Gun Control Debate #4

[Karinna]

100% agree and I've not even read the article. YouTube needs to take down every columbine video that is on there. Every single one. I don't care why it is on there. No more showing clips of them in those trench coats with that Tec9 slung over his shoulder just taking their time. No cops went in there for 47 minutes, but were there within 5 minutes, iirc. They still have the actual video of the two shooters in that school, tossing bombs.

I just finished reading the whole article and i think it is definitely worth a try of the suggestions made by the sociologist that wrote it.

 

[Karinna]

And this, also from the same article
(quote)
But it's also important to recognize that while mental illness plagues every society, the ways people express it are heavily influenced by the norms, heroes, anti-heroes, and spectacles of their own places and times. In the Middle Ages, psychosis may have involved visions of the devil, snakes, or witches. In the 21st century, it can involve dressing in pseudo-combat gear, donning numerous high-powered rifles, and walking through a public place in a blaze of violence. The shock value is part of the goal -- and the higher the shock value, predictably, the higher the ensuing media coverage, which fuels interest in the shooter and creates a whirlwind of attention and spectacle.

 

[human]

Poems by fourth graders who experienced gun violence

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/04/poems-gun-violence-philadelphia-elementary-school-students/

Because there was a guns / there was a cause and a effect / Because there was a gun / people died / because there was a guns / people got injered / because there was a gun / people wanted to kill there self.
Because there was a gun / My grandpa got shot / Because there was a gun / My cuzin got murdered / Because there was a gun / My Sister dad got / Shot 15 times in / the Back and arm.

 

[Karinna]

If you have a couple snorts and run across a funny, political or other hotbed topic, meme, and alcohol says, That's so funny, you should post that!!!!! Do not listen to alcohol. Do. Not. Listen. I had to go to the hospital in the middle of the night back a bit ago and they had to give me something in my vein through a drip line. I was just higher'n a kite and posted all kinds of stuff. The next day after getting home and looking, I deleted everything and told my husband to take my phone away from me next time.

Oh LOl, no we weren't drinking, and i can't drink anyway, but she might have had a few?
And LOL at your experience,

 

[Tillicum]

Logan Cole speaks out against nationwide student walkout demonstration

Cole, who was shot by Ely Serna, a fellow student that a brought a shotgun hidden in a backpack inside their school, calls for a different demonstration to protest gun violence.

"I invite all WL-S students, no matter your political views, to attend our memorial service for the Florida shooting victims. It will take place on Wednesday, March 14th, from 12:20-12:45 during lunch and homeroom. I feel that it is a good alternative to honor the victims of the shooting in a non-political way. I will not be participating in the Women's March walkout that day for the reasons mentioned in this video”, said Cole in a minute and a half video posted to his Facebook page.

Video at link.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

22 years ago, I remember watching the news that morning, just sobbing.

 

[flourish]

Interesting study

This nationally representative survey found that a large number of individuals in the United States have a combination of pathological anger traits and access to firearms. An estimated 10,455 per 100,000 population have guns at home in conjunction with anger traits, while an estimated 1,627 per 100,000 carry guns and have anger traits. The study also found a significant three-way association among owning*multiple*guns, carrying a gun, and having pathological anger traits. People owning 6 or more guns were about 4 times as likely to be in the high-risk anger/carry group as those owning only 1 gun (about 8% vs. 2% prevalence.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5116908/

 

[flourish]

Here's What Happens When a Black Man Open Carries Gun

Open carry is all the rage in gun-rights circles. Advocates strap handguns to their hips, sling AK-47s and AR-15s to their backs and stroll the streets with cameras in hand to catch unwitting cops violating their Second Amendment rights by asking for Identification or trying to ascertain if the heavily-armed man*walking toward a schoolmight be a threat. For liberty or some such.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/heres-what-happens-when-a-black-man-open-carries-gun

 

[black_squirrel]

Here's an article
(quote)
The Media Needs to Stop Inspiring Copycat Murders. Here's How
After a wave of teen suicides in the 1980s, news outlets began reporting on these deaths more cautiously. Similar guidelines could help prevent more shooting sprees.
https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...p-inspiring-copycat-murders-heres-how/266439/

I strongly agree with the general thought of this article (some of the details are up for discussion). I would like to add that news organizations should
refrain from showing live images. These are traumatizing. The shooters seek to shock and cause terror so that they can live/die in infamy. The news
should be covered while not spreading the terror. I believe in freedom of the press, but I hope that news organizations would self-regulate to
achieve this.

 

[black_squirrel]

I agree with arming teachers following similar guidelines set forth by schools in Fayetteville, Texas.

Fayetteville ISD OK's concealed handguns on campus for 'Guardian' teachers

http://www.kvue.com/article/news/lo...on-campus-for-guardian-teachers/269-523626544

Harvey said their goal was not to create vigilante teachers who would take unnecessary risks and escalate situations. Rather, this program was meant to be used in addition to their normal lockdown procedure but give certain teachers and staff an opportunity to fight back in the worst of situations.

