General Gun Violence/Gun Control

[PrairieWind]

My point continues to be that the mentally unstable should not have access to weapons.

JMO

And I agree with that statement, and most others do as well. Even the NRA has backed such efforts. Lets just figure out a way to do this, that isn't horribly abused, that allows for due process.

 

[MyBelle]

Good questions.
I've watched a lot of police body cam videos where people commit suicide by cop. They are often armed with a knife and charge at the police forcing them to shoot.

Should we disarm police to prevent these suicides and lower "gun deaths" ?

JMO.

BBM. I suggest we disarm the mentally unstable who want to commit suicide rather than police officers.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

And I agree with that statement, and most others do as well. Even the NRA has backed such efforts. Lets just figure out a way to do this, that isn't horribly abused, that allows for due process.

Yes.

I would hate to see any misuse by people using police to harass gun owners by falsely claiming they have a mental health problem. JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes.

I would hate to see any misuse by people using police to harass gun owners by falsely claiming they have a mental health problem. JMO.

Why on earth would a family member falsely claim a loved one has a mental health problem?

Under red flag laws, the court order to confiscate weapons is TEMPORARY and they have proved to be very effective in preventing suicide.

JMO

Mara Elliott: Here are some real-life stories of how red-flag laws work

In 2023, so far, there were two mass shootings a day in America. The gun violence epidemic in the U.S. is at proportions not experienced by any other country. However,

www.stltoday.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Why on earth would a family member falsely claim a loved one has a mental health problem?

Under red flag laws, the court order to confiscate weapons is TEMPORARY and they have proved to be very effective in preventing suicide.

JMO

Mara Elliott: Here are some real-life stories of how red-flag laws work

In 2023, so far, there were two mass shootings a day in America. The gun violence epidemic in the U.S. is at proportions not experienced by any other country. However,

www.stltoday.com

Domestic dispute. JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Domestic dispute. JMO.

Domestic violence is epidemic and involves a tad more than just a "domestic dispute."

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Domestic violence is epidemic and involves a tad more than just a "domestic dispute."

JMO

You do understand my point now right?

 

[PrairieWind]

Why on earth would a family member falsely claim a loved one has a mental health problem?

Under red flag laws, the court order to confiscate weapons is TEMPORARY and they have proved to be very effective in preventing suicide.

JMO

Mara Elliott: Here are some real-life stories of how red-flag laws work

In 2023, so far, there were two mass shootings a day in America. The gun violence epidemic in the U.S. is at proportions not experienced by any other country. However,

www.stltoday.com

You are maybe not familiar with domestic law practices. In divorces and child custody disputes, allegations of abuse or violence or drug/alcohol abuse, mental illness are routinely weaponized and used with very little to no evidence supporting them. It can take months and years to undo those allegations and sometimes they are never really ever put to rest. I am ok with the concept of red flag or yellow flag laws. But, if in a red flag situation a person is found to have made an allegation not in good faith, or a professional issues an opinion without reasonable investigation, there need to be serious consequences, criminal consequences.

 

[10ofRods]

You are maybe not familiar with domestic law practices. In divorces and child custody disputes, allegations of abuse or violence or drug/alcohol abuse, mental illness are routinely weaponized and used with very little to no evidence supporting them. It can take months and years to undo those allegations and sometimes they are never really ever put to rest. I am ok with the concept of red flag or yellow flag laws. But, if in a red flag situation a person is found to have made an allegation not in good faith, or a professional issues an opinion without reasonable investigation, there need to be serious consequences, criminal consequences.

In every case I'm familiar with, where families were able to get a conservatorship, the mentally ill person had been involuntarily hospitalized, and the strongest cases were the ones where (before hospitalization) the person was violent or had done things like run off into the hills or woods.

So, there was a psychiatrist involved. In some cases, the family had hired a psychiatrist with the view of involuntary commitment, which is the way it should be. Many psychiatrists don't want to get involved, but those who treat seriously mentally ill people usually cooperate to get the person into care (and away from guns).

Still, many people who have been inpatients already have guns and unless there's a fairly large concerted effort by family and treating psychiatrist, they get to keep them.

IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

You are maybe not familiar with domestic law practices. In divorces and child custody disputes, allegations of abuse or violence or drug/alcohol abuse, mental illness are routinely weaponized and used with very little to no evidence supporting them. It can take months and years to undo those allegations and sometimes they are never really ever put to rest. I am ok with the concept of red flag or yellow flag laws. But, if in a red flag situation a person is found to have made an allegation not in good faith, or a professional issues an opinion without reasonable investigation, there need to be serious consequences, criminal consequences.

I'm very familiar with domestic law practices and the weaponization of the court process by attorneys. Their goal is $$$ and not the safety and welfare of victims of abuse.

More states need to enact laws similar to the Jennifer Law in CT.

Jennifer’s Law: What It Is, What's Changed & How It Impacts Family Law

Before 2021, victims were required to demonstrate that they were subject to continuous threats of physical injury or stalking. Learn about Jennifer's Law here.

ctattorneybrownstein.com

Red flag laws do work and lives are saved which is why more states are enacting them.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

In every case I'm familiar with, where families were able to get a conservatorship, the mentally ill person had been involuntarily hospitalized, and the strongest cases were the ones where (before hospitalization) the person was violent or had done things like run off into the hills or woods.

