Gun Control Debate #4

[CARIIS]

Commentary: We learned how to regulate cars. Why not guns?
No one is going to take your guns away. The Second Amendment is here to stay.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comm...we-learned-how-to-regulate-cars-why-not-guns/

how all this some ghosts somewhere are out to take everyone's gun is IMO delusional and paranoid.

If any believers just thought about it in a logical manner (its like the wall) cant happen

exactly how would this occur ?

A gun stealing army would be formed and storm around the nation breaking into citizens homes . searching them and removing private citizens property

that is called robbery burglary stealing breaking and entering

exactly who is forming this army of gun thieves?

A campaign like that we want you poster for world wars

Is this a big federal entity THe Gun Burglars of America

What skill set does the leader of this entity need?

Breaking and Entering must have the capacity to smell guns and their locations?

Will these parades of gun theives have protections kinda like well fargo in the old days when bank robbers attacked trains with gold?

Who funds this nationwide project

in small cities across the land I guess google could provide GPS data to locate some ranch in the middle of nowhere for a raid

This is silliness is identical is HItler rounding up the Jewish faith

Do we consturct places like Fort Knox to secure these weapons

Might we have a Oceans Eleven operation where they helicopter in and complete a machine gun caper

Do we use SWAT type groups to break in and locate these items

how long do we store these millions of guns?

Where do we get the money to build all these Fork Knoxes

How do we stop the gun bruglars from black marketing ( like cops with drugs) selling them on the black market

that would require the gun stealing agency to revist and break into private citizens to retake the weapons

I suppose when this master gun raiders are traveling across the land i suppose these Paul Revere things could just leave the ammutation there if they break in and steal all the guns

if we took all lthe ammunition while we breaking in across the nation would need to build ( I guess like prisons ) to safeguard

I suppose we would have a bunch of like rudy ridges or whatever that was called as gunfights happen across the nation to protect their machine guns

we would then need to build a bunch of big morgues for all the dead people in these exchanges while fighting to the death to keep their arms

that to me would in and of itself be wildly moronic --why be willing to end up dead to protect having a gun - for those that succeed in guarding their guns stashes but being dead is kinda like working on car safety programs where everyone end up deceased

ain't gonna happen can happen federal agencies cant even do their jobs as outlined

just ludicrous and undoable moo

Motion pictures could made The Gun Avengers open everywhere sat

jeeeezzz think it out

 

[Chicago Bulls]

The Florida shooters father allowed access to his gun safe.
No one should have acess to firearms if they are under mental treament or on antipsychotics.

 

[Chicago Bulls]

how all this some ghosts somewhere are out to take everyone's gun is IMO delusional and paranoid.

If any believers just thought about it in a logical manner (its like the wall) cant happen

exactly how would this occur ?

A gun stealing army would be formed and storm around the nation breaking into citizens homes . searching them and removing private citizens property

that is called robbery burglary stealing breaking and entering

exactly who is forming this army of gun thieves?

A campaign like that we want you poster for world wars

Is this a big federal entity THe Gun Burglars of America

What skill set does the leader of this entity need?

Breaking and Entering must have the capacity to smell guns and their locations?

Will these parades of gun theives have protections kinda like well fargo in the old days when bank robbers attacked trains with gold?

Who funds this nationwide project

in small cities across the land I guess google could provide GPS data to locate some ranch in the middle of nowhere for a raid

This is silliness is identical is HItler rounding up the Jewish faith

Do we consturct places like Fort Knox to secure these weapons

Might we have a Oceans Eleven operation where they helicopter in and complete a machine gun caper

Do we use SWAT type groups to break in and locate these items

how long do we store these millions of guns?

Where do we get the money to build all these Fork Knoxes

How do we stop the gun bruglars from black marketing ( like cops with drugs) selling them on the black market

that would require the gun stealing agency to revist and break into private citizens to retake the weapons

I suppose when this master gun raiders are traveling across the land i suppose these Paul Revere things could just leave the ammutation there if they break in and steal all the guns

if we took all lthe ammunition while we breaking in across the nation would need to build ( I guess like prisons ) to safeguard

I suppose we would have a bunch of like rudy ridges or whatever that was called as gunfights happen across the nation to protect their machine guns

we would then need to build a bunch of big morgues for all the dead people in these exchanges while fighting to the death to keep their arms

that to me would in and of itself be wildly moronic --why be willing to end up dead to protect having a gun - for those that succeed in guarding their guns stashes but being dead is kinda like working on car safety programs where everyone end up deceased

ain't gonna happen can happen federal agencies cant even do their jobs as outlined

just ludicrous and undoable moo

Motion pictures could made The Gun Avengers open everywhere sat

jeeeezzz think it out

But don't expect the ban on semi automatics to change much.

