Grand Jury True Bills John & Patsy Discussion thread

[freshwater]

Who in that house would have needed to look up the word "incest" in a dictionary? I find it almost impossible to believe that educated adults like PR and JR wouldn't know what incest is. Whose fingerprints were found on that page?

 

[midwest mama]

Who in that house would have needed to look up the word "incest" in a dictionary? I find it almost impossible to believe that educated adults like PR and JR wouldn't know what incest is. Whose fingerprints were found on that page?

Any of the household members would have been ignored and discounted as evidence. IF there was fingerprinting done of the dog ear, AND a print other than a Ramsey had been lifted, I would think it should have been more than thoroughly investigated.

I doubt BPD dusted the dictionary, but if it's still in evidence, not only dusting but testing for tDNA would be in order?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Any of the household members would have been ignored and discounted as evidence. IF there was fingerprinting done of the dog ear, AND a print other than a Ramsey had been lifted, I would think it should have been more than thoroughly investigated.

I doubt BPD dusted the dictionary, but if it's still in evidence, not only dusting but testing for tDNA would be in order?

You can get a time stamp on a fingerprint and it was a family dictionary


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[otg]

Any of the household members would have been ignored and discounted as evidence. IF there was fingerprinting done of the dog ear, AND a print other than a Ramsey had been lifted, I would think it should have been more than thoroughly investigated.

I doubt BPD dusted the dictionary, but if it's still in evidence, not only dusting but testing for tDNA would be in order?

As I recall, the dog-eared page and what was on it wasn't noticed until later while investigators were looking at crime-scene photos. The dictionary was not taken into evidence (nor any other books that were later made note of like the John Douglas book, nor the books thought to be sent by Nedra -- IIRC).

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

True, but it doesn't prove ongoing molestation by Burke. I think John was the abuser and Patsy was the one who opened the dictionary. Her own mother Nedra hinted that Patsy was abused as a girl.

And when was Don Paugh in Boulder? Didn't he make the parade float? And I think he babysat JonBenet and Burke before Christmas. I believe he left Christmas Eve and flew back to Atalanta.

And Pasty said Jonbenet rode in her car (a BMW ?) and named the maker, and in the search warrants it list a John's Jaguar, and a 1996 Jeep. I guess Pasty got a new suv for her birthday? She got a bike at Christmas, same as JonBenet.

 

[BBB167893]

Folks, ever since this horrendous crime occurred, the Ramseys and their goons have laid on enough whitewash to cover the Great Wall of China. And for a while, it seemed like it worked.

But it didn't. First, we got Jim Kolar's book, and now this. It's coming apart at the seams, and about time, too.

To that end, I'll say this: murder is never perfect. It ALWAYS comes apart sooner or later. And when two people are involved, it's usually sooner.

And to the people who have bombarded me with notions that one of them would have given up the other, a special message. That's easy to say, and on it's face, makes perfect sense. But it doesn't matter. Patsy and John may have hated each other's guts, but they still couldn't go against each other. Committing murder together isn't like taking a bus ride; they can't get off at different stops. They're STUCK with each other, and they've got to ride all the way to the end of the line, and the last stop is the cemetery.

 

[questfortrue]

Interesting to compare DA SG on the Midyette jury finding and the R GJ.
Midyette case, quote from Stan Garnett: I would never second-guess the decisions my predecessor made," says Garnett. "One of the things people forget is twelve members of my community sat and heard all the evidence in this case over a couple of weeks and returned a guilty verdict. I understand Ms. Midyette and her parents think that verdict is incorrect, but I have a lot of respect for the process, and I don't want to minimize or undercut what those folks went through, especially when it involves the death of a child." (credit to http://www.westword.com/2011-04-07/news/molly-midyette-speaks-out/9/)

Here's the R indictment statement from SG: “Which brings me to the "true bills" from the Ramsey grand jury. I became aware of the existence of these documents when I took office in 2009. I asked my appellate department to review them and was told that they related to charges for which the statute of limitations had run years ago. My staff evaluated the Ramsey case to determine if there was any charge for which the statute of limitations had not run and for which there was conclusive evidence. Because there was none, we focused on other matters (including four murders we tried in 2009, two of which were cold cases). My, or my staff's view of what the evidence in the Ramsey case proves will only be stated in open court if a case is ever filed. In the meantime, everyone, including the Ramsey family, is entitled to the full presumption of innocence.” (Credit to Daily Camera, guest editorial from SG)

What about respect for the R GJ who met for months and months? And, as SG knows, it also was over the death of a child. moo

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The January article about the GJ indicting the Ramseys was the #2-Most Viewed Article of 2013 on the Boulder Daily Camera website. #1 was photos of the Colorado floods. The Denver Post also publishes a list of the top articles (they have separate lists for Colorado readers and non-Colorado readers) and it will be interested to see where the 2013 articles about this case rank.

