Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[Summerfun]

If this really was pilot suicide, and that is such a disgusting thought, he killed 156 innocent people, and now he is putting countless responders lives at risk also.
What a despicable human being.

 

[CARIIS]

Husband heard the latest and immediately referenced the Egypt disaster. He says he never uses that lock position when a first officer just takes a bathroom break. And, as a mom trying to get my kid enough flight hours to get a commercial job, I questioned how a captain would so few hours for ten years?

Yep, 10 years, 6000 hrs in type is very low and odd !

 

[emirates1957]

I wonder if the two pilots have ever flown together before?
Are pilots assigned by the airlines in some sort of order or is it a pick and choose which flight they want and who they want to fly with?

Most airlines have a bidding system and some will opt for the same rosters especially if they are doing the hanky panky on overnights. The majority of the rosters would be assigned by the rostering officer and you could end up with anyone. We have had issues with crew not wanting to fly together for all sorts of reasons, these problems are quickly ironed out otherwise rostering would be a nightmare.

 

[gregjrichards]

Thanks for all your posts everyone it is a very interesting discussion. The latest news about the cockpit door is horrifying. Sorry if this is a stupid question but could the co-pilot have been distracted by the cockpit door being locked and the battering of the door or he got up to open it and the plane crashed in the process? I presumed most planes fly on auto pilot now and are only flown manually during take off and landing.

I wonder about planes flying when they are 27 years old all those take off and landings must put stress on a planes airframe.

 

[emirates1957]

My gears are turning and thinking. It was a relatively short flight for the pilot to be using the restroom really. I often fly with front ends who never step foot out unless it's an over 4 hour flight. I mean they were on the ground less than an hour beforehand in Barcelona and could have "gone" then. Plus they would have known the back end would be in the middle of a busy service time. Most are considerate and don't "get in our way" unless they really have to. It was a pretty big gamble for one to assume that the other would head out of the deck at all during the flight. What was the "plan" I wonder to assure that one would even be able to take control of the aircraft during that particular flight? I suppose one could have sent the other out to check on something or retrieve something.. Random thoughts of a racing mind.

That was my thought as well Gina…why 0046 minutes into the flight would you need to use the lav. Do you know what the flight time was? Unless the Capt said to the F/O ..the F/A heard a strange noise in the cabin can you investigate….but even then they would both be privy to the call to the F/D.

 

[CARIIS]

Anyone that has experiences in planes (Airbus preferred),..

After watching this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs, would whomever is in the cockpit push the "lock" down again. Or, would the emergency code override the lock position?



Also, does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/19/us-lufthansa-strikes-idUSKBN0MF2KX20150319

THey know a lot more than they are releasing! THey held what a two hour useless presser, acknowledged they had at that point in time heard some of it, and failed to mentin that a flight drew memeber is trying to break back into his office.

Imagine how messed up that would be for any of us a passenger, watching 50% of the front office desperatly trying to get in, while the rest of us know we are descending 45 minutes too early-- scary............................

 

[emirates1957]

Thanks for all your posts everyone it is a very interesting discussion. The latest news about the cockpit door is horrifying. Sorry if this is a stupid question but could the co-pilot have been distracted by the cockpit door being locked and the battering of the door or he got up to open it and the plane crashed in the process? I presumed most planes fly on auto pilot now and are only flown manually during take off and landing.

I wonder about planes flying when they are 27 years old all those take off and landings must put stress on a planes airframe.

These planes can just about take off and land by themselves, the only thing they can't do is go backwards. A/C go through rigorous checks for a range of issues. A/C maintenance is based on cycles so once they make ex amount of cycles they are required to have the appropriate check. If we went over by 1 cycle the A/C would have to be grounded until it had ben given it's maintenance. German Wings would need to do direct to Airbus to get dispensation to utilise their equipment over and above specifications.

 

[Madeleine74]

That was my thought as well Gina…why 0046 minutes into the flight would you need to use the lav. Do you know what the flight time was? Unless the Capt said to the F/O ..the F/A heard a strange noise in the cabin can you investigate….but even then they would both be privy to the call to the F/D.

Flight time was about 2 hrs. I don't know about you guys, but when you gotta go, you gotta go, and holding it just because can be very uncomfortable. Someone drinking some coffee could be enough to fill the bladder. Unless the suggestion is all pilots should wear Depends?

