Guatemala - Nancy Ng, 29, from Monterey Park CA, missing during Yoga Retreat, 19 Oct 2023

[ChatteringBirds]

Did her kayak-partner see her jump into the water? I guess that's not known either way?

It would help her family to know what the kayak partner "officially" has to say, but nowadays I can also understand why someone wouldn't want their name known to the world as involved in a high-profile tragedy.

 

[slowpoke]

Did her kayak-partner see her jump into the water? I guess that's not known either way?

It would help her family to know what the kayak partner "officially" has to say, but nowadays I can also understand why someone wouldn't want their name known to the world as involved in a high-profile tragedy.

It is unclear to me what the kayak partner saw. I think that is why Nancy’s family wants to hear her first hand account, as it is unclear to them, as well. JMO

I think Nancy’s family is conscientiously annd intentionally not putting the names out there of the kayaker who was with Nancy, the retreat organizer, or the place of lodging. Or any of the other retreat participants, for that matter. JMO

 

[charminglane]

Nancy Ng update: Family of woman who went missing in Guatemala urges key witnesses to speak up

The family of a California woman who disappeared in Guatemala is urging the last two people to see her alive to speak to investigators.

abc7chicago.com

 

[10ofRods]

I do hope that person finds a way to reach out. Sadly, urging people to "present themselves to local law enforcement" is not a real incentive for that person go come forward. I'm not sure what they're thinking with that.

Can they not set up some kind of phone number and just talk to the person? They could, for example, give the phone number to the Yoga Retreat Owners know that the person lives, and then the Yoga Retreat could contact them? If someone tried to force me to go to LE in order to do the right, humane thing, I would balk for sure. I don't even know LEO's who would come forward (indeed, one reason non-LEO people are hired in cases like this, as intermediaries, is precisely for that reason).

Maybe that's what will happen - the person will contact the Yoga Retreat and try to do it that way.

I hope. IMO.

 

[slowpoke]

I do hope that person finds a way to reach out. Sadly, urging people to "present themselves to local law enforcement" is not a real incentive for that person go come forward. I'm not sure what they're thinking with that.

Can they not set up some kind of phone number and just talk to the person? They could, for example, give the phone number to the Yoga Retreat Owners know that the person lives, and then the Yoga Retreat could contact them? If someone tried to force me to go to LE in order to do the right, humane thing, I would balk for sure. I don't even know LEO's who would come forward (indeed, one reason non-LEO people are hired in cases like this, as intermediaries, is precisely for that reason).

Maybe that's what will happen - the person will contact the Yoga Retreat and try to do it that way.

I hope. IMO.

I don’t know if Nancy’s family have the kayak partner’s direct number, or how they have been trying to reach her, but their update says, they have done “multiple attempts to contact the woman ourselves”, but “our family has still not heard back from her.”

When you say Yoga Retreat Owner, do you mean the one who organized the retreat? If so, I get the feeling that person is also not talking to Nancy’s family— though I am not positive of that. <modsnip: not an approved source>

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

I don’t know if Nancy’s family have the kayak partner’s direct number, or how they have been trying to reach her, but their update says, they have done “multiple attempts to contact the woman ourselves”, but “our family has still not heard back from her.”

When you say Yoga Retreat Owner, do you mean the one who organized the retreat? If so, I get the feeling that person is also not talking to Nancy’s family— though I am not positive of that. At any rate, there is someone else in the group they are wanting to speak with besides the kayak partner we’ve been hearing about. At the Black Wolf Helicopters FB page, there is the “Official Urgent Witness Appeal”, and it refers to TWO people they would like to speak to.

JMO

Maybe the victim isn’t returning calls from anyone. She must be traumatized by the whole ordeal, not least because of the pressures afterwards. She’s probably besieged by media calls as well as the “multiple calls” from family, not to mention being blasted for not responding. I don’t see much compassion or understanding out there for this poor woman, and she is the victim in this case. I wouldn’t blame her at all for blocking unknown numbers.

The victim’s life may well be in ruins from what she saw, experienced in the moment before the event, and what she suffered when she realized the kayaker hadn’t re-surfaced. She might well have been in a frenzy trying to look for her; she might have become disoriented herself, and can’t reproduce exactly where she went in; and perhaps she is second-guessing her every decision.

What if the victim had a history of a family member drowning, or perhaps she herself had a near-miss? What if she was a trained first responder, and knew the short odds of surviving in that cold water for any length of time. Maybe she knew they were dehydrated and not thinking straight? Did they take water?

The victim also might not be in a place where she can answer any questions at all. Supposing, for instance, she had begged Nancy not to make the dive? Or perhaps there was an argument about it? I can’t imagine reporting that to the parents of a drowning. And if she only has negative things to say, it would be out of kindness she hasn’t wanted to return phone calls.

