Guilty of first degree murder/verdict watch #2

[NCEast]

Looks like he is, glee:

The Honorable Orlando F. Hudson, Jr. is the Senior Resident Superior Court Judge. Judge Hudson received his Doctor of Juris Prudence from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In 1989 he became a Superior Court Judge serving until 1995 when he became the 14th Judicial District's senior resident judge. Prior to serving on the Superior Court bench, Judge Hudson served as a District Court Judge for five years, an Assistant District Attorney in Durham, an Assistant Public Defender in Fayetteville, and practiced law for two years with a private firm.

http://www.nccourts.org/County/Durham/Staff/Superior.asp

I really like this judge. He's the one who presided over the M. Peterson trial in Durham. Very fair and very good.

 

[otto]

I heard today about blue sky and unions ... in connection with a discussion about the higher number of educated people per capita in North Caolina. One would expect that a higher number of educated population would result in a demand for maximum human rights, but perhaps that depends on the state. Was that politician that had a girlfriend whose wife died of cancer from NC? I guess he wasn`t thinking about the alienation of affection laws.

Why is it that NC has such a high rate of spousal homicides? The trials seem to be back to back. That doesn`t happen where I`m from, even though it is a large city.

 

[otto]

I really like this judge. He's the one who presided over the M. Peterson trial in Durham. Very fair and very good.

Presumably he`ll preside over the next case with Michael Peterson again and he will rule in favor of the prosecution if it tips the scale ... and blood spatter evidence or owls will be omitted?

 

[gracielee]

Same here, glee -- I remember burning the bottom of my feet -- big blisters -- because I, and other NCSU students, along with Duke and Carolina students met on the NCSU brickyard and marched down Hillsboro Street to the State Capitol to protest the draft and the war. Our brothers and friends were sent over there before they were old enuff to vote, and they were dying over there. I was barefoot and the street was hot.

Years later I went to the Vietnam memorial in DC and traced the names of 4 friends who came home in boxes from Vietnam. That war changed so many people in so many ways.

Or to put it in words by Simon & Garfunkel:

"Time it was, and what a time it was, it was
A time of innocence, a time of confidences
Long ago, it must be, I have a photograph
Preserve your memories; They're all that's left you"


(quoted from memory)

​

​

I do remember the Manson murders back then, and then the MacDonald family murders occurred not long after and about 40 miles from my hometown -- and I was sucked into "true crime," and have been ever since.

Simon & Garfunkle, some of my favorites. Also quoted from memory,

In the clearing stands a boxer, a fighter by his trade, and he carries the reminders, of every glove that laid him down or cut him till he cried out in his anger and his shame, I am leaving I am leaving, but the fighter still remains, yes he still remains.

For me, my first true crime book was in high school. The Lindbergh Kidnapping. Truely fascinated me. And then The Moors Murders, Myra Hindley & Ian Brady. And I read the My Lai Massacre when it first came out back in the early 1970's. And the fall of Siagon. It was a tumultuous time. I still have and wear my POW bracelet.

 

[gracielee]

I still find it highly irregular that a photo of a person and a car can be shown to a witness with serious memory issues and her testimony can be introduced at trial, or that the prosecution introduces rumor testimony rather than that of the attending investigator. There's nothing wrong with having procedural safeguards in a criminal investigation ... seems like an important right. Giving someone the right to remain silent but then, when they remain silent, it is held against them in court, is a bit scary. Having one judge oversee all of the accusations against an accised; familial, civil and criminal, leaves some objectivity to be desired ... but ... each to their own, I suppose.

As for plea deals, I'm sure they are regularly practiced in the United States.

ETA: my friend, the senior criminal prosecutor, said several times that he wished he had practiced in NC because his job would have been so much easier. Not that the criminals weren't still prosecuted, just that it would have been easier with a NC system.

Gracie's *memory* seemed to be as good or better then many here who continually get the details confused. I'm not speaking of you otto. Simply stating that gracie's *memory* of the event did not change over the years. Her story remained the same. Man came into the store, got into her face, & cussed her out and threw a twenty at her because she wouldn't turn on the pumps. Pump & runs came out of her minimum wage pay. When you see an angry face, swearing at you, you don't forget it, not 72 hours later. IMO Especially a face like JLY.

 

[otto]

Did Jason have competent council?

Why didn`t they properly challenged motions that clearly impugned him.

 

[otto]

Gracie's *memory* seemed to be as good or better then many here who continually get the details confused. I'm not speaking of you otto. Simply stating that gracie's *memory* of the event did not change over the years. Her story remained the same. Man came into the store, got into her face, & cussed her out and threw a twenty at her because she wouldn't turn on the pumps. Pump & runs came out of her minimum wage pay. When you see an angry face, swearing at you, you don't forget it, not 72 hours later. IMO Especially a face like JLY.

BBM ... confused

It`s not about memory, it relates to procedural safeguards that should be implemented to prevent a 45 second experience from turning into a witness identification ... 15 minutes of fame.