Here's something else I discovered: In January 1997, this case brought in 700,000 views in one week for the Boulder Daily Camera's website, which was 10x more than what they were getting prior. Today, in 2013, the Daily Camera brings in about 1.525 million views a week. That is not that big of an increase, when you consider it's been almost 20 years, how much the Internet has advanced in those years (the Camera's website was only 4 months old when JBR was killed and only 36% of households had a computer). I always thought that was a pretty crazy/interesting statistic.

ETA: Another article says they were getting 200,000 hits/day. Today, they get about 217,000 hits/day.

 

[tezi]

I am rereading "Death of Innocence" and I found the chapter on the Grand Jury. Just because as you folks know, I love to punish myself...LOL

Anyway, yesterday, I came across a part where John says something about NOT knowing that the Grand Jury indicted...I think he is lying, I think they KNEW they GJ voted to indict, but Hunter didn't sign the indictments. I am looking for the specific page in order to quote it. Does anyone else remember this? Or am I hallucinating...LOL

ETA: Found it. Chapter 33, page 378.

Of course, in the months that followed the grand jury's secret decision,there was much speculation by the media on what the grand jury really did conclude. To suggest it voted to indict and that the D.A. refused to go along, as some of the media have speculated, is pure folly.

BBM: Pure folly, you say? I think they knew, and just went along as before. Thoughts anyone?

 

[otg]

I am rereading "Death of Innocence" and I found the chapter on the Grand Jury. Just because as you folks know, I love to punish myself...LOL

I probably should try to get over it and go ahead and read DOI, but I just don't have enough masochistic tendencies. My hat goes off though to you or anyone else who can read it. (Tezi, do you have to keep a barf bag close by as you read it -- or do you read while in the bathroom?) uke:

Anyway, yesterday, I came across a part where John says something about NOT knowing that the Grand Jury indicted...I think he is lying, I think they KNEW they GJ voted to indict, but Hunter didn't sign the indictments. I am looking for the specific page in order to quote it. Does anyone else remember this? Or am I hallucinating...LOL

ETA: Found it. Chapter 33, page 378.

Of course, in the months that followed the grand jury's secret decision,there was much speculation by the media on what the grand jury really did conclude. To suggest it voted to indict and that the D.A. refused to go along, as some of the media have speculated, is pure folly.

BBM: Pure folly, you say? I think they knew, and just went along as before. Thoughts anyone?

ITA that they knew the results of the GJ. I posted once before about the "chummy" relationship between lawyers. I think what happened with the GJ was an "open secret" among those in the legal community. And I can't imagine that one of their lawyers didn't tell them, along with the advice to not tell anyone so they would be able to constantly remind people that "the GJ didn't indict us." (And they did remind us, even before the added bonus of Lacy's Grant of Absolution that those who don't know better refer to as an exoneration.)

 

[tezi]

I probably should try to get over it and go ahead and read DOI, but I just don't have enough masochistic tendencies. My hat goes off though to you or anyone else who can read it. (Tezi, do you have to keep a barf bag close by as you read it -- or do you read while in the bathroom?) uke:

ITA that they knew the results of the GJ. I posted once before about the "chummy" relationship between lawyers. I think what happened with the GJ was an "open secret" among those in the legal community. And I can't imagine that one of their lawyers didn't tell them, along with the advice to not tell anyone so they would be able to constantly remind people that "the GJ didn't indict us." (And they did remind us, even before the added bonus of Lacy's Grant of Absolution that those who don't know better refer to as an exoneration.)

BWHAAAAAA! Both otg, both....

Yes, I think they knew about the indictments, they had to have known...Lacy knew, but yet gave them the "Grant of Absolution," and went on to bring Karr back...I am still just shaking my head about that. Karr and his prawns....LOL

The silence from John Ramsey is deafening. Just deafening...

JMO

 

[questfortrue]

I am rereading "Death of Innocence" and I found the chapter on the Grand Jury. Just because as you folks know, I love to punish myself...LOL

Anyway, yesterday, I came across a part where John says something about NOT knowing that the Grand Jury indicted...I think he is lying, I think they KNEW they GJ voted to indict, but Hunter didn't sign the indictments. I am looking for the specific page in order to quote it. Does anyone else remember this? Or am I hallucinating...LOL

ETA: Found it. Chapter 33, page 378.