 

[Unalienable Rights]

Last person to see missing SoCal woman in Guatemala speaks out through attorney

The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

abc7.com

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (KABC) -- The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

"To say my client hasn't done all she can is not true," said attorney G. Christopher Gardner.

Gardner represents Christina Blazek, a San Bernardino County public defender, who attended the same retreat as Nancy Ng. She has been accused of maintaining her silence despite pleas from the missing woman's family to speak with her.

*********
Details at link.

 

[jash]

Last person to see missing SoCal woman in Guatemala speaks out through attorney

The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

abc7.com

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (KABC) -- The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

"To say my client hasn't done all she can is not true," said attorney G. Christopher Gardner.

Gardner represents Christina Blazek, a San Bernardino County public defender, who attended the same retreat as Nancy Ng. She has been accused of maintaining her silence despite pleas from the missing woman's family to speak with her.

*********
Details at link.

Thank you for finding and sharing!

At least the family now knows what the circumstances are. As some of you mentioned early on, jumping off a kayak can cause it to be pushed away.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Unfortunately it's tragic that this witness ended up being the last person to see her alive... to me it sounds like the authorities and the yoga retreat company didn't do their job. This person isn't about to reach out to the family personally since it's not like they were friends. She's also been through a traumatic experience and told her NOT to jump into the water, according to her attorney. I don't think she has any reason to lie, any motivation for murder is absurd, this absolutely sounds like a free spirit thinking to do something and unfortunately falling into misadventure.

The sister says:
"If it is like she says and it's an accident..... I don't understand how she could choose to leave my family in the dark for almost 4 weeks...."

My heart breaks for this family. I hope they find Nancy's body soon.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I believe the witness, CB. I do question why the statement she gave the authorities in Guatemala sounds incomplete.

I really feel for Nancy's family. Of course they are suffering greatly and felt absolutely desperate for answers and felt compelled to pursue them.

You can't blame CB for not responding to their emails and for instead obtaining her own attorney first, because this became an international story.

A whole month does seem like a long time.
Yet I think all parties involved should be given understanding, compassion, and grace.
JMO.

 

[RickshawFan]

Last person to see missing SoCal woman in Guatemala speaks out through attorney

The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

abc7.com

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (KABC) -- The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

"To say my client hasn't done all she can is not true," said attorney G. Christopher Gardner.

Gardner represents Christina Blazek, a San Bernardino County public defender, who attended the same retreat as Nancy Ng. She has been accused of maintaining her silence despite pleas from the missing woman's family to speak with her.

*********
Details at link.

Man, this happened almost in the way I suggested! She begged her not to, rough water, the drowned woman kicked away her kayak, the victim (public defender) got disoriented in the moment, she had no way to pinpoint the location, authorities were clear it was a drowning, assured her it was a regular thing for people to drown in the lake….

It’s too bad there were all those accusations out there, and they were taken public in the media. Most unfair.

Interesting that she had never met Ng until the moment they were in the kayak group

 

[10ofRods]

Man, this happened almost in the way I suggested! She begged her not to, rough water, the drowned woman kicked away her kayak, the victim (public defender) got disoriented in the moment, she had no way to pinpoint the location, authorities were clear it was a drowning, assured her it was a regular thing for people to drown in the lake….

It’s too bad there were all those accusations out there, and they were taken public in the media. Most unfair.
Interesting that she had never met Ng until the moment they were in the kayak group

Thank you so much for the summary! It is very much as you thought. The kicking away the kayak thing had been haunting me.

And good for that woman for reaching out through an attorney. I would do the same. It's very good that the family gets this closure, too.

I am not surprised that she had never met Ng until the moment they were in the kayak group. People assumed *so* much about who was in the group - or even about the yoga retreat (no guarantee they all got to know each other at all, IMO).

@ChatteringBirds is of course right. Hopefully all involved can find some peace. If there's any blame at all, to me, it would go to the kayak concessionaire, but do we really expect such places to run an hour long orientation, enforce PFD use (or better, life jackets) and teach them about the dangers of diving off a kayak (as shown in pictures from other concessions and in instagram photos?)

Well, I can easily blame Instagram, which I believe to be responsible for quite a few poor decisions made by people who want to impress on that platform, but that's my own personal bias.

IMO.

 

[RickshawFan]

The other item I like from the public defender…She took on the family’s criticism of Guatemalan “authorities”. They were evidently on scene soon, and taking witness testimony. They also had localized views on the lake (there are a lot of drownings, and it’s dangerous), as they should if they were relevant “authorities”. IMO US authorities would have done no differently: it always seems a shame to me that countries with few resources are accused of being incompetent and corrupt, when they’re just being real (not to say there isn’t incompetence and corruption in some police forces world wide).