The problem is that the witness was given tainted information for making the identification ... yet North Carolina law does not seem to protect people from the very dangerous and questionable practice of tainted misidentification. A 6 person photo lineup by an independent investigator should be used to ensure procedural safeguards. My friend, the criminal prosecutor, recommended that I contact the defense, just like other forum commenters have contacted the prosecution ... mention the gaping errors I see in the case.

He said that, as a prosecutor, he would welcome any feedback from the community ... even from bored house wifes on a criminal junkies forum ... he said that he would present their comments in closing arguments if it was good.

 

[janesdean]

snipped by me~

It`s understandable that he would be a pariah in his home town. In terms of chiseling away his reputation, custody came first, backing him into a corner - he had to talk about the murder or lose custody of his child Then the civil suit, again, there he had to answer questions about the murder or forfeit. The insurance policy was the same ... he could answer questions related to the murder or forfeit. He forfeited. Then the 15 million fine and slayer label ... also ... he was given the choice to answer questions about the murder or forfeit, then the harassment at work by what his lawyers called internet vigilantes, then the charges, the hung jury, bail, then the conviction and life in a cage.

It's nice to see you put it in black and white, exactly why Jason Young is in a cell for the rest of his life.

 

[NCEast]

Simon & Garfunkle, some of my favorites. Also quoted from memory,

In the clearing stands a boxer, a fighter by his trade, and he carries the reminders, of every glove that laid him down or cut him till he cried out in his anger and his shame, I am leaving I am leaving, but the fighter still remains, yes he still remains.

For me, my first true crime book was in high school. The Lindbergh Kidnapping. Truely fascinated me. And then The Moors Murders, Myra Hindley & Ian Brady. And I read the My Lai Massacre when it first came out back in the early 1970's. And the fall of Siagon. It was a tumultuous time. I still have and wear my POW bracelet.

S&G's The Boxer is my all time fav of theirs. Song has some of me in it, especially the part you quoted.

I still have my POW bracelet too, he was from here. I have never given up hope that someday his body will be returned. When I was doing my tv show I did a 2 hour special on the 40th anniversary of his missing in action and subsequent declaration of POW. Interviewed his sister, parents are now deceased. It was a very bittersweet show. Horrible time in this country's history and a difficult time to grow up in. And we grew up fast didn't we?

 

[gracielee]

S&G's The Boxer is my all time fav of theirs. Song has some of me in it, especially the part you quoted.

I still have my POW bracelet too, he was from here. I have never given up hope that someday his body will be returned. When I was doing my tv show I did a 2 hour special on the 40th anniversary of his missing in action and subsequent declaration of POW. Interviewed his sister, parents are now deceased. It was a very bittersweet show. Horrible time in this country's history and a difficult time to grow up in. And we grew up fast didn't we?

Yes, we did. That part of The Boxer always felt like *me* too, NCE. Sometimes I'd sing it through such pain & tears. How kind of you to honor him all those years later. It certainly was a rough time to grow up, but I think it made so many of us stronger and more cognizant of the world around us. We were thrown into adulthood, sink or swim.

 

[NCEast]

Yes, we did. That part of The Boxer always felt like *me* too, NCE. Sometimes I'd sing it through such pain & tears. How kind of you to honor him all those years later. It certainly was a rough time to grow up, but I think it made so many of us stronger and more cognizant of the world around us. We were thrown into adulthood, sink or swim.

Absolutely Glee. And so many of those of the JY and BC generation take the easy way out because they have had it so easy all the way around. Murder is easier than divorce, children, alimony, child support, etc.

I can't think of too many of us who married young stayed in our original marriages (big pat on the back for you and Mr. GracieLee!) but it wasn't because of irresponsibility. It was probably too much responsibility at too young an age or too much grown up stuff hitting us in the face each day--draft notices, civil rights protests, war protests, assassinations--Kennedy, Kennedy, ML King, others....., students being gunned down on campuses, the sexual revolution--make love, not war. Gosh, I'm glad I'm old cause I don't think I could live though it again

And it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to spell assassinations so I think it's time to head to bed. Will talk tomorrow!!

 

[gracielee]

Absolutely Glee. And so many of those of the JY and BC generation take the easy way out because they have had it so easy all the way around. Murder is easier than divorce, children, alimony, child support, etc.

I can't think of too many of us who married young stayed in our original marriages (big pat on the back for you and Mr. GracieLee!) but it wasn't because of irresponsibility. It was probably too much responsibility at too young an age or too much grown up stuff hitting us in the face each day--draft notices, civil rights protests, war protests, assassinations--Kennedy, Kennedy, ML King, others....., students being gunned down on campuses, the sexual revolution--make love, not war. Gosh, I'm glad I'm old cause I don't think I could live though it again

And it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to spell assassinations so I think it's time to head to bed. Will talk tomorrow!!

I too am tired, but a dear friend of one of my daughters, and mine too, is fighting for her life tonight, at Duke. And so my daughter and I are waiting.... I know she's up too, right next door to me, holding Rita in our hearts tonight. We know the odds are very bad, but we hope.

 

[Just the Fax]

Wonder if Jay will talk to his mother about his sex life now?
Maybe castration is an elective procedure for lifers?