 

[emirates1957]

Very true…..not sure if the aviator ego would lend itself to Depends……having visuals of our guys wearing these…..oooohhhhhhh.

 

[CARIIS]

Very true…..not sure if the aviator ego would lend itself to Depends……having visuals of our guys wearing these…..oooohhhhhhh.

or passenger reaction when he boards plane with full pants! Ha that is funny! The world has been nuts for quite some time, a bit confused why this is bothering me so? Betrayal? Whats wrong with just killing yourself alone? But it does seem (which again makes no sense he certainly knows the CVR is going to pick up the ruckus, yet he tried to make it go down in history as a "crash" , unless he thought mountain impact would render the recorders useless, I mean we only have one of two it seems. Now the flight data recorder becomes even more intriguing to see what inputs he was actually commanding, etc

ut then I thought , hey old plane wonder if the cockpit door release jammed locked? but a locked door and a plane in a mountain at 400 mph seems a bit much

 

[CARIIS]

Too many of these planes crashing or being off course and lost. So worried about hackers hacking in to control planes. Experimenting with terrorist acts using planes, perhaps, or do I simply have a vivid imagination? Have a son working in cyber security...

Sorry Ray, what would constitude a vivid imagination 10 years ago seems to be the growing norm in the this mad world. And in the pressor when he said we typically dont release names of flightcrew - complete crock, name of flight crew up front released instantly . Just think about the last four or five events in the last 6 months. When he said that I was angry- its a lie.

There are reasons why the are not giving the media and public the names of the flight crew............................................................................it is SOP, after notification of kin peroid

much is rotten in Denmark ....................

 

[emirates1957]

or passenger reaction when he boards plane with full pants! Ha that is funny! The world has been nuts for quite some time, a bit confused why this is bothering me so? Betrayal? Whats wrong with just killing yourself alone? But it does seem (which again makes no sense he certainly knows the CVR is going to pick up the ruckus, yet he tried to make it go down in history as a "crash" , unless he thought mountain impact would render the recorders useless, I mean we only have one of two it seems. Now the flight data recorder becomes even more intriguing to see what inputs he was actually commanding, etc

ut then I thought , hey old plane wonder if the cockpit door release jammed locked? but a locked door and a plane in a mountain at 400 mph seems a bit much

Hear Hear !!

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Yes, the investigators know exactly what all is on the recording. Of course they did not want to release that information to the public yet. If it is an indication of pilot suicide/murder, I think they would want to get with whatever law enforcement agency would be involved. So that law enforcement can get to the family members of these pilots in order to immediately interview them. Also to interview anyone who was around them over the past few days/weeks.

Wonder what law enforcement agency would take the lead here? I am unfamiliar with how French law works. Here in the U.S. murder charges usually are brought by an individual state, unless the murder involved violation of a Federal law, such as a death during a kidnapping or during a terrorist act such as in the current case of the Boston Marathon bomber.

 

[CARIIS]

Anyone that has experiences in planes (Airbus preferred),..

After watching this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs, would whomever is in the cockpit push the "lock" down again. Or, would the emergency code override the lock position?



Also, does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/19/us-lufthansa-strikes-idUSKBN0MF2KX20150319

Humm........................Now that is a very good point! Labor stife has been very intense between the main line and German WIngs. Humm that even fits in with his low flying time, maybe trying to damage sales? Interesting angle sherbet...............there was an amazing Fed Ex flight where disgrutnled employee got pass to dead head, the problem is he bought hammers, a thing used to kill whales or something on board and mauled the flight crew with hammers.
The pilot flew the jumbo DC10 erratic to throgh him off balance and for like 45 minutes the rest of the crew had to hold him down.

, but you should see real pics of the actual cockpit blood all over the controls the seats it was unreal ---he was hoping the plane would look like a crash and his family would get money

and the pilot...........extradinairy --- his brain is hanging on, blood all over his eyes, blurry vision. super headache,had one chance to make a landing and he flew this monster to the ground like he was fine. It was a DC10 - huge machine- he make that baby do some F16 fighter jet moves to throw the guy all over the back of the plane, it was an amazing event. There is a 46 minute show about the ordeal --- truly extradinary. They cant fly anymore too much of their head bashed in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

PSA had a murder suicide that bought down a plane tooo:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

ANd Silk AIr :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185

 

[fruity]

Flight time was about 2 hrs. I don't know about you guys, but when you gotta go, you gotta go, and holding it just because can be very uncomfortable. Someone drinking some coffee could be enough to fill the bladder. Unless the suggestion is all pilots should wear Depends?

