*graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

[wenwe4]

there are instructions in this TSI that tells the evaulator how to do the sumary scales if they are handscoring . . .no specific language that indicates it is mandatory to provide summary scales . . . this added requirement or this Janene Demarte did a bad job . should be done the way scales said.

i never used the word bad
were you praiseful?
no
criticize her work - TSI
only partially . . .. she should have known and she did not evidently know they were there or understand
how do you know . . can you minds?

never saw anything in writing that indicated from her said she didn't know

objection
may we appraoch
yes
you
may
approach

 

[wenwe4]

you made that leap that she didn't know the TSI summary scales - you don't know

requirement you believe exists . .
i never said required . . . the word required is not used in any manuals - provided any materials she

summary scales . . . aren't they jsut 3 readings?
define what you mean by readings
exhibit #646

count with me - one two three . .
we call them scales
three areas with a summary - summary scales for a reason - summarize box to the left - 10 areas or sites that the test addresses . . .10 readings - 10 scales reported - validity scales

3 scales to the right . . . what they merely do is summarize the scales
leave out merely
they do summarize what is here
full scales
this is sort of a short cut scale
not a good termu

summary means whole thing
compilation of the test

to be honest you don't need summary scalse you had 35 years . . .
you dealt with TSI test
no it was produced 20 years ago

TSI 1 or 2 - 20 years - given this test many times . .. many times look @ all these scales here and know what they mean.

you need the summary to be able to tell you what these scales mean?
no
thank

regard this trauma symptom inventory #646 - looks @ trauma symptoms . . not personality like MMPI - Minnesota Multiphasic Personality inventory

is TSI studied a lot . .. probably nothing as much as the MMPI

looks @ trauma of the person reporting taking the test
symptoms . . anxious arousal, depression, defenseive avoidance, dissociation, sexual concerns, impaired self reference . . .dysfunctial sexual behavior . . in general . . .are they satisfied with number of partners any unpleasant behaviors . . . dysfunctional unprotected sex . .. person take test given number 0 -3

zero means nothing and 3 means for example question number 20 on the TSI
objection
may we approach

 

[wenwe4]

Similar profile but not the exact same . . . below clinical . . he does not have her number he has her report

John Greer - profile we are looking @ this talks to trauma not personality - in general yes


PSI = identified with people with borderline personality disorder - exhibit #652 . . . people hospitalized with psychiatric disorders

doesn't he indicate under pscho summary in inpatient psyciatric sample . . .

look @ exhibit #652 . . . you asked if John Greer said that . . . he is the author of the test- copywrite . . .validity scales of TSI - on his letterhead

I thought it was PAR letterhead . . . it is not his letter head - looks like his website . . .it is his letterhed
i move the admission of #652
approach?
you may

witness coughing - drinking more water

 

[wenwe4]

You have no doubts or doubts John Greer put this out
no opinion

89% of those have diagnosed as borderline personality disorder . .
yes
you are confusing 2 different studies

let's talk about that study . . are you saying it is your opinion that governs . . . this does not indicate or has no correlation to borderline disorder .. . it is a double negative - i can't agree .. i can't say it

you were asked a double negative by counsel . . you didn't asked to clarify - commented on it but before clarify

this particular exhibit #646 - you told us previously this profile for lack of better term had no correlatoin to Borderline Personality Disorder
no I am not saying either - you are asking different questions asked before

i am not answer either not yes or no
does that correlate with PTSD . . .
even though John Greer . . in a sample TSI identified 89% of those with borderline personlaity disorder . ..

there is a study that has abused this . . . different correlation than is this test used to confirm borderline personality disorder.

correlation . . this study suggest there is - not that i have read it.
you criticism of Janene Demarte work would be invalid
no sir
isn't it true even though studies out there look @ this test as important with regard to borderline personality disorder

no completely different question
to say this test is used to diagnose . .
we have agreed this tests cannot be used to diagnose PTSD or borderline personlaity disorder.