Of course, in the months that followed the grand jury's secret decision,there was much speculation by the media on what the grand jury really did conclude. To suggest it voted to indict and that the D.A. refused to go along, as some of the media have speculated, is pure folly.

BBM: Pure folly, you say? I think they knew, and just went along as before. Thoughts anyone?

ITA. Have wondered who let them in on it. Remember JR's response in January: "Just more drama." Dismissive, derisive. He knew. moo

 

[gramcracker]

to claim that he/they didn't know about the indictments is pure folly

those two quoted sentences reek of arrogance, condescension, self-righteousness, entitlement, and an appalling lack of character. because the world knows that he/they participated in the death of their daughter, and scurried from the light of investigation like cockroaches and from the healing of accountability and atonement like cowards

 

[tezi]

ITA. Have wondered who let them in on it. Remember JR's response in January: "Just more drama." Dismissive, derisive. He knew. moo

Yes, I remember that...He's a piece of work, that's for sure.

 

[tezi]

to claim that he/they didn't know about the indictments is pure folly

those two quoted sentences reek of arrogance, condescension, self-righteousness, entitlement, and an appalling lack of character. because the world knows that he/they participated in the death of their daughter, and scurried from the light of investigation like cockroaches and from the healing of accountability and atonement like cowards

BBM, entitlement, that was the word I was looking for. He felt like he was "entitled" to share with everyone the pure folly about the grand jury and the D.A.

Yeah, he knew....I'd bet the farm he knew.

JMO

 

[otg]

(bbm)

to claim that he/they didn't know about the indictments is pure folly

those two quoted sentences reek of arrogance, condescension, self-righteousness, entitlement, and an appalling lack of character. because the world knows that he/they participated in the death of their daughter, and scurried from the light of investigation like cockroaches and from the healing of accountability and atonement like cowards

Wow, gram, why don't you tell us how you really feel -- don't hold back. :giggle:

(ITA, BTW)

 

[tezi]

Folks, ever since this horrendous crime occurred, the Ramseys and their goons have laid on enough whitewash to cover the Great Wall of China. And for a while, it seemed like it worked.

But it didn't. First, we got Jim Kolar's book, and now this. It's coming apart at the seams, and about time, too.

To that end, I'll say this: murder is never perfect. It ALWAYS comes apart sooner or later. And when two people are involved, it's usually sooner.

And to the people who have bombarded me with notions that one of them would have given up the other, a special message. That's easy to say, and on it's face, makes perfect sense. But it doesn't matter. Patsy and John may have hated each other's guts, but they still couldn't go against each other. Committing murder together isn't like taking a bus ride; they can't get off at different stops. They're STUCK with each other, and they've got to ride all the way to the end of the line, and the last stop is the cemetery.

The BBM part has me laughing...They can't get off on individual stops, they are stuck with each other. Now that Patsy has passed, John is stuck with all of the lies...

JMO

 

[tezi]

(bbm)
Wow, gram, why don't you tell us how you really feel -- don't hold back. :giggle:

(ITA, BTW)

LOL...Don't hold back from telling us how you feel, anyone!

 

[Nom de plume]

to claim that he/they didn't know about the indictments is pure folly

those two quoted sentences reek of arrogance, condescension, self-righteousness, entitlement, and an appalling lack of character. because the world knows that he/they participated in the death of their daughter, and scurried from the light of investigation like cockroaches and from the healing of accountability and atonement like cowards

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Perfectly stated gramcracker!

 

[ashleigh_schwartz]

I am new here and previously prided myself on lurking, but I just had to comment.

I have always thought that BR or JAR murdered JBR. I honestly can't see JR and PR taking this secret to the grave if it was one of them. They weren't that loving of a couple, but they always had each other's backs when it came to this. When I read that they were being indicted for accessory to first degree murder, I thought it had to be one of JBR's brothers again.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe BR had showed aggression toward JBR before she died. Didn't he hit her over the head with a gulf club on two different occasions and the injuries were severe enough for her to be sent to the ER? I don't think it is a coincidence that she was similarly struck over the head the night she died. On the other hand, neither PR nor JR had showed such aggression toward JBR before she died, at least that I know of, and that is why this pattern is key to me because in cases such as these, there is usually evidence of the murderer being aggressive or violent toward the victim beforehand. BR's prints were also on the pineapple bowl and he could've easily been the one to feed JBR that or give it to her.

I just don't think it was PR and never have.