 

[gracielee]

I too am tired, but a dear friend of one of my daughters, and mine too, is fighting for her life tonight, at Duke. And so my daughter and I are waiting.... I know she's up too, right next door to me, holding Rita in our hearts tonight. We know the odds are very bad, but we hope.

OT/ Rita made the life-flight from Wake Med to Duke last night where a Neurosurgeon put a shunt or stint in last night to drain the blood around Rita's brain. Did surgery this morning. Next 24 to 48 hours critical, 'on a scale of 5 to 15, she's a 10.' Don't know what that means, why the odd numbers of the *scale*, not one to ten? Please keep Rita in your thoughts today. She is a wonderful woman, mid fifties, and a dear dear friend. When our youngest daughter graduated from N.C. State and began working, Rita became daughters 'work mom'. They bonded almost immediately, their relationship that of a mother & daughter. We love you, Rita, hang in there and fight.

 

[SteelerGirl43]

"How far should these general or specific cautions go? In R. v. Sokolov [case that resulted in êye witness misidentification changes to ciminal law],142 Mr. Justice Melvyn Green of the Ontario Court of Justice, noting “eyewitness misidentification is probably the greatest single cause of factually wrongful convictions,” stated:

"Eyewitness misidentification has long been regarded as the leading, if not overwhelming, cause of a wrongful conviction.127 In R. v. Hanemaayer, Mr. Justice Marc Rosenberg, speaking on behalf of the unanimous Ontario Court of Appeal, commented on “how flawed identification procedures can contribute to miscarriages of justice and the importance of taking great care in conducting those procedures.”128

...

Its inherent frailties demand that special care must be taken in the assessment of such evidence. Such care, however, does not translate into a rule of exclusion or complete probative negation. It is most certainly not the rule that eyewitness identification evidence — even standing alone — can never ground a proper conviction. The rule, rather, is that the exercise of adjudication in this type of case must be especially cautious.143"

"When meeting with witnesses in serious cases, it is wise, if it is feasible and practical, to have a third party present to ensure there is no later disagreement about what took place at the meeting."

http://www.ppsc-sppc.gc.ca/eng/pub/ptj-spj/ch5.html

Rights that I took for granted, but which were not in place in a NC court ... that confused me during trial.

I suppose I`m still thinking it through ... from beginning to end. Trials that result in living in a cage for life shouldn`t have any monkey business, in my opinion.

BBM
Yep!!! I was looking over @ Innocent Project & MOST have been jailed because of Eyewitness Misidentification... Shocking!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but I do not believe Gracies story. I think she saw someone but not Jason....

 

[Lucky89]

Wonder if Jay will talk to his mother about his sex life now?
Maybe castration is an elective procedure for lifers?

One thing for sure is he want piss on everyones rug and then run out of the shower buttnaked. His new friends might just like it!! :floorlaugh:

 

[Talina]

BBM
Yep!!! I was looking over @ Innocent Project & MOST have been jailed because of Eyewitness Misidentification... Shocking!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but I do not believe Gracies story. I think she saw someone but not Jason....

I haven't heard any jurors say that Gracie's testimony played any crucial role in their decision.

In fact, the ones I've heard speak specifically about Gracie's testimony, it was said that some believed her, some didn't but that it really didn't matter because it was not a big part of the deliberations and played no major role in the verdict.

So for me, this issue of witness testimony one way or the other in this trial is moot as far as the jury verdict was concerned. Sounds to me like they discounted all the eyewitness testimony, both the PT and the DT witnesses.

IMO

 

[SteelerGirl43]

I haven't heard any jurors say that Gracie's testimony played any crucial role in their decision.

In fact, the ones I've heard speak specifically about Gracie's testimony, it was said that some believed her, some didn't but that it really didn't matter because it was not a big part of the deliberations and played no major role in the verdict.

So for me, this issue of witness testimony one way or the other in this trial is moot as far as the jury verdict was concerned. Sounds to me like they discounted all the eyewitness testimony, both the PT and the DT witnesses.

IMO

BBM

Never said they did or that it did.... Just stating my opinion....

 

[Talina]

BBM

Never said they did or that it did.... Just stating my opinion....

Perhaps I misunderstood your post.
A comment is made about the Innocence Project, eyewitness testimony being responsible for a lot of people being wrongfully convicted which is then followed by a comment that the person believes Gracie saw someone just not Jason.
That sounded to me like there was a connection being made there and not just a comment unrelated to the sentence directly preceding it.

IMO

 

[Ada]

I haven't heard any jurors say that Gracie's testimony played any crucial role in their decision.

In fact, the ones I've heard speak specifically about Gracie's testimony, it was said that some believed her, some didn't but that it really didn't matter because it was not a big part of the deliberations and played no major role in the verdict.

So for me, this issue of witness testimony one way or the other in this trial is moot as far as the jury verdict was concerned. Sounds to me like they discounted all the eyewitness testimony, both the PT and the DT witnesses.

IMO

My alt friend said that they (the alt) did not put much weight on Gracie's testimony because she was obviously impaired. Without Gracie's testimony, this alt came to believe that JY was guilty.