you took issue with her using that test - whether in her mind indicated borderline personality even though there are tests studies that say there is a correlation

you keep asking different questions . . according to the study you just quoted . . .there is a study to say . . . there may be a correlation but not

if there is a study or test . . . general intelligence to be considered

there is a correlation between PTSD and borderline

you are saying John Greer should not be considered
no i didn't say that
janene demarte said borderline personalty
not appropriate to use TSI to diagnose Borderline
even John Brier ? says 89% TSI diagnoses borderline personality disorder

how many autopsys have you conducted i know you have conducted a lot . . .
never
taken a look inside the brain
no sir
a brain that decomposed . . done a autopsy on that
ever been at an autopsy?
ever even been at autopsy
i think i was there after not actually opening the person

never been to autopsy feel confident in offering opinion in what was TA's brain

not comfy wording that way . . i am relying on med exminaer report what went onthere

i assume everything he wrote is accurate

apparent because brain was consistent with tapioca (pudding)

apparent . . word you used was . . . .

apparent brain injury . .

apparent means some skill applied in determining that brain injury - i would assume - decompose

you vouched for the PDS . . . assess PTSD . . . didn't matter to you if trauma caused by a bear or tiger?
not it mattered to me - just if the test results changed

not what important . . . that is a reaction to an event
individual making report - no validity scales

have the defendant sit here and without scripted questions and tell me about what is ailing you . . . traumatically speaking

can we have psychologist asking questions - same as clinical interview but no validity scales and issue of secondary gain

even though an indidual may have been untruthful about the trauma is of no importance to you . . . whole bunch words dded

question 4 tells you what you are answering the questoin about

there are abunch of things . . .question 14

pick the traumatic event that troubles them
ever administered this PDS test?
don't use it that much - 3 or 4 years ago . . .quite a few before the Dafs came out because it had validity scales ..

10 times or ball park figure
not as familiar now as 5 or 10 years ago . . . used relatively often assessing trauma - somewhere 20 - 40 rought estimate

bubble sheet attached to it . . give person test and the question and they are supposed to fill in bubble sheet
objection - may we approach?
yes

 

[wenwe4]

If this person had no traumatic event i would go back and ask what they were talking about if they had these scales.

if this person is untruthful to you if you are sitting face to face . . wouldn't that raise a red flag to you?
yes

show you some exhibits . . .

#654 and #653 . . . take a look @ those photographs
are you familiar with those photos
no sir -

are you familiar with these pictures
never seen them before
photos depict inside of person skull
those arrows point to the skull
they point to inside the skull

dont hold them up

neuro-psychologist can you tell us the trajectory of the bulletinside the skull - no not likely without more explanation

if you did need to find out about the trajectory
you would go to expert
or read the ME report
you have read the ME report
I would rely on the ME report - what the examiner is trajectory is truthful

you are here to tell us what you read in report
based solely on the ME report

part of it . . . other part about the brain itself how it functioned
that is your experience and expertise - you carry that with you

you based on reading of report
and my knowledge of the brain
indicated if you really wanted more explanation you would go to expert yourself
yes sir
i don't have anything
redirect
may we arpproach

 

[Softail]

Day 54 - Part 3

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 54 - Part 3 (Cross starts) - YouTube

Part 4 - Jodi Arias Trial - Day 54 - Part 4 - YouTube

 

[wenwe4]

JVM interviewing Sean Alexander - TA's former roomie . . not related. He met JA first time @ an LDS church - JA came up behind TA and started sucking on his ear and neck . . . Sean thought this extremely inappropriate. . . said hey dude looks like you got - (something) on your neck.

my wife name Jodi spelled same way - TA said hey if we ever get married both our wives would have same name

I said same name but not same character - that is last I ever said to TA

 

[wenwe4]

you ready? JW to Dr.

O'roark case . . judge said you were hired gun . . . paid to say to fit what is wanted from them . . .
how you define it - yes one of the ways to define it

is that how you define the case
child custody case wihith a pbatered woman - at least 2 kids we dealt with . . whole battery of test and records - clear the children and the woman had been abused= . . testified about our eval and tried to . . major flaws in the experts done the reports in the court - appointed by the court . . worked frequently with that judge . . . they obviously used inappropriate tests neuro-psych tests . .

children who did not want to live with teh father . . . he didn't see opinion for quite some time - 2 things happened . . .

one thing
objection
sustaiend
may we approach?

