Gun Control Debate #1

[human]

And a pile of heroin or meth is not problem either. Just some chemicals. No big del.

 

[human]

And then you look at what happens to the **unarmed** citizens of Europe when that crazy mustache guy with the nutty salute came along & wanted to take over the world. And there have been other dictators in Italy and Russia along the way.

But I’m sure many countries have been appreciative of American troops coming in to help rid them of disastrous effects from these monsters for the sake of democracy and freedom. Many of our young men who grew up hunting had to take up arms & were drafted into the military within the past 5 decades ago to help defend others in foreign lands. A lot has happened since the King mattered.

The people went willingly for th mustache man. That is the people who were not the vilified.

Now the govt has untold weapons that we cannot even fathom. An assault rifle or any weapon someone has to fight the govt? And who decides what govt is corrupt?

 

[rsd1200]

Finally, metal detectors can prevent students from sneakingguns or knives into school. They will not, however, preventschool shootings. There was a metal detector and securityguards at Red Lake. Jeffrey Weise shot one of the guards andwalked into the building. The presence of a metal detectormeant nothing. If you expect to die in the attack, it does notmatter if you set off an alarm at the metal detector. It does notmatter if people see you with a gun, because you are there tokill and to die.So what can be done? The best defense is early detection.By the time shooters are approaching the school with a gun, itis too late. Even if they can be kept from entering the building,they still can go on a rampage. They can shoot people in themorning as they arrive at school, or wait until school lets out.If a door is locked, they may be able to shoot their way through.Shooters have to be stopped before they can get to the schoolwith weapons. This means a different style of prevention thanphysical security.

Again, I really like this little book, that OP so kindly linked. https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/ten_lessons_1.2.pdf

I also, again, really like the JustinKase. http://www.kare11.com/article/news/students-invention-protects-his-school/89-520840852

 

[jillycat]

As posted above, the school shooters get their weapons not on the street but either purchase them legally themselves or take their parents' legally-purchased guns. They did follow the law in the way they obtained their weapons...that they then used to kill.

An article posted above was by a man who said he would've been a school shooter himself, but he didn't have guns.

School shooters aren't buying guns illegally. In terms of that part of their crime, they are following the current laws.

If the laws were different, perhaps school shooters wouldn't become school shooters.

jmo

Yes, exactly, this is why doing background checks harder will not stop shootings. These people are passing background checks.

However, I believe that bumping into someone else's boundary, in this case another law, changes nothing about the nature of a predator who doesn't care about boundaries between him or her and others in the first place. So if school shooter type hunters of innocent people can't be shooters, they may/will simply decide to be school bombers, or whatever achieves their goal of ending other people's lives.

I'm not saying we don't need to review current laws and regulations, or that there aren't additional regulations that may be useful. But I think trying make enough laws to stop violent people from being violent is distracting from the fact that soft targets are preferred targets for a reason, and there a lot of ways to kill in those environments.

 

[human]

Historically, the 2nd amendment was written so that US citizens could keep the King of England from their door. Still a massive problem I believe :giggle:

Actually, it was written to protect slavery. I can provide a link if anyone is interested.

 

[human]

BBM
We've discussed this between ourselves and a friend who owns one. Do we NEED them. Probably not. Would I give mine up if I thought it would save a life? Yes. Are we the folks to be afraid of? No.

There are millions out there now. I'd not curl into a fetal position of they banned them, but, they're lightweight and very little kick which makes them nice for me, but, I normally pack my little .38 special. Fits in my front pocket and easily covered w/my t-shirt. Bears are my biggest worry here, and a loud noise along with my dogs, should be adequate. I hope.

It's the ability to be able to not have to reload that makes semis more appealing to mass shooters. So do we get rid of semi handguns too? Pop out a spent mag and reload. They even reconfigure magazines or get illegal sized ones, or just carry a bunch. It's nothing to snap one out and another in.

