Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[zwiebel]

My (now asleep) translator also said the 2nd video at link had a man speaking about the utter devastation at the site, and the unusually small fragments the plane was broken into.

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-di...a320-a-chute-pendant-huit-minutes_857985.html

 

[CARIIS]

[h=2]Orders & deliveries[/h]

Total orders
Total deliveries
In operation

A320 Family February 2015
[TD="align: right"]11537[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]6452
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]6191
[/TD]

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a320family/

I am a bit surprised how they are playing this as this really high rate of descent. An average 4000 ft a minute is not typical but generally would not stress structures. THe fact that they had reasonably stable speed during the entire event sequence indicates control of some sort. Pilot blogs refer to 3000-3500 feet as basically "typical".

 

[PrairieWind]

Its very concerning considering that the A320 is a real work horse in commercial aviation. I heard one guy earlier today say the A320 is suddenly becoming the "Ford Pinto" of aviation. Not really true, but I thought it was a funny statement. Not a funny issue however.

 

[SouthAussie]

This is very interesting if that guy is correct that there was a fighter jet there. I wonder if he is mistaken or if thats true.

Apparently, an Italian military jet may have been in the area.


"Some experts claim that an Italian military jet switched its transponder to the emergency code of #7700 at 10.35, near where flight 4U9525 began its final descent.

Investigators should be quickly able to determine whether this emergency was a coincidence or possibly had some relevance to the passenger jet's demise."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ldorf-francois-hollande-Lufthansa-4U9525.html

 

[zwiebel]

This is very interesting if that guy is correct that there was a fighter jet there. I wonder if he is mistaken or if thats true.

I was also wondering why France hasn't said it sent a fighter jet up. But my translator was confident the goatherd was confident in what he was saying, if you know what I mean.

Searches have all been called off for the night as it's too dangerous in the dark. There are guards at crash site (via BBC Radio).

 

[PrairieWind]

[h=2]Orders & deliveries[/h]

Total orders
Total deliveries
In operation

A320 Family February 2015
[TD="align: right"]11537[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]6452
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]6191
[/TD]

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a320family/

I am a bit surprised how they are playing this as this really high rate of descent. An average 4000 ft a minute is not typical but generally would not stress structures. THe fact that they had reasonably stable speed during the entire event sequence indicates control of some sort. Pilot blogs refer to 3000-3500 feet as basically "typical".

The experts I have heard so far were saying much like you said, it was a fast decent, but not a drop or catastrophic decent. And it was clearly controlled as the speed remained fairly consistent. They really didn't know what to make of it.

 

[PrairieWind]

Apparently, an Italian military jet may have been in the area.


"Some experts claim that an Italian military jet switched its transponder to the emergency code of #7700 at 10.35, near where flight 4U9525 began its final descent.

Investigators should be quickly able to determine whether this emergency was a coincidence or possibly had some relevance to the passenger jet's demise."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ldorf-francois-hollande-Lufthansa-4U9525.html

Wow, that will stir up a lot of conspiracy theories!!

 

[Dr. Know?]

I read earlier this area is expecting some rough weather tomorrow. Haven't had time to check it out though. Also, like posted above, read that 5 men will remain at the site over night.

All to sad & too many aviation accidents, now with two A320's in a short period.

Just looking at the debris it looks like it just blew up upon impact. rip

 

[SouthAussie]

There was a safety warning issued 4 months ago on these planes, following a similar incident of a plane dropping at a fast rate of descent without pilot input. Same rate of descent, I believe.


"A safety warning was issued last year when a sister plane of that involved in today's accident suddenly lost altitude.

The European Air Safety Agency (EASA) issued an Emergency Airworthiness Directive after an Airbus A321 [same plane, but slightly longer, can carry 40 more passengers] went into an uncontrollable dive north of Pamplona, Spain before recovering.

According to the safety warning, the Lufthansa jet, with 109 passengers and crew aboard, was at 31,000 feet when it started to descend without any input from the pilot, at a rate of 4,000 feet per minute, before the flight crew managed to regain control at 28,000 feet.

According to the EASA, a safety system designed to protect the jet reacted to incorrect data due to a faulty sensor.

The safety warning related to all Airbus A318, A319, A320 and A321 – including the Airbus A320 involved in today's disaster.

In response, Airbus created a 'temporary revision' to all of the aircraft's flight manuals."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ldorf-francois-hollande-Lufthansa-4U9525.html

 

[zwiebel]

Dr Stephen Wright, University of Leeds, just said on BBC Radio that there are tiny flight paths for commercial airlines in this location and the kind of deviation seen here is very, very unusual.