 

[wenwe4]

clark case you gave an affidavit . . limited scope of what you wer basing . . you didn't have the time to review to have a more comprehensive affidavit . .

no i said i only had time to do x amount . . what the limits . . did not have the time . . not complete based on hearsay - not going to allow it . . nothin on my integrity . . . nothing with integrity

there was a french case . . the name was French

testimony was excluded?
no this was a kidnapping case . . woman and child abused - he was not involved . . she took her child and ran away . . he was asked about domestic violence - judge said no you can't answer that part of it.

the appellate court indicated his credentials . . everything he knew based upon his expertise.

one particular area - that is up to the jury to decide
nothing to do with credentials . . great credentials and credibitiy.
yes judge actually said . .
objection- sustained

court note you had excellent credentials
yes
how
indi catec
objection (number 387th in the last 30 seconds)

approach please

(TG!)

 

[wenwe4]

you were not allowed to testify on a minor part on a legal conclusion
yes
excellent credentials and specific expertise
yes

thank you

 

[wenwe4]

not getting paid for this testimony but money will be paid to the non-profit institute = hopefully

Dr. Gatchell - study about MMPI and floating profiles . .
show exhibit #629?

study you were asked about
yes
what is your opinion - they are not dealing with floating profile . . formerly known as . . . what is known in the field . . .disablity profile . . . term he used for dealing with a pain . . pain relationship to borderline

call it a disablity profile - yes because the research came out . . he then modified and revised because it was inappropriate . . link it to people chronic pain . . borderline if associated with chronic pain - specific to that population.

article of simulating borderline personality disorder on the MMPI 2 . . may I approach?
read a certain paragraph

understanding of taht article reflective of . . .how people might do on MMPI if tehy pretended to be borderline . . .

suggest MMPI diagnose borderline?
no - not diagnose but associations . . . one thing to predict something . . diagnsis is predict that is major difference

you can't say borderline predicts PTSD . . what are they associate with . . . this looks @ what the profile is . . in order to fit this article you have to fit specific . . he did not have me read and I didn't read it prior.

talk aobut it being elevated - score of the F scale . . score right here is 79% this article says to be considered in their connection to borderline personality . . . it would have to be 96% the FP scale . . her score also need to be elevated and hers is not elevated at all . . in this study you would have a profile that looks something like this . . we don't ha ve that . . nothing to do with what we are talking about . . misleading i was not allowed to say where those scores are

MMPI - causeyou concern of malingering?
not necessary these but come over to validity scale

F scale , L scale, K scale . . this scale up here is in the clinical range - need to be cautious doesn't say why . . malingering, elevation

symptom severity - get alot of the symptoms . . a lot of symptoms . . well person could be exaggerating . . malinger or secondary gain argument

more interpret for a cry for help - major distress . . those all working hypothesis . . look @ other tests - theoreticaly you should not . . then talk to the person

schizophrenia scale elevated . . back of MMPI actual subscales -
one things they do . . . this research takes those clinical scale and break into subscales and determine whiy more elevated.

Tscore - is this person really psychotoci . . this person is alienated toward self and others, no ego mastery - 2 really extreme things pulling this scale up . . not psychotic or schizophrenic but having a lot of emotion . . go thru and narrow down a bit = so many scales elevated need to

in order to diagnose you are required to do these other things . . beyond the clinical and validty . . other tests, records, etc.

asked about scales HY and PD . . .hysteria . . term is psychopathic deviance - not a good term . . probably relable those . . impulsivity anti-authority scale - doesn' tmean deviant or impulsive

these scales were elevated . . yes or no if indicated borderline personality
not designed to assess borderline personality
can someone with borderline personality have this . . yes but not backward . . can't use this to diagnose borderline

the milan . . .

borderline is elevated then you look @ more . . . but borderline not elevated - not even close

Dr. Brierre . . you know him ?
oh yes . .
work with him in creating TSI - i have known him a long time . .before it ever got published . . he is at the University of Southern Calif . . known for 25 years now . . instructions vs. mandatory summary scales . .