Then though, you've got the bomb makers, (Eric and Dylan for example), or, a trunk of, and I won't even type it, but 30# of the "T" stuff, in a vehicle, and a single shot... That would be just horrific too, and could be done from yards and yards away.

I really like the Peter Langman lessons that OP provided up thread.

Yes,Get rid of anything that is semiautomatic. Unless someone can prove a need for it. There is no need for a handgun. Unless you can prove a need for it.

If people like to target shoot or skeet,they can keep it at the club.

I think in MN it is illegal to hunt iwth an assault rifle. And no, I am not getting into a pointless argument of what one is. It is comical bs if it wasn't such a tragic subject

 

[human]

Yes, exactly, this is why doing background checks harder will not stop shootings. These people are passing background checks.

However, I believe that bumping into someone else's boundary, in this case another law, changes nothing about the nature of a predator who doesn't care about boundaries between him or her and others in the first place. So if school shooter type hunters of innocent people can't be shooters, they may/will simply decide to be school bombers, or whatever achieves their goal of ending other people's lives.

I'm not saying we don't need to review current laws and regulations, or that there aren't additional regulations that may be useful. But I think trying make enough laws to stop violent people from being violent is distracting from the fact that soft targets are preferred targets for a reason, and there a lot of ways to kill in those environments.

What is a soft target? A mall where there are people with CC? Or an army base? A school with armed guards such as Columbine and Parkland?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

The people went willingly for th mustache man. That is the people who were not the vilified.

Now the govt has untold weapons that we cannot even fathom. An assault rifle or any weapon someone has to fight the govt? And who decides what govt is corrupt?

The Jews went willingly? France wanted his invasion? I know you didn’t mean that, human......I know you’re intelligent.

About govt’s having advanced and annhilating weaponry, yes. But that is the reason why many gun owners defend their 2nd amendment rights. To some, they bear arms to defend against tyrannical govts. Just sayin’.....

 

[human]

I respectfully disagree. I use the same gun year after year. My expenses are ammunition, freezer bags and freezer paper. I provided for my family of 4 for a year with 2 (357) shells. I processed burger, steaks, roasts, stew meat and tenderloins. No way I could buy 5 lb. of hamburger for what it costs to get 2 deer. I haven't hunted the last 2 years at our new place but I will again so we can eat better again.

So why would anyone need an assault rifle? No CWD where you live?

 

[human]

The Jews went willingly? France wanted his invasion? I know you didn’t mean that, human......I know you’re intelligent.

About govt’s having advanced and annhilating weaponry, yes. But that is the reason why many gun owners defend their 2nd amendment rights. To some, they bear arms to defend against tyrannical govts. Just sayin’.....

I said that the people who loved what the fuhrer was saying went with him willingly. They lioved hating the scapegoats,

Some people see the present govt of the US as horrifying and others are willing believers of it

There is no weapon that can fight against what the US govt has,

 

[Tillicum]

So why would anyone need an assault rifle? No CWD where you live?

One case in the state and it was a captive deer.

 

[bluedivergirl]

And a pile of heroin or meth is not problem either. Just some chemicals. No big del.

??? Those street drugs are illegal to all citizens. I don't get it.

 

[bluedivergirl]

One case in the state and it was a captive deer.

Makes sense. The more closely held the deer are, the greater risk for Chronic Wasting Disease.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes,Get rid of anything that is semiautomatic. Unless someone can prove a need for it. There is no need for a handgun. Unless you can prove a need for it.

If people like to target shoot or skeet,they can keep it at the club.

I think in MN it is illegal to hunt iwth an assault rifle. And no, I am not getting into a pointless argument of what one is. It is comical bs if it wasn't such a tragic subject

Uhm, I'm not the person one needs to worry about. I won't be selling my firearms on the street either. I don't have a local skeet shooting range here. We have a large area and set up our own target shoots as do many folks around here. I don't live in a city.