"The Guardians will be staff members who have passed each of the following requirements (and more):

1. Hand-selected staff members

2. Must have their License to Carry permit (LTC).

3. Must pass a psychological exam just like local law enforcement

4. Must qualify annually with the specific handgun they will carry.

5. Must be on the random drug testing list and pass all tests.

7. Must be trained in tactics for denying an intruder entry into a classroom or facility.

8. Must be approved by the school board."

Harvey added that "Guardians" will all be volunteers. There will be no requirement that any staff member or teacher be a part of this program.

I am strongly against arming teachers. They are qualified to teach, but not qualified at law enforcement. Even this long list of requirements is not enough. For one thing, the person would have to be able to hit a target! And (s)he would also have proper training in the rules of engagement, to make sure that no students are shot when they actually don't pose a threat. In other words, such a person would need to have all the training of a law enforcement officer, including regular training (not just a one-time training). So if we are going to arm a person in a school, we should put basically a trained security guard or police officer. And we know that that is not enough to stop these things from happening. There were security guards at Columbine and a police
officer at the Florida shooting that did or could not stop it. I would be afraid that if teachers aren't sufficiently trained, they could easily misjudge
a tense situation and kill an innocent student.

A teacher with a concealed handgun is outgunned. We cannot expect such a teacher to stop a shooter with semi-automatic rifles, tactical gear,
bullet-proof vests etc.

 

[KaaBoom]

100% agree and I've not even read the article. YouTube needs to take down every columbine video that is on there. Every single one. I don't care why it is on there. No more showing clips of them in those trench coats with that Tec9 slung over his shoulder just taking their time. No cops went in there for 47 minutes, but were there within 5 minutes, iirc. They still have the actual video of the two shooters in that school, tossing bombs.

In other words let's keep the Second Amendment, but dump the First Amendment. What a brilliant solution to a gun problem. :facepalm: Most of those YouTube videos are copyright violations anyway. YouTube constantly removes them and they get uploaded again, over and over. Censorship is not the solution to the gun problem. It's just the equivalent of sweeping the dirt under the rug.

Most mass media outlets have a ban on reporting suicides, but that doesn't cut down the suicide rate.

 

[rosemadderlake]

RSD- This chart is helpful to see how background checks work. I wonder how complicated it would be, logistics wise, to close loopholes? I wonder what percentage of guns are purchased at shows or online sources?

IMO- after participating here and absorbing views from both sides I'm coming to the conclusion that the issue is about "trust" and "distrust". -In each other, in government, in politics, in our leaders, and in our ability to find our way... I think that is the real crisis in America.

One thing I do feel strongly about is that our sober and tempered solutions will not be found in an immediate aftermath of a tragedy, nor will they be found in dropping the ball.

And republicans aren't the only ones who feel strongly about government overreach on the constitution...second amendment included.

The more I listen the more profound and complex I realize this country still is. And how the pendulum swings in times of turmoil. But I also feel we are energized over this very complex issue for the first time in a long time.

Here is a sampling...


Evangelical Leaders Say ‘Pro-Life Ethic’ Means Fighting For Gun Reform
For These Strange Bedfellows, The Ends Justify The Means
Over the years, Schenck has gone through an evolution in his views about gun reform. When he first began speaking up about this issue, he didn’t think the answer to gun violence would be found in more federal laws. In 2015, he claimed it wasn’t an issue about “gun control, but of self-control.”

Today, Schenck says he’s still hesitant about the phrase “gun control,” since it suggests to gun owners that the government is seeking to “control” their personal behavior. He prefers the phrase “gun regulation.”

He’s also hesitant about pushing for more federal controls, preferring that local and state governments take the lead. But he told HuffPost he now realizes that there are important instances when federal laws are needed ― such as when it comes to closing the gun show loophole and making sure all firearm purchases are routed through federal background checks.

“You have to deal with reality and the reality is that in many of these instances, the only remedy is on the federal level. I’ve acquiesced to that,” he said.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/evangelical-leaders-gun-reform_us_5a8c7a51e4b0273053a568f5



Gun offenders overwhelmingly obtain their guns through private sales.
A survey of state prison inmates in 13 states who were convicted of gun offenses found that only 13% obtained the gun from a gun store or pawnshop where background checks are required.13 Nearly all (96%) of those inmates who were already prohibited from possessing a gun at the time of their crime obtained the firearm through an unlicensed private seller.14

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/universal-background-checks/



Trump Pulls Back From Big Changes to Gun Laws After Florida Shooting
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump will support a modest set of fixes to gun laws, stepping back from some of the more sweeping changes he had considered after the country's latest mass school shooting, senior officials told reporters on Sunday.

Opting for a plan the administration officials described as "pragmatic," Trump backs legislation proposed in Congress aimed at providing more data for the background check system - a database of people who are not legally allowed to buy guns.

More contentious proposals, such as raising the minimum age for buying guns to 21 from 18, or requiring background checks for guns bought at gun shows or on the internet, will be studied by a commission headed by Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, the officials said.