 

[slowpoke]

Man, this happened almost in the way I suggested! She begged her not to, rough water, the drowned woman kicked away her kayak, the victim (public defender) got disoriented in the moment, she had no way to pinpoint the location, authorities were clear it was a drowning, assured her it was a regular thing for people to drown in the lake….

It’s too bad there were all those accusations out there, and they were taken public in the media. Most unfair.

Interesting that she had never met Ng until the moment they were in the kayak group

For accuracy’s sake, it doesn’t say she never met Nancy until the moment they were in the kayak group. It only says:

“ "My client did not go anywhere with Ng. They happened upon each other on the lake," said Gardner.“

To me, that means the the women didn’t make the decision to go in the direction they did on the lake together, but just happened to both go in that direction. Separately, but together.

That’s my interpretation, anyway.
MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

For accuracy’s sake, it doesn’t say she never met Nancy until the moment they were in the kayak group. It only says:

“ "My client did not go anywhere with Ng. They happened upon each other on the lake," said Gardner.“

To me, that means the the women didn’t make the decision to go in the direction they did on the lake together, but just happened to both go in that direction. Separately, but together.

That’s my interpretation, anyway.
MOO

My reading of "they happened upon each other" at the lake means "they met by chance" at the lake, as in the dictionary citation below. It means something like "they randomly arrived at the same location."

If you "happen upon" a rattlesnake in the trail, it doesn't mean you're encountering a rattlesnake you're previously acquainted with, or you'd say so, as in "the one with two rattles I saw over by the house the other day". Actually, IMO "happen upon" implies the opposite of prior acquaintance, otherwise you'd specify.

And this is an attorney speaking; they are particular about language.

See:

happen upon someone

Definition of happen upon someone in the Idioms Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

idioms.thefreedictionary.com

FWIW I don't think the yoga members knew each other hardly at all from what I gather. It doesn't sound like it was a club group or anything like that. Maybe they didn't even all fly in together.

 

[slowpoke]

I don’t think this article had any new information, but I thought this photo of Nancy was really sweet—her with her big smile while holding an adorable puppy.

(Link)

 

[10ofRods]

My reading of "they happened upon each other" at the lake means "they met by chance" at the lake, as in the dictionary citation below. It means something like "they randomly arrived at the same location."

If you "happen upon" a rattlesnake in the trail, it doesn't mean you're encountering a rattlesnake you're previously acquainted with, or you'd say so, as in "the one with two rattles I saw over by the house the other day". Actually, IMO "happen upon" implies the opposite of prior acquaintance, otherwise you'd specify.

And this is an attorney speaking; they are particular about language.

See:

happen upon someone

Definition of happen upon someone in the Idioms Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

idioms.thefreedictionary.com

FWIW I don't think the yoga members knew each other hardly at all from what I gather. It doesn't sound like it was a club group or anything like that. Maybe they didn't even all fly in together.

It sounds like people went to a concession (10 people) and rented kayaks. Some of the people were from the Yoga retreat (we don't know how many). This 10th person (the lawyer and a retreat attendee) didn't know NN all that well. I don't think we know how many of the 10 were also from the retreat.

Again, the Yoga Retreat runners have not been particularly forthcoming or transparent about how many of their guests were in kayaks that day.

And I agree that even if 8 of the remaining people were Yoga people, that they did not know each other well. I seriously doubt that they flew in together, I bet they flew in from various places and met only at the retreat (I guess sometimes people take a buddy to a retreat - but that usually results in that pair meeting almost no one else in any meaningful way - not that retreats provide much opportunity to actually get to know people, IME).

As to why it took a month for the witness to make a statement - I think she gets as much time as she needs to process her own trauma. The family's demand to "contact law enforcement" would have made almost anyone seek a lawyer, IMO. And that doesn't happen in a couple of hours - one asks for recommendations, interviews lawyers, establishes a fee for the service and gets multiple opinions (IMO).

Then the lawyer goes to work - and they do not just get up in the morning with a press statement already written - it's work to write one and is usually reviewed by paralegals and partners in cases like this. For all this witness knows, the family is getting ready to sue her, given the complaining and insistent tone (which is their grief speaking - but grieving people do sue, IME). Also, the family had just made a request about 8-10 days ago for the witnesses to come forward - by using the press, as I understand it, and then their request was repeated. The witness likely thought she'd told all she knew to *authorities.* (Which is what a good witness does - the good witness does not then contact other people by phone or in person unless their lawyer advises them to).

IOW, the family made it clear that they regarded this person as a witness - who should come forward to them, personally - and the hiring of the attorney to issue a general press release is the response. I think it's the right response, myself.

IMO

 

[insearchoflight]

“While out on lake, Blazek's attorney said the two women chatted and eventually, Ng said she wanted to go for a swim.

"She tried to tell her not to swim because it was rough out there and there was a good current," said Gardner.