If I start showing signs of mental deterioration, my family should remove my firearms availability to me. Same as I think that folks should tell on their parents when they can no longer safely drive a vehicle. (I know it's not like a firearm, it's just a comparison). However, I've read that some countries have started putting up concrete barriers to stop suicide attacks via motor vehicle.

 

[jillycat]

What is a soft target? A mall where there are people with CC? Or an army base? A school with armed guards such as Columbine and Parkland?

They're defenseless unprotected environments.

The guard at Columbine wasn't at the school when the shooting began. He was called and then encountered one of the shooters and they exchanged fire. He and the back-up he called for had another engagement with both shooters.

The Parkland guard never encountered the shooter.

An armed guard doesn't equal a hard target. If a shooter gets in the building and opens fire before a guard knows he's in the building, or in the case of Parkland, for whatever reason the guard never sees/encounters the shooter, the shooting is already in progress.

Schools need more of a line of defense than a single guard.

 

[rsd1200]

The Jews went willingly? France wanted his invasion? I know you didn’t mean that, human......I know you’re intelligent.

About govt’s having advanced and annhilating weaponry, yes. But that is the reason why many gun owners defend their 2nd amendment rights. To some, they bear arms to defend against tyrannical govts. Just sayin’.....

I kinda want mine in the event of a govt. melt down. I'm rural, and can hunt if I have to, and raise my own food, and I play nice with my neighbors.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

They're defenseless unprotected environments.

The guard at Columbine wasn't at the school when the shooting began. He was called and then encountered one of the shooters and they exchanged fire. He and the back-up he called for had another engagement with both shooters.

The Parkland guard never encountered the shooter.

An armed guard doesn't equal a hard target. If a shooter gets in the building and opens fire before a guard knows he's in the building, or in the case of Parkland, for whatever reason the guard never sees/encounters the shooter, the shooting is already in progress.

Schools need more of a line of defense than a single guard.

Yes, keep these semiautomatic rifles away from people under 21. Waiting periods. Better background checks. Closing loopholes.

Prevention, yes!

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I said that the people who loved what the fuhrer was saying went with him willingly. They lioved hating the scapegoats,

Some people see the present govt of the US as horrifying and others are willing believers of it

There is no weapon that can fight against what the US govt has,

Lots of points being made here. First, the Fuhrer led many to their deaths but of course he had some supporters; it goes without saying.

Of course some see the US govt as really good and some really bad. And I concur that the weaponry at the US govt disposal is state of the art and ridiculously exorbitant. However, many people can’t stand the thought of being a victim in any way (I fall into this category) and I won’t delude myself that my little slingshot will protect me in suburbia when MS-13 comes out of their neighboring inner city to do their nefarious acts in my sleepy neighborhood. I don’t kid myself that a little pepper spray or a flashlight will protect me. Please don’t say that gangs only attack other gangs or criminals only attack other criminals.

Still, others believe a well armed citizenry keeps itself safe **en masse** because it would be very difficult for a rogue govt to attack that broad of a scope of its citizens. In today’s world, there are situations of citizen revolt occurring. It is still a threat and so if you can understand just a tad of what I am saying then you can see there’s no easy answer.

If anyone here can’t see any merit/validity to even a shred of what I’m mentioning, then my words were wasted and certainly anyone here may feel free to continue to say “ ban all guns.”

But I can assure you it won’t happen.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Live updates from CNN town hall.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/02/21/us/florida-school-shooting-town-hall-latest/index.html

 

[MaryG12]

Florida lawmakers refuse to debate assault rifles -- but say *advertiser censored* is dangerous


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/heal...ensored*-dangerous-but-not-weapons/index.html

What they will do is carry on about bump stocks which were used once out of 472 mass shootings in history.

I remember when DH and I first drove down to FL - we're on I-75 going through Clearwater - should have been called the "red light district" LOL.

Outside of that, every single time I hear FL and *advertiser censored* combined together I think of the "Porky's" movies.