So, there was a psychiatrist involved. In some cases, the family had hired a psychiatrist with the view of involuntary commitment, which is the way it should be. Many psychiatrists don't want to get involved, but those who treat seriously mentally ill people usually cooperate to get the person into care (and away from guns).

Still, many people who have been inpatients already have guns and unless there's a fairly large concerted effort by family and treating psychiatrist, they get to keep them.

IMO.

Why would someone running off into the woods be grounds for a conservatorship?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm very familiar with domestic law practices and the weaponization of the court process by attorneys. Their goal is $$$ and not the safety and welfare of victims of abuse.

More states need to enact laws similar to the Jennifer Law in CT.

Jennifer’s Law: What It Is, What's Changed & How It Impacts Family Law

Before 2021, victims were required to demonstrate that they were subject to continuous threats of physical injury or stalking. Learn about Jennifer's Law here.

ctattorneybrownstein.com

Red flag laws do work and lives are saved which is why more states are enacting them.

JMO

Kind a broad statement against attorney's IMO.

Do you agree that people will sometimes make false accusations against family members to attack them when they have a dispute?

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm very familiar with domestic law practices and the weaponization of the court process by attorneys. Their goal is $$$ and not the safety and welfare of victims of abuse.

More states need to enact laws similar to the Jennifer Law in CT.

Jennifer’s Law: What It Is, What's Changed & How It Impacts Family Law

Before 2021, victims were required to demonstrate that they were subject to continuous threats of physical injury or stalking. Learn about Jennifer's Law here.

ctattorneybrownstein.com

Red flag laws do work and lives are saved which is why more states are enacting them.

JMO

I find this incredibly offensive. But anyway. I don't think you really have much understanding of what goes on in domestic court cases if this is what you are referring to. I take almost no domestic cases any longer because I simply can't stomach it.

 

[MyBelle]

I find this incredibly offensive. But anyway. I don't think you really have much understanding of what goes on in domestic court cases if this is what you are referring to. I take almost no domestic cases any longer because I simply can't stomach it.

I understand domestic court cases very well. The father of my grandchild had an order of protection against him for two years, had supervised visitation only and was not allowed to own any weapons. A Judge made the decision because it was in the best interest of the child and her mother.

JMO

 

[Laughing]

I've asked this question before, and am asking again.

There was a tragic shooting in Sacramento, CA with multiple deaths & multiple shooters.

CA - Six Dead, Dozen Injured in Mass Shooting - Sacramento - 3 April 2022

Official: Sacramento shooting suspect seen on video with gun Investigators believe the brothers possessed stolen guns and are working to review financial documents, call records and social media messages to determine how and when they procured weapons, the official said. A stolen handgun found...

www.websleuths.com

At least five shooters involved in Sacramento massacre, gang ties likely, police say

Evidence has emerged that Sunday's incident resulted from a gang feud involving Crips and Bloods that escalated into gunfire.

www.latimes.com

Turns out, not one of the 6 shooters charged was legally permitted to possess a firearm in California.

Yet all 6 had firearms & used those firearms to kill.

Repeating, not one was legally permitted to posses a firearm in California -- yet each of the 6 did exactly that.

I am sincerely interested in learning how someone would create legislation that would stop those 6 shooters without carving away at my civil rights.

The six Sacramento shooters found a way around California's gun laws & their own criminal history.

Explain how you plan to stop their access to firearms.

Also think about which civil rights you are willing to give up when someone decides that they don't like something that is meaningful to you....

Thanks!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I've asked this question before, and am asking again.

There was a tragic shooting in Sacramento, CA with multiple deaths & multiple shooters.

CA - Six Dead, Dozen Injured in Mass Shooting - Sacramento - 3 April 2022

Official: Sacramento shooting suspect seen on video with gun Investigators believe the brothers possessed stolen guns and are working to review financial documents, call records and social media messages to determine how and when they procured weapons, the official said. A stolen handgun found...

www.websleuths.com

At least five shooters involved in Sacramento massacre, gang ties likely, police say

Evidence has emerged that Sunday's incident resulted from a gang feud involving Crips and Bloods that escalated into gunfire.

www.latimes.com

Turns out, not one of the 6 shooters charged was legally permitted to possess a firearm in California.

Yet all 6 had firearms & used those firearms to kill.

Repeating, not one was legally permitted to posses a firearm in California -- yet each of the 6 did exactly that.

I am sincerely interested in learning how someone would create legislation that would stop those 6 shooters without carving away at my civil rights.

The six Sacramento shooters found a way around California's gun laws & their own criminal history.

Explain how you plan to stop their access to firearms.

Also think about which civil rights you are willing to give up when someone decides that they don't like something that is meaningful to you....

Thanks!

jmho ymmv lrr

Reducing the amount of firearms in circulation would help the issue, imo. But it won’t eradicate it. Criminals will find a way to illegally get firearms.