British Foreign Sec just said 'highly likely' there were also British victims aboard.

 

[Dr. Know?]

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking · 3m3 minutes ago
Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond says "likely some British nationals" on board crashed #Germanwings flight http://bbc.in/1br6Bh4

 

[Zuri]

Translation of statement from goatherd from video I linked earlier (thanks, sleepy translator)

"11 in the morning we saw a plane....didn't realise it was flying so low....thought it was coming from Nice and not Marseille....at same time we saw ANOTHER PLANE that made movement to get out of way of this plane...thought it was going to hit it...then all of sudden we heard a noise, realised there had been an impact...it was like flying into a cul de sac..,,the fighter plane must have realised what was going on...."

So I'm guessing the French sent a fighter jet up to see what was happening with Germanwings, as soon as it started dropping?

Video link:
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-di...a320-a-chute-pendant-huit-minutes_857985.html

Thank you and your friend for translating the interview! Ok. My french isn't as bad as I thought. I heard him speak about about the other plane, and wanted to make sure I understood that correctly. I had no idea it was a fighter jet. Thank you again!

 

[Zuri]

IIRC, wasn't there an issue with the autopilot in a previous A320 crash? Where the plane's computer knew better than the pilots? My memory is bad today, so I apologize if this is incorrect.

 

[SouthAussie]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rbus-a320-crashes-in-french-alps-live-updates

 

[FranP]

Sources suggest that the speed of the plane shortly before the crash - about 350mph (300 knots) - might indicate engine failure as a cause. This is because 350mph is the speed a pilot would aim to reach before trying to "relight" the engines after a double engine failure, experts told Sky News.

http://news.sky.com/story/1451552/black-box-found-amid-mystery-over-crash-cause

No idea what could cause both engines to stall though - electrical failure, maybe?

 

[SouthAussie]

I read earlier this area is expecting some rough weather tomorrow. Haven't had time to check it out though. Also, like posted above, read that 5 men will remain at the site over night.

All to sad & too many aviation accidents, now with two A320's in a short period.

Just looking at the debris it looks like it just blew up upon impact. rip

Yes, there is a report here about how the weather conditions are expected to deteriorate overnight - so they will probably struggle with the search and recovery, as the site is apparently very difficult to reach anyway. No roads, just helicopter access ... which may not be possible in strong winds.


The remote location of the crash makes access difficult and conditions are expected to deteriorate over the next 12 hours as a storm system moves into the region, bringing rain, strong winds and high-elevation snow.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rbus-a320-crashes-in-french-alps-live-updates

 

[PrairieWind]

IIRC, wasn't there an issue with the autopilot in a previous A320 crash? Where the plane's computer knew better than the pilots? My memory is bad today, so I apologize if this is incorrect.

Yes. Maybe one of the pilots on here can explain it better, but essentially, as i understand it, the airbus flight computer can "over-ride" the pilots if it thinks they are operating the plane outside of certain parameters. The problem is that if the computer is itself is receiving incorrect information from malfunctioning sensors, it can actually prevent the pilots from saving the plane. I believe the pilots can actually switch off that function, but they must first understand what is happening, and that seems to be the problem: confusion and information overload.

 

[zwiebel]

British mother and baby among victims.

The Times of London (@thetimes) tweeted at 11:31pm - 24 Mar 15:

Tomorrow's front page: Pilots refuse to fly after crash horror in the Alps pic.twitter.com/qErPu2Ikzq (https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/580498874219008000?s=17)

 

[PrairieWind]

Sources suggest that the speed of the plane shortly before the crash - about 350mph (300 knots) - might indicate engine failure as a cause. This is because 350mph is the speed a pilot would aim to reach before trying to "relight" the engines after a double engine failure, experts told Sky News.

http://news.sky.com/story/1451552/black-box-found-amid-mystery-over-crash-cause

No idea what could cause both engines to stall though - electrical failure, maybe?

Oh wow, thats interesting. Another possibility. But i would think that even without any engine power, the plane would have glided better and not descended that fast. Anyone know?

 

[Dr. Know?]

Several Germanwings flights cancelled after crew refused to fly

Pilots and cabin crew refused to fly over concerns the Germanwings flight 4U 9525 crash may have been linked to a repair to the nose-wheel landing doors

Lufthansa admitted that several Germanwings flights had to be cancelled after crews refused to fly, but said it was because they were in “deep distress” over the accident.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ghts-cancelled-after-crew-refused-to-fly.html