The Justice Department will also provide an unspecified amount of grants to states that want to train teachers to carry guns in school - an idea already in place in a small number of states, and backed by the National Rifle Association gun rights lobby.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-new...-arming-school-staff-raising-gun-purchase-age



No, there haven’t been 18 school shootings in 2018. That number is flat wrong.
After The Washington Post published this report, Everytown removed the Jan. 3 suicide outside the closed Michigan school.

The figures matter because gun-control activists use them as evidence in their fight for bans on assault weapons, stricter background checks and other legislation. Gun rights groups seize on the faults in the data to undermine those arguments and, similarly, present skewed figures of their own.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.e8e3b8db02ef


Right and Left React to the Las Vegas Shooting and the Gun Control Debate
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/...ft-las-vegas-shooting-gun-control-debate.html


An armed Utah teacher accidentally shot herself at school
While the right-wing and the NRA continue to call for more guns in schools as the best response to school shootings, claiming that only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun, they refuse to acknowledge the facts that countries with fewer guns suffer from fewer gun deaths. Besides, they never answer the question as to who decides who the good guys and the bad guys are.

https://washingtonpress.com/2018/02/23/armed-utah-teacher-just-accidentally-shot-school/

 

[flourish]

And then there's the issue of the 4th amendment and due process--if we start denying people their right to bear arms because of a diagnosis but not a conviction for anything.

 

[rsd1200]

Here itbis. Paint it Black. We sent 17, 18 year old kids to this. This is one of the most profound life changing things I have seen.

But then again, I taught Vietnamese and Hmong children.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x178lfy

FWIW, The song, Paint it Black was not about the Vietnam war (Stones fan). It is about death though. At any rate a 3:47 second video... If anyone on here would like to know more about the Vietnam War, read the book I mentioned upthread, or purchase this;

The Vietnam War: A Film by Ken Burns & Lynn Novick.

"Ken Burns and Lynn Novick's ten-part, 18-hour documentary series, THE VIETNAM WAR, tells the epic story of one of the most consequential, divisive, and controversial events in American history as it has never before been told on film. Visceral and immersive, the series explores the human dimensions of the war through revelatory testimony of nearly 80 witnesses from all sides-Americans who fought in the war and others who opposed it, as well as combatants and civilians from North and South Vietnam. Ten years in the making, the series includes rarely seen and digitally re-mastered archival footage from sources around the globe, photographs taken by some of the most celebrated photojournalists of the 20th Century, historic television broadcasts, evocative home movies, and secret audio recordings from inside the Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon administrations."

I purchased it for a sil who digs American History (as do I).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1877514/

 

[flourish]

GOP lawmakers make last-minute move to revive gun legislation

With less than three days left in this year's legislative session, Rep. Bill Smaltz, R-Auburn, offered a proposal Monday that would strip a bill originally intended to legalize the cannabis extract CBD oil and replace the language with the gun measure.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...ndgun-carry-permit-fee-unrelated-b/415908002/

Yeah that's honest /s

 

[bluesneakers]

The NRA and Dana Loesch preach female empowerment — yet constantly attack women








https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...erment-yet-constantly-attack-women-ncna855916

Just add some color and women will love it.

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/category.cfm/sportsman/guns-of-color-rifles-pink

 

[bluesneakers]

Overcompensation Nation: It’s time to admit that toxic masculinity drives gun violence

https://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/ov...t_that_toxic_masculinity_drives_gun_violence/

Thanks for the link.

The idea that a bunch of drunk people dancing around a nightclub are safer with loaded weapons on their bodies is clearly not coming from a rational place, but from a place of deep insecurity and gender weirdness that treats phallic symbols like they are magical totems. But the reality is that there was armed security at the club, an off-duty police officer who did engage Mateen, but failed to take him down. Our country is saturated in guns, and yet the mythical "good guy with a gun" who is promised to stop mass shootings has yet to actually produce himself.

That is because the "good guy with a gun" is a myth, propped up to justify toxic masculinity's obsession with guns, and nothing more.

 

[flourish]

Just add some color and women will love it.

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/category.cfm/sportsman/guns-of-color-rifles-pink

http://www.humorandmemes.com/glitter-like-favorite-color-beauty-paegent-meme/

 

[bluesneakers]

How likely is it that some man is going to break in and murder you? I can honestly say, that that has never, ever been a number one fear of mine. I did fear my ex husband on a few occasions and was at more danger from him, than any random stranger who broke into my house to murder me.

And why is it so hard to step back and figure out how to deal with people breaking into homes in some other way? Or why not consider WHY people are doing it and work on that? But that's not nearly so glamourous.

 

[flourish]

According to the NRA, the commentaries “are insightful, wide-ranging and quite frequently laugh-out-loud funny” and “Even 10 or more years later, many of his observations remain astute and timely, particularly in advance of the 2016 presidential election.”

Cooper often used racial slurs in his newsletter, including calling people of Middle Eastern descent “ragheads,” black children “pickaninnies” and “goblins,” Japanese people “nips,” Vietnamese people “gooks,” American Indians “pesky redskins” and “Injuns,” and black South Africans “kaffirs” -- a term equivalent to the slur “******” in the United States.

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2...newsletter-frequently-defended-slavery/212184

Thumbs up!!!