need to be ruled out when the accused himself has not claimed 'accidental death'?

Come on DPP and High Court: the onus is on you to examine this one with future implications for other cases. :furious: