Gun Control Debate #3

[kittythehare]

I disagree. I am a veteran and well familiar with firearms. In the confines of a building, a handgun gives a fighting chance. Just exchanging fire with the gunman distracts, delays him, buying time for children to escape.

Is this incorrect, then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VKnH7EdcQ

 

[Tillicum]

Right, so why did you say it? Perhaps you misunderstood my comment...



It's not like anyone posting here has the ability to force anyone to carry or not carry a weapon. We're just debating, discussing ideas and sharing facts. If you have a problem with the information I shared then it's okay to just say that, rather than try to twist my comment. Thank you.

My intent was not to twist your comment. But do you have a link to support "Guns in the classroom will lead to more deaths in the classroom." as a fact?

 

[bobcat]

I'd burn the lotta them.. but to respect your question.. first thing that comes to mind is a surge of on the spot inspections of homes with guns and stiff prosecutions for unsecured or partially secured guns.
-a limit to the numbers of guns a single person can hold at any one time.
-Traceability of all firearms
-age limit to 30.
-strict enforcement of background checks and an additional requirement for a medical certificate from a doctor , who has been the applicant's doctor for at least 10 years certifying sanity, basically.
- a similar letter from LE from every address applicant has lived for past 10 years.
-eyesight tests, hearing tests, mandatory upskilling tests following a prolonged, at least 6 month training course on all aspects of gun ownership prior to being granted the first gun.
- annual re-applications mandatory and retraining in full for a 6 month period every 4 years.
- very heavy, cast iron, bolted-to-floor double cased gun safes..
- a massive increase in police recruitment and a response time of 10-15 minutes top for remote areas. (means investment in choppers)

Still want it?
Prove it.
EARN the right to own a killing machine.

That’s all crazy and totally unrealistic. All those things you mention certainly aren’t needed or wanted by most Americans. This is exactly why we have the NRA.

 

[bluesneakers]

My intent was not to twist your comment. But do you have a link to support "Guns in the classroom will lead to more deaths in the classroom." as a fact?

I said there are no studies, but we do have the facts about what a gun in the home leads to. I don't know what else we can compare guns in the classroom to. We know a gun in the home increases the risk of death and suicide, so would that not apply to having a gun in the classroom? IMO it would. I mean, people who own a gun are more likely to use it on themselves or a family member, is it a stretch to assume a similar statistic wouldn't apply in the classroom?

 

[kittythehare]

That’s all crazy and totally unrealistic. All those things you mention certainly aren’t needed or wanted by most Americans. This is exactly why we have the NRA.

It is about gun safety, each and every suggestion.
I do not see any insanity there.
Inconvenient, maybe, but hell, we're talking about firepower, power to extinguish life itself.
and if the NRA serves the function of abhorring safety measures they should be placed on a terrorist watchlist, IMHO

 

[flourish]

I said there are no studies, but we do have the facts about what a gun in the home leads to. I don't know what else we can compare guns in the classroom to. We know a gun in the home increases the risk of death and suicide, so would that not apply to having a gun in the classroom? IMO it would. I mean, people who own a gun are more likely to use it on themselves or a family member, is it a stretch to assume a similar statistic wouldn't apply in the classroom?

Ohio will likely be able to offer some statistics after a while. But if a gun in a home increases risk of being shot, it's not far fetched that guns in schools may have be similar.

 

[PrairieWind]

Is this incorrect, then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VKnH7EdcQ

The Doctor's description of injuries is incomplete. A 9mm or 40 cal handgun with hollow point ammo, which is what would be used, will leave a devestating injury, far MORE than 5.56 round. As for the chaos of a shooting scene, the noise, the tunnel vision, etc, all that also appliest to the gunman as well. Most of these gunmen have NO training at all. It comes down to this: if a gunman enters your room shooting, are you willing to defend your self, or just die? Are you willing to at least try to defend and save our children, or are you not?

 

[KaaBoom]

rbbm

This, exactly! That's why no one should give up their right to defend themselves. We are our own protectors. It also makes the case for arming teachers.

The police aren't going to protect the students, but armed teachers will. :facepalm: That makes no sense. If the police aren't going to do it, teachers are certainly not going to do it. Nobody is going to be safe in a society with unregulated gun ownership.

 

[flourish]

It is about gun safety, each and every suggestion.
I do not see any insanity there.
Inconvenient, maybe, but hell, we're talking about firepower, power to extinguish life itself.
and if the NRA serves the function of abhorring safety measures they should be placed on a terrorist watchlist, IMHO

The main insanity I see (in general not pointing fingers) is the insistence that the second amendment supercedes everything else.

 

[kittythehare]

The Doctor's description of injuries is incomplete. A 9mm or 40 cal handgun with hollow point ammo, which is what would be used, will leave a devestating injury, far MORE than 5.56 round. As for the chaos of a shooting scene, the noise, the tunnel vision, etc, all that also appliest to the gunman as well. Most of these gunmen have NO training at all. It comes down to this: if a gunman enters your room shooting, are you willing to defend your self, or just die? Are you willing to at least try to defend and save our children, or are you not?

To that end , I would suggest the installation of bullet proof containers with toilet and drinking facilities within each classroom. A safe area, easily and quickly accessed by the teacher in charge.
He's not gonna keep shooting at a metal box because he will never know whether it is occupied or not.

If you wish I could make a peephole, a semiautomatic secure gun safe, a pepper gas squirter, and access to wild choral music controls within the container..(in my diagram)
Blow his mind, at least?

Other option could be a chute to a safe area that all kids would slide down instantly..

 

[PrairieWind]

The police aren't going to protect the students, but armed teachers will. :facepalm: That makes no sense. If the police aren't going to do it, teachers are certainly not going to do it. Nobody is going to be safe in a society with unregulated gun ownership.

Those teachers will be defending themselves too.

 

[flourish]

The Doctor's description of injuries is incomplete. A 9mm or 40 cal handgun with hollow point ammo, which is what would be used, will leave a devestating injury, far MORE than 5.56 round. As for the chaos of a shooting scene, the noise, the tunnel vision, etc, all that also appliest to the gunman as well. Most of these gunmen have NO training at all. It comes down to this: if a gunman enters your room shooting, are you willing to defend your self, or just die? Are you willing to at least try to defend and save our children, or are you not?

And there it is... If you aren't willing to be armed you don't want to defend and save children. That attitude is yet another reason teachers should not be armed.

There are other options besides don't care to protect and being armed. Ugh

 

[KaaBoom]

To that end , I would suggest the installation of bullet proof containers with toilet and drinking facilities within each classroom. A safe area, easily and quickly accessed by the teacher in charge.
He's not gonna keep shooting at a metal box because he will never know whether it is occupied or not.

If you wish I could make a peephole, a semiautomatic secure gun safe, a pepper gas squirter, and access to wild choral music controls within the container..(in my diagram)
Blow his mind, at least?

Other option could be a chute to a safe area that all kids would slide down instantly..

Do you have any idea how many trillions of dollars that would cost?

 

[KaaBoom]

Those teachers will be defending themselves too.

An endless line of teachers have already gone on record as saying they want no part of that responsibility.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The police aren't going to protect the students, but armed teachers will. :facepalm: That makes no sense. Nobody is going to be safe in a society with unregulated gun ownership.

What makes no sense is saying sorry kids you're on your own, LE and teachers can't protect you.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

An endless line of teachers have already gone on record as saying they want no part of that responsibility.

There are waiting lists for teachers that do want that responsibility in those states that allow it.

 

[Tillicum]

I said there are no studies, but we do have the facts about what a gun in the home leads to. I don't know what else we can compare guns in the classroom to. We know a gun in the home increases the risk of death and suicide, so would that not apply to having a gun in the classroom? IMO it would. I mean, people who own a gun are more likely to use it on themselves or a family member, is it a stretch to assume a similar statistic wouldn't apply in the classroom?

IMO it would be a stretch. Considering the type of training and qualifications these teachers would have to go through, IMO a better comparison would be with LE officers.

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Lo...been-arming-teachers-for-years-475340013.html

"It's not just a situation where they have concealed carry, that's not nearly enough," Hairston said. "We expect our people to be able to shoot as well as the Ohio Highway Patrolmen."

Teachers undergo training at the Tactical Defense Institute in West Union, Ohio. They are also trained through FASTER, or Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response. It's a program designed specifically for educators.

Hairston says teachers also undergo scenario training. He says there are strict requirements to pass and teachers are tested at least twice a year.

"This is not like we just found folks that want to put a gun on and want to conceal carry," Hairston said. "That's just simply not enough."

He says it's also not for everyone.

"We spend a great deal of time studying our staff. It's not just having the physical ability to shoot a gun, it has to be people that are mentally stable that can handle high pressure situations and can make a differentiation or distinction between between someone who is just angry and someone who plans to come into the building and inflict harm on our students or staff," Hairston said.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

You say, "even if it's just one, is that worth it?" in re armed teachers able to save "just one" life.

So I say in response, as soon as ONE (ETA: innocent) person is shot as a result of an accidental shooting (i.e., shooting a misidentified threat, poor aim, gun ends up in wrong hands, etc.) by one of these armed teachers, and we ask, "was JUST ONE worth it?" what will YOU say?

Ahem...

 

[flourish]

Okay we get it some teachers are on board while others aren't.

I don't think it's a smart or safe idea--it doesn't matter to me how many want to do it! It impacts EVERYONE in the school. Again I'm curious about what teacher unions are saying?

If law enforcement doesn't have to protect citizens why are we expecting teachers to do so? Absurd!

 

[bluesneakers]

There are waiting lists for teachers that do want that responsibility in those states that allow it.

Do you have a link supporting this? What about a comparison of how many are on a waiting list vs. how many have stated they do not want to carry? Is there a chance some might not be permitted to carry or own weapons, but being a teacher would supersede those regulations? Thanks.