According to Blazek, the warning went ignored. Ng went into the water and in the process pushed her kayak away, which Blazek then tried to retrieve.

"She kept one leg in her kayak and one leg in the other kayak and tried to get back to her... and got close to her. And then apparently, she lost the kayak again and she turned around to go back to get the kayak again, and when she turned back around, Ms. Ng was gone."

Last person to see missing SoCal woman in Guatemala speaks out through attorney

The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

abc7.com

That article answers pretty much all my questions!

 

[slowpoke]

It sounds like people went to a concession (10 people) and rented kayaks. Some of the people were from the Yoga retreat (we don't know how many). This 10th person (the lawyer and a retreat attendee) didn't know NN all that well. I don't think we know how many of the 10 were also from the retreat.

Again, the Yoga Retreat runners have not been particularly forthcoming or transparent about how many of their guests were in kayaks that day.

And I agree that even if 8 of the remaining people were Yoga people, that they did not know each other well. I seriously doubt that they flew in together, I bet they flew in from various places and met only at the retreat (I guess sometimes people take a buddy to a retreat - but that usually results in that pair meeting almost no one else in any meaningful way - not that retreats provide much opportunity to actually get to know people, IME).

As to why it took a month for the witness to make a statement - I think she gets as much time as she needs to process her own trauma. The family's demand to "contact law enforcement" would have made almost anyone seek a lawyer, IMO. And that doesn't happen in a couple of hours - one asks for recommendations, interviews lawyers, establishes a fee for the service and gets multiple opinions (IMO).

Then the lawyer goes to work - and they do not just get up in the morning with a press statement already written - it's work to write one and is usually reviewed by paralegals and partners in cases like this. For all this witness knows, the family is getting ready to sue her, given the complaining and insistent tone (which is their grief speaking - but grieving people do sue, IME). Also, the family had just made a request about 8-10 days ago for the witnesses to come forward - by using the press, as I understand it, and then their request was repeated. The witness likely thought she'd told all she knew to *authorities.* (Which is what a good witness does - the good witness does not then contact other people by phone or in person unless their lawyer advises them to).

IOW, the family made it clear that they regarded this person as a witness - who should come forward to them, personally - and the hiring of the attorney to issue a general press release is the response. I think it's the right response, myself.

IMO

I was only trying to accurately portray (in my interpretation) the difference in what was stated in msm vs the statement made in a prior post that the kayaker had never met Ng until the moment they were in the kayak group, which to me implied the two were not from the same retreat group.

It is my opinion that they were from the same retreat group. Of course, I don’t know for certain, just based on statements such as this:
“Ng's family said they attempted to reach [name withheld] after the incident - first by giving their number to the yoga instructor in charge of the group, then through other contacts. They say they sent two separate emails dated Oct. 25 and Oct. 31. They say [name withheld] didn't respond to any of their pleas for information.” Link

In the end, IMO, how well acquainted the two women were would end up not having much relevance to what happened in the moment while out there on the water. There was nothing more the witness could have done once Nancy went under and didn’t resurface. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

“While out on lake, Blazek's attorney said the two women chatted and eventually, Ng said she wanted to go for a swim.

"She tried to tell her not to swim because it was rough out there and there was a good current," said Gardner.

According to Blazek, the warning went ignored. Ng went into the water and in the process pushed her kayak away, which Blazek then tried to retrieve.

"She kept one leg in her kayak and one leg in the other kayak and tried to get back to her... and got close to her. And then apparently, she lost the kayak again and she turned around to go back to get the kayak again, and when she turned back around, Ms. Ng was gone."

Last person to see missing SoCal woman in Guatemala speaks out through attorney

The last person to see a missing Monterey Park woman while at a yoga retreat in Guatemala is speaking publicly for the first time through her attorney.

abc7.com

That article answers pretty much all my questions!

That poor woman. What a nightmare. She knew she needed both kayaks for an effective rescue, and I am impressed with her paddling skills that she was able to do what she did. It would be so hard to control both kayaks while also trying to move them toward a person struggling in the water. Esp. with wind, current and chop.

This sounds like it happened very quickly (in 70F water). I would love to hear @RickshawFan 's views on this situation. I don't think it sounds like a long enough time for hypothermia - but I have heard many stories of people drowning when they panicked after realizing "there's no bottom" to push off of. Was it too choppy to try the dead man's float? Did NN know anything about lake water safety/self-rescue techniques? I didn't learn those things until I was older than she was. Well, I knew ABOUT the dead man's float, but knew nothing about when to use it. The other techniques they taught us to avoid drowning involved swimming pools or lakes with gravel bottoms - would not work in our local, silty lakes or in very deep lakes.

I do think the concessions should be proactive and make everyone click on a QR code and watch a 3 minute video before obtaining their equipment (and PFD's should be mandatory). Or something like that.

IMO