when you give TSI do you do summary scales
because it gives you complete picture of that test - why not . . can you tell if there is an elevation in trauma oh yes . . but that scale says trauma itself is a clinical issues - elevated . . overall trauma is in the clinical range - not just an add 0n - key part of overall interpretation of the test

no real reason not to do it . . . no test is going to require you . . they assume you know how to give test and how to score . . redundant to say you are supposed to do this and this - we are supposed to know how

the summary scales can be scored manually if score whole test manually

 

[wenwe4]

large overlap of borderline personality and PTSD . . if you have borderline you have to have those traits prior to the trauma - if not you don't list the personality disorder.

familair with ME report . . not trying to say you are med dr. or ME . .
not trying to say either
understand how brain works and brain injuries . . . asked questions about the word apparent . . .

dr horn writes or apparent cerebral injury - yes

regardless if you can examine a brain or if decomposed

any way for the duramater remained in tact if something pierced thru the brain
not that I am aware of

i am assuming all informtio nwas accurate - have no info otherwise.

PDS test . . secondar gain . . person have reason to lie on PDs to look worse than they are - end of hte test symptom severity score . . yes

exhibit #535 . . . symptom severity score . . number 33

what is max?
51
exaggerating their symptoms would you expect to see this number higher
yes if they are trying to fake, look worse or malinger - assuming theydon't know how to take a test . .

with regard to ME . . trajectory of the bullet - rely on his report and what he said where bullet ended up and where it it went in . .

where bullet went . . .
what Dr. Horn sayd

forehead ended up behind cheek - ended up in cheek . . nasal cavity ended up . . . frontal lobe trajectory going down . . i

not really going thru major part of the brain . . and duramator intact

is it possible bullet didn't go thru brain
possible yes
sinus cavity . . in front of the brain
duramator was intact during time Dr. Horne examined . . can you make conclusion becauese of that
objection - sustained

regard to brain if it did go thru part of the brain somehow - Dr. Horn report is incorrect about the duramator thru the right frontal lobe . . any problems make the person immeidatley incapacitated
no
just based on previous patients?
no

 

[wenwe4]

missed some juror questions . .

if you are diagnosing based on outdated data . . .poses problem . . next month DSM 5 but if it way in the past not a good idea

TSI 2 compared to TSI 1 questions?

there are 26 questions new or re-written . . 6 taken out . . . so now 120 some questions

PDS can be valid even if lied about who perp was and when happeend (or what event is)

if lied about the event then yes that is important

i would ask what is going on . . if this didn't happen - i have results that this person has ptsd . . .what else happened . .up to me why does this diagnosis occurring . . why this person showing PTSD . . still gotta figure out why symptoms and do they know enough to fake it. . . that is why you use more than one test . . can't fake over number of tests

lack of hemmorage gunshot wound to teh brain . can it also mean it occurred after death therefore no active bleeding
gunshot occurred after death

depends on how long . . even after death still some kind of blood unless it is so far after no hemmorage but you would still see damage

gunshot to the brain . . to the front side . . soem of the those studies . . they had shotguns . . really incapacittate . .

large guns or short distance - didn't capacity . . . more of those go thru the side = assuming not hit spinal cord or brain stem . . it would have to be pretty major damage to the brain . . incompaciate couldn't move arms or legs

the institute on violence and family trauma - bills out for our servicesw . . general rate $250 per hour - worked in November . . work for few months then don't do anything . . we bill out @ 85 per hour sliding scale for

for myself and others - 70-80 hours . . somewhere around $13K, or $14K back int to the institute . .about 20% of our entire budget with all the other things we do.

direct outcome on tests . . . get people to pretend they have particular disorder . . pretend you have this disorder .. . research looks to people who try to fake it . . it distinguish people from others . . validity scale gives more confidence results correct.

it possible to manipulating MMPI, MCMI, PDS, TSI . . .someone with training i do . . unfortunately you can go on internet tell you about the TSI and MMPI . . whole batery of tests . . do it in a way that doesn't show up as faking - answer 800 or 900 questions or remembering 2 years later exactly what you said if you were faking it would not be possible

don't go crazy over one result . . .someone faking or not real . . should pay attention to it if doing a professional job . . if Dr. Demarte had supporting information would you see it included in her report
she did indicate support borderline . . . most of these had to do with things afte the incident - after the itneraction with TA . .

he doesn't know if they are accurate or not . . . .based on her report . . . you can't meet one when 14 and one when 25 and one when 38 . . you have to have a pattern prior to the event . . if you have that . . doesn't give you the right to eliminate . .

objeciton -sustaiend

common to score high on anxeity when close to a tria . . . elevated not clinical significant not always the same

spent in jail - possible of death or life in prison cause elevation why assume these traits from 2008
not my role - i never evaluated - i never assumed that
objection - sustained

when you evaluated thse tests did you know they were jA's
i knew they were hers i didn't know her

do you think what you knew of the test . . if i knew about details of thecase . . there is a potential for bias . . follow an agenda if i had one . .
she was on trial for murder for killing ex-boyfriend . .. we look @ the tests . . .

i would n't venture to know what was goingon . .

one more question in the basket
please approach

 

[wenwe4]

possible bullet trajectory changed . . yes
can you give us bullet trajectory - no

Dr. Demarte . . . i was informed by defensee counsel - when asked about summary scales she did not know it existing . . . not using it is one thing . . using against . . another thing . . .someone can chose to not use it .. . trying to diagnose borderline is not appropriate . .

not using MMPI - all those supplemental scales not supported by research . . .there are entire books written over many years

not gong to pay attention for a reason is one thing but . . not using information is a whole other . .. not trained in how to use

follow up
JW

you were asked about Dr. Samuels using DSM 4 . . . i didn't say that I assumed 3 . . .if he used DSM 4 instead of TR . . not as much a problem . . i may have misunderstood . . tr have major changes in PTSD . . no - didn't change criteria for PTSD

not likely . . . i would have to go back . . my recollection that didn't lead to major changes in diagnosis

PDS test as though there is a trauma - answer questions . . . PDS they suffered from a trauma but it turns out there is no trauma at all . . is that a problem for you - validity problems

it would create questions . . if no trauma what going on why trauma symptoms . . i don't have an answer but that is the question i would need to answer in order to dismiss that test..

different than someone answering about a trauma the trauma they had life threatened does it mattered if it is stranger or someone they knew?
it matters because you want accurate but stranger or someone they knew. .first what is particular event and 2nd why person listed something else

that person did caus that trauma we need to find out.

meet criteria for PTSD . . . Mcmi - TSI 2 . . . all consistent with anxiety and trauma . .

manipulate testss. . TSi tests 2 given by 2 differnt Mental health providers 1.5 years apart - similar elevations and 2 TSI tests. . .look @ validity scales . .. if elevated then not valid . .
with them valid and similar profiles over that period of time . .lend to accurate portrayal what is going on . . very hard to fake some way 1.5 years later

that partiuclar test referenced certain time period by Dr. Demarte . . .

all these tests - conducted over 2 year period . . 2009 to 2011 . .most recent test given nearly 2 years ago . . .furtherst test about 4 years ago . . .long before started trail....regardless when given pattern of consistency in all tests from 2009 - 2011 - makes more likely whatever is saying is correct and accurate and dealt iwth and diagnosed.

more support for workng hypothessis. . .

Borderline personality - Dr. Demarte reviewed and noted in report other factors . . meet pattern of criteria support borderline prior to traumatic event

based on what reported by Dr. Demarte . . appartently

still cant exclude
object
approach

 

[wenwe4]

Borderline Personality doesn't exclude PTSD or Anxiety . . you have to justify why all these consistent results

bullets path of travel . . change direction . . .not his speciality . . what brain can do . . right hand side over the eyebrow and ended up in left cheek - thru his sinuses

deflected into what area . . . to right and left motor to incacatate . . speech . .what ever you say what that person could not do . . motor strips located

frontal parietal . . . in center and frontal on both sides . .

bullet entered from where lodged arrow straight not touch areas of incacity

duramater was intact . . it would have to have to be ....one thing has to be if damage inside there has to be entry from outside.

no more quesrtions

JM - pattern of consistenty in the test

take look element #631 elevated . . .F scale . .

validty scale elevated
yes 2 of them are elevated . . issue of malingering
can be issue of secondary gain . . .

lied on 2 tests isn't that pattern

lie vs. exaggerated symptom of severity

do you go to the ALV school of
objection

if tehy exaggerate they are still lying . .
when does exaggerate become a lie . . 10% or 20% or 30%
not a percent . . you have other things to look @ need to be cautious

this person display many symptoms
didnt you tell me

when exaggeration become a lie
not same thing
2 different dimensions you are asking - having hard time answering

if prosecutor said he was 6' tall . . is that exaggerating or lie
probably both

if he said 6'2" . .
don't know definitive cut off that i know about . .
anyone can exaggerate that becomes a lie
do you believe this prosecutor is 6' tall
no
prosector said 6'2"
could be either exaggeration or lie . . .no specific cut off . . @ 5'8" or 5'9"

i asked you about 6'2 remember
objection
approach please

 

[wenwe4]

indication of elevated scales . . .clinical . . above threshhold . . above the level clinical . . 2 of them . . have 2 of them more than 1 . . indicate exaggeration . .

they give you 3 possible indicators . . one is exaggeration . . you are chosing to ignore exaggeration and just look @ the others
could be exageration akin to or same thing as lie
answer no

ever a time you consider exaggeration consider lie
i probably not use lie on the F scale
answer never
correct

PDS test administered . . if someone gave me a lie regard to event trigger basis for PTSD you indicated you would not say they are lying . . . the trauma is valid i wanna know why they lied

if they lied about the event - they could lie about symptoms - yes could

still consider it valid?
no valid not correct

can't answer yes or no
she said it wasn't true . . .assume she said it wasn't true . . we all know . .
that test indicates
assume that is course of eents in this case . .
still valid to exhibit #550
no i am not . ..

it is something to call into question validity of this test
you are using word validty not appropriate it would call into question evalution of this test results.

validity of this MMPI . . precurser an invalid result
no you just confused 2 things
this profile is not invalid profile

this being valid profile . . very different saying that one is invalid so therfore this is invalid too mixing apples and oranges

valid result there may be exaggeration - among other things

how long ago did DSM 4 come out . . DMS 3 no longer in print . probably no

DSM 4 TR

talked about TSI 1 and 2 . . .
when was TSI 1 summer 2011 from Janene Demarte . . . can look @ date . . .Aug 2011 . . when did the the TSI 2 came out Feb or Mar of 2011 . . . difference 6 months. .

6 months lot shorter than 10 years . . .regard other book . . . there are changes in this book published (TR)

objection approach

 

[wenwe4]

I need to hang this up for the day . . .

DSM 4 in 1990's
DSM TR came out 2000 approx . . . 10 years . . .

DSM 4 mid 90's at least 5 yearss . . .
psychologist use this as bible to diagnose
intimately familiar with this book
isn't that work that you do?
we don't

 

[wenwe4]

missed JW . . .
even though you couldn't see wound track . . .
enter right rontal lobe
right frontal crandium
travelled in this direction and came out this cavity
no further questions to Dr. Horn from Jm

a juror question - counsel please approach

 

[wenwe4]

100% of people you see with this injury are deceased?
I would hope so

JM - does that gunshot wound change your opinion . .
if he was alive @ the time
if he was dead that could account for the blood - it could

based on training and experience I have to rely on cases I have seen
one more question from the jury - counsel please approach

 

[wenwe4]

your report said no damage to the durameter can there be damage to brain if no damage to the duramater

typographical error in his report - there had to have been injury to durameter

there would have to have been durameter . . dura sits on where the bone fractured - it would have to be damaged.

no further questions

JW do you understand this is capital case - serious case
objection relevance . . . X2

interviewed by defense counsel . . . no time did you report note durameter damage . . . i just asked you that your report was correct
you are saying there is an error - you made a mistake

typographical error - it would have had to enter the brain - must have damaged the durmater.

no further questions
State calls Jim Ace?