Gravestone Jetties near Oak Beach

[scandi]

Weird in that tombstone jetties are out of the ordinary. In light of the bodies lined up along that particular shoreline, it seems possible the killer sees that area as a graveyard. It would perhaps, be... poetic to him. Whatever the case, hopefully LE has checked the tombstones that are directly across from each set of remains to see if the killer left anything of significance my bold. If they found nothing, then it rules out any psychological significance those tombstones may hold for the killer. Otoh, if they found something, then it is but another piece in the killer's psychological puzzle.

Hi Shadowraiths and thanks for the thread.

You say "across from each set of remains. I'm puzzled as I thought the tombstones are way down in the water and not put there in any organized way - thrown or dropped in.

Also, why are there so many 'messed up' tombstones on LI? I read 800 which seems extreme to me on which mistakes were made. :waitasec: Ta

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't get why these are weird things.

Beats me. We use tombstones to pave the walkway up to our back porch. We usually try not to step on "mother" though, as she had a bad back in life and we don't want to add to her troubles on the heavenly plane.

 

[shadowraiths]

You say "across from each set of remains. I'm puzzled as I thought the tombstones are way down in the water and not put there in any organized way - thrown or dropped in.

Yeah, I figured they just broke them up and scattered them around, so they would not be "recognizable" as tombstones. That is, they would look like chunks of granite, some with etchings and most would not notice. My thought was that if the killer(s) knew about their existence they might play into his fantasy. In which case, he might say, mark them or something of that nature. In any event, from what others are saying, you'd apparently have to dive to get to them. So, even if the stones held some significance for them, it would likely be only in thought. The ambience. As opposed to, say, marking their territory.

 

[shadowraiths]

I think Mike/Jim is full of it. The stones are in water. How was he "standing on them looking out to the bay"?

It seems the answer to this question can be answered by viewing the video internetgirl101 found.

http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2011/06/84-year_old_investigator_searc.html

This 84 year old investigator from Jersey City travels to Oak Beach to trace Shannan Gilbert's steps and talk to Gus Coletti.

 

[scandi]

It seems the answer to this question can be answered by viewing the video internetgirl101 found.

Our Internetgirl101 sure is 'Da Bomb' at research. ;} Thanks Shadowraiths for the O/T.

Watching the video I was reminded that it was dark out when she was running around, whereas at first we thought it was already light. The opening shots of the video put me right there and it seemed the streets were quite narrow. How did she know where she was going? We read the person who she named in the 911 call was someone she knew, right? Was it her Mom that said that? It must be she had been there before so knew the lay of the land.

The old man said he didn't think she went into the water. I don't think so either.

Did we ever learn if the general dirt in the area is mostly sand, to where a foot would easily establish a print?

 

[KPCrimeNY]

Our Internetgirl101 sure is 'Da Bomb' at research. ;} Thanks Shadowraiths for the O/T.

Watching the video I was reminded that it was dark out when she was running around, whereas at first we thought it was already light. The opening shots of the video put me right there and it seemed the streets were quite narrow. How did she know where she was going? We read the person who she named in the 911 call was someone she knew, right? Was it her Mom that said that? It must be she had been there before so knew the lay of the land.

The old man said he didn't think she went into the water. I don't think so either.

Did we ever learn if the general dirt in the area is mostly sand, to where a foot would easily establish a print?

You are surrounded by beaches, water and dunes. I'm going with pretty sandy. But, there is also spots on those roads and around them (just to the side) where you would be able to see prints in parts of the land that have been well patted down by traffic and wear. make sense?

 

[goathairjones]

Our Internetgirl101 sure is 'Da Bomb' at research. ;} Thanks Shadowraiths for the O/T.

Watching the video I was reminded that it was dark out when she was running around, whereas at first we thought it was already light. The opening shots of the video put me right there and it seemed the streets were quite narrow. How did she know where she was going? We read the person who she named in the 911 call was someone she knew, right? Was it her Mom that said that? It must be she had been there before so knew the lay of the land.

The old man said he didn't think she went into the water. I don't think so either.

Did we ever learn if the general dirt in the area is mostly sand, to where a foot would easily establish a print?

Scandi,

I was in Oak Beach the other night doing a "recon" mission and I did try and see where JC was talking about when he said "We saw her footprints in the sand". But, believe it or not, there isn't a whole lot of sand anywhere near the houses. It was mostly dirt. I'm sure this dirt had a big percentage of sand in it. But it wasn't "beach sand' that you would be able to see a footprint left behind. And the driveways down there were either stone or crushed shells. So if you look at the google or bing map satellite photos, the only place you will see "beach sand" is down on the water, between the jetties. Otherwise it's probably crushed shells over dirt.

 

[21merc7]

Just found this thread.

All along I thought the Town of Babylon had something to do with it, now I find out that gravestones are tossed at the waters edge. Interesting...

 

[downport]

One final (?) note on the tombstones. I had completely forgotten about this very minor story till I read this thread. I recall reading about this guy noticing them & 'solving' the mystery. It was a little human interest story, amusing & easily forgetable. I would be willing to bet 99.9 % of LI's population doesn't know about them & the same percentage would react as I did - ' oh that's kinda weird', laugh & have no reason to ever think about it again.
As for why there would be so many - I don't know if people realize just how (over IMO) populated LI is, plus we have a he'll of a lot of cemetaries for our own as well as Queens & Brooklyn residents & thus a lot of stone cutters for grave stones. 800 screw up over who knows how many years isn't that much.

This Jim Jones guy ? ummmm . . . seriously pal, talk about an over-active imagination, sheesh get real !

The 'footprints in the sand' seems far fetched to me & I don't buy it for a second. The sand doesn't come up to the road. If you've ever seen these beaches - there's no way you get all the way down to the sand & sudenly pick up 'foot prints'. No way, not happening.

 

[Peter Brendt]

May someone familiar with LI can help me out here, since I live too far away and maybe have another SK in my nearer vicinity anyway. But how long do you drive from the area where the first four bodies were found to the area, where JT's body parts were found? As far as I understand the maps, someone would pass first the second drop site to come to the first one? Is that correct?
And on the matter of tombstones, people would be surprised how common it is to "re-use" grave markers that way or in other "building projects". But those tomb stones were in the water and to make them feel the area like graveyard for the killers (at least two working independent), he would have to know about them. If you look at the timeline, all four victims, we can pin to LISK (excluding here MV Torso), were killed in summer till early September. That indicates, he is not a local. And how would a non-local know about the tombstones.

 

[Redbird]

May someone familiar with LI can help me out here, since I live too far away and maybe have another SK in my nearer vicinity anyway. But how long do you drive from the area where the first four bodies were found to the area, where JT's body parts were found? As far as I understand the maps, someone would pass first the second drop site to come to the first one? Is that correct?
And on the matter of tombstones, people would be surprised how common it is to "re-use" grave markers that way or in other "building projects". But those tomb stones were in the water and to make them feel the area like graveyard for the killers (at least two working independent), he would have to know about them. If you look at the timeline, all four victims, we can pin to LISK (excluding here MV Torso), were killed in summer till early September. That indicates, he is not a local. And how would a non-local know about the tombstones.

Just because he killed in the summer does not have to mean he is not a local. I'm sure there could be a number of other reasons. Perhaps his wife/family was gone during the summer, giving him more freedom. Perhaps he had more than one residence and the LI summers suited his needs. It is likely the victims were killed somewhere else and kept for a period of time before being dumped where they were found. I can't shake the thought they were finally placed close to home where he could still control them. I also think there is more than one burial ground, still undiscovered.

 

[Peter Brendt]

The time frame is too long for the family on vacation idea. We talk mid June to mid September here. Victimology, the phone calls and the way of dumping the bodies indicate a deep resentment for the victims and another than just a pure visual sexual attraction motive and that isn't the kind, that lays low for nine months of the year. In so far I agree, there have to be more burial grounds, but I doubt, they are even at the East coast, or at least not all of them.
Keeping the bodies for a while before dumping them is an interesting idea, but how long do we talk here? The bodies were wrapped in burlap and just dumped without staging, that shows, they had no meaning to the killer after they were dead. And I fail to see any indicator that he kept them for longer than he needed to prepare the disposal. If at all, his nasty competitor from Mville is more of a keeper.
The control idea has some interesting aspects, but then, we talk here about re-visiting. Remember Bundy? He did a lot of revisiting, but the bodies were average 90 miles away from where he lived.

 

[Justiceforever]

Beats me. We use tombstones to pave the walkway up to our back porch. We usually try not to step on "mother" though, as she had a bad back in life and we don't want to add to her troubles on the heavenly plane.

Rotflmfao!!! TOO FUNNY! This made reading thru this thread worth it!