I can give an example of at least three legal gun owners (likely four) who provided weapons and ammunition to a mass killer. The NS shooter that killed 22 people over two days also was not eligible to legally own firearms or purchase ammunition, but at least three people who could supplied him with weapons and ammunition. Three of his firearms came from Maine (one from a person who could legally purchase and own firearms who admitted that two of the weapons came from him. But he wasn’t charged.) Some of his ammunition was purchased by two Canadians who were charged.

I don’t think anyone is working towards disarming the entire US. From what I understand some of your leaders want something similar to Canada: a ban on ‘assault-style’ firearms, universal licensing and tighter regulations.

 

[MyBelle]

I've asked this question before, and am asking again.

There was a tragic shooting in Sacramento, CA with multiple deaths & multiple shooters.

CA - Six Dead, Dozen Injured in Mass Shooting - Sacramento - 3 April 2022

Official: Sacramento shooting suspect seen on video with gun Investigators believe the brothers possessed stolen guns and are working to review financial documents, call records and social media messages to determine how and when they procured weapons, the official said. A stolen handgun found...

www.websleuths.com

At least five shooters involved in Sacramento massacre, gang ties likely, police say

Evidence has emerged that Sunday's incident resulted from a gang feud involving Crips and Bloods that escalated into gunfire.

www.latimes.com

Turns out, not one of the 6 shooters charged was legally permitted to possess a firearm in California.

Yet all 6 had firearms & used those firearms to kill.

Repeating, not one was legally permitted to posses a firearm in California -- yet each of the 6 did exactly that.

I am sincerely interested in learning how someone would create legislation that would stop those 6 shooters without carving away at my civil rights.

The six Sacramento shooters found a way around California's gun laws & their own criminal history.

Explain how you plan to stop their access to firearms.

Also think about which civil rights you are willing to give up when someone decides that they don't like something that is meaningful to you....

Thanks!

jmho ymmv lrr

gang violence is addressed by multiple agency LE task forces. It is a huge problem in large urban areas. I doubt mass shootings by mentally unstable individuals who have never committed a crime are on an LE task force radar.

It is totally different than families or LE trying to temporarily prevent mentally unstable individuals from having access to guns to prevent them from harming themselves and others.

Public safety should be the top priority.

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Should the FBI agent not have had access to a gun? What kind of gun did he use? Should those firearms not be allowed?
I own over a dozen firearms. None have even ever been pointed at another human being. Why should I no longer be allowed to own them?

If any of your weapons are ‘assault-style’ I think at some point those guns will be banned, imo. Otherwise I don’t believe anyone is suggesting that America is going to outlaw firearms.

I don’t know you, but my sense is that you’re a responsible gun owner. My question would be is how your community would know that, and how they know that of all gun owners?

I read that vehicles have more regulations than guns in the US, which I’m hoping is a general statement that doesn’t apply everywhere. But, how are you all tracking firearm owners and making sure they comply with regulations, etc?

 

[MyBelle]

If any of your weapons are ‘assault-style’ I think at some point those guns will be banned, imo. Otherwise I don’t believe anyone is suggesting that America is going to outlaw firearms.

I don’t know you, but my sense is that you’re a responsible gun owner. My question would be is how your community would know that, and how they know that of all gun owners?

I read that vehicles have more regulations than guns in the US, which I’m hoping is a general statement that doesn’t apply everywhere. But, how are you all tracking firearm owners and making sure they comply with regulations, etc?

I think you are right. Illinois has banned assault weapons and so far the courts have upheld the new law. Those that own them must register them with the state police. It's yet another public safety law based on common sense.

JMO

Federal appeals panel upholds Illinois assault weapons ban

The Protect Illinois Communities Act bans the sale of assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Would a ban on assault rifles actually help to curb the violence? With rifles being a relatively uncommon type of weapon used in homicides in the United States, an assault rifle ban may not make much difference when it comes to the number of murders that occur. Homicides are overwhelmingly committed using handguns; they were found to be the most common murder weapon for nearly half of all homicides in the United States in 2019. Even hands, fists, and feet are used to commit homicide almost twice as often as a rifle is. An NIH study that investigated the levels of criminal activity committed with assault weapons or other high-capacity semiautomatics also found that these types of weapons are only being used in a small percentage of crimes: “Assault weapons (primarily assault-type rifles) account for 2–12% of guns used in crime in general (most estimates suggest less than 7%).” Wouldn’t all of the time, money, and resources being used to push for an assault rifle ban be better used elsewhere, such as creating a better mental health-care system that is accessible to those that need it most?

Criminal Use of Assault Weapons and High-Capacity Semiautomatic Firearms: an Updated Examination of Local and National Sources - PMC

Policies restricting semiautomatic assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition magazines are intended to reduce gunshot victimizations by limiting the stock of semiautomatic firearms with large ammunition capacities and other military-style ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Weapons That Are Most Commonly Used for Homicides

Which Weapons Are Most Commonly Used for Homicides? With the renewed push by the federal government for an assault weapons ban, we couldn’t help but |

www.criminalattorneycolumbus.com