Yep. I was on a 70 minute flight recently and about 20 minutes in I started to feel the need to go. I always go before I board (I HATE aeroplane bathrooms) so it was unexpected. I tried to hold it but 10 minutes later there was no question about it - I had to go. I have a strong bladder too - I had an ultrasound in January for a kidney infection and the sonographer commented on how much I could hold!!

 

[AlwaysShocked]

From an article: The plane descended to 6,000 ft. and was flying on a straight course. The wreckage is at 6,500 ft. Anyone at all familiar with the Alps would know that many, many of these mountains are higher than 6,000 ft. So, flying over the Alps at 6,000 ft. it is just a matter of time until you hit a mountain.

How pilot gets co-pilot out of the cabin: Wait until flight attendants are busy servicing the passengers with food/drinks, then turn to co-pilot and say, "Hey, that coffee smells really good, doesn't it? How about getting me a cup? Black, no sugar."

Per CNN: Family of passengers are today being flown by the airlines to Marseilles and will be bussed to the town nearest to the crash site. Then they will be shown the crash site by helicopter. Counselors will be made available to them.

4 helicopters ready to take off for crashsite now. Finding data recorder "sim card" and recovery of more body parts is goal.

Wonder how big the "sim card" or whatever they call it from that flight data recorder is?

 

[Elley Mae]

From an article: The plane descended to 6,000 ft. and was flying on a straight course. The wreckage is at 6,500 ft. Anyone at all familiar with the Alps would know that many, many of these mountains are higher than 6,000 ft. So, flying over the Alps at 6,000 ft. it is just a matter of time until you hit a mountain.

How pilot gets co-pilot out of the cabin: Wait until flight attendants are busy servicing the passengers with food/drinks, then turn to co-pilot and say, "Hey, that coffee smells really good, doesn't it? How about getting me a cup? Black, no sugar."

Per CNN: Family of passengers are today being flown by the airlines to Marseilles and will be bussed to the town nearest to the crash site. Then they will be shown the crash site by helicopter. Counselors will be made available to them.

4 helicopters ready to take off for crashsite now. Finding data recorder "sim card" and recovery of more body parts is goal.

Wonder how big the "sim card" or whatever they call it from that flight data recorder is?

bbm Probably like looking for a needle in a hay stack. I can't imagine clearing that mountain.

 

[Elley Mae]

snippets

"Procedurally, something was very wrong," said Glen Winn, an aviation instructor at the University of Southern California and an expert in aviation security and anti-terrorism.

"You ask any pilot, they’ll tell you the same thing," Winn said. "They don’t leave a person alone in the cockpit. They don’t do it. Nobody does that."

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-german-jet-crash-door-20150325-story.html#navtype=outfit

“You can use a little bit of logic here – the pilot that was in cockpit either didn’t want the other pilot to come in or wasn’t able to let him in," said Barry Schiff, a former TWA captain of 34 years and an aviation safety consultant based in Camarillo. "Only those two possibilities exist, and it leads you down some interesting paths.”

"It’s never one thing," Anthony said. "Every aircraft mishap is composed of more than one causal factor. Usually it’s four or five things coming together. Our minds like to simplify and say it’s this [one thing, but] that identification of the single cause is usually just the last cause in a chain."

Anthony then repeated: "It’s never one thing.”

 

[Elley Mae]

An alarm indicating proximity to the ground can be heard before the moment of impact, the source adds.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32062278

Mr Jouty said the second "black box" - the flight data recorder - had not been found and he could not confirm an earlier statement by President Francois Hollande that its casing had been recovered.

 

[sherlockh]

Yep. I was on a 70 minute flight recently and about 20 minutes in I started to feel the need to go. I always go before I board (I HATE aeroplane bathrooms) so it was unexpected. I tried to hold it but 10 minutes later there was no question about it - I had to go. I have a strong bladder too - I had an ultrasound in January for a kidney infection and the sonographer commented on how much I could hold!!

I only have to go when the seat belt sign is on Some crews will let you go, others will order you back to your seat. Very confusing