Australia has complete ban on semi automatics but now there are more automatics in Australia before the Tasmanian shooting.

Hundreds of automatics (banned in America) being made in backyards in Australia.
Police cannot keep up with the finds of automatic firearms like MAC10 fully autos discovered in use by organised crime.

These automatics are onsold onto lower level criminals after they have been used.

 

[Chicago Bulls]

Australian police have now been issued AR15s as they know how many automatic rifles have entered the country.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/j...s/news-story/e67da40de031be70cae7cd08ab560cd4

 

[Jennifer17]

But don't expect the ban on semi automatics to change much.

Australia has complete ban on semi automatics but now there are more automatics in Australia before the Tasmanian shooting.

Hundreds of automatics (banned in America) being made in backyards in Australia.
Police cannot keep up with the finds of automatic firearms like MAC10 fully autos discovered in use by organised crime.

These automatics are onsold onto lower level criminals after they have been used.

And still no more mass shootings. If they use them, they kill each other. It is also only tactical response teams who are armed with those guns.

 

[rsd1200]

The Florida shooters father allowed access to his gun safe.
No one should have acess to firearms if they are under mental treament or on antipsychotics.

His father is deceased. Has been for years.

 

[Jennifer17]

But don't expect the ban on semi automatics to change much.

Australia has complete ban on semi automatics but now there are more automatics in Australia before the Tasmanian shooting.

Hundreds of automatics (banned in America) being made in backyards in Australia.
Police cannot keep up with the finds of automatic firearms like MAC10 fully autos discovered in use by organised crime.

These automatics are onsold onto lower level criminals after they have been used.

Can you tell me where all these automatic guns are being used to commit murders in Australia? I think that our last murder by gun was about four weeks ago. A bikie gang member who had been released from jail on parole, for murdering a member of another bikie gang.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

I just want to see my history lesson brought back... The Magna Carta.... The bill of rights was and is at the center of the gun debate.

Gun reform cannot happen without adhering to the past. For America we are different... We fought for this right. To know the origins of why is crucial.

We have many here giving us a hard time and rooting for us. Why? History...

To understand the "now", where does it come from?

What about the mirror revolutions of France and the USA? I think we are more sympatico than we know.

Why is it France, Canada, Australia, and UK are all chiming in?

Their history is trying to help us!

Even if I get exasperated I do believe their intentions are good...

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

We need history, we need to go back in order to go forward.

BBM

Sorry...

It's just that we like you (seriously) and it's hard to remain silent when kids slaughter kids and some people say that the solution is more guns.

 

[ohreally]

I do think that mental illness and some of the drugs used to treat mental illness needs to be part of the gun debate. I realize it is a touchy topic because mental illness covers so much. I am one that knows very little about mental illness and which ones could make a person suicidal or murderous, or if there is even a category.
So please bare with me. I am concerned that if a person is in a place in thier life where they need mental help they will not seek it if thier guns and other liberties can be taken away. I also believe others that have a long history of violence from mental health should never own a gun.
I am a stable non violent person. I had a tramatic event in my life where I needed mental help. I went to mental counseling and was also prescribed drugs that could make a person suicidal. Thank goodness it didn't happen in my case, but it could of happened. I do feel that during the that time I was not in a place to use a gun even for target practice, eventhough i never felt suicidal or violent, I was not in the right frame of mind. That was many years ago. I do credit the counselor for helping me get my life back as I know it.
The reason I bring this up is because IMO there is a big difference between someone that needs help getting through a tough time, and someone that has a history of violence because of mental illness. I do not want to see a law that stops someone from getting help because seeing a counselor for follows them for life. I also don't want someone that has a violent history be allowed to have a gun.

 

[Elley Mae]

I do think that mental illness and some of the drugs used to treat mental illness needs to be part of the gun debate. I realize it is a touchy topic because mental illness covers so much. I am one that knows very little about mental illness and which ones could make a person suicidal or murderous, or if there is even a category.
So please bare with me. I am concerned that if a person is in a place in thier life where they need mental help they will not seek it if thier guns and other liberties can be taken away. I also believe others that have a long history of violence from mental health should never own a gun.
I am a stable non violent person. I had a tramatic event in my life where I needed mental help. I went to mental counseling and was also prescribed drugs that could make a person suicidal. Thank goodness it didn't happen in my case, but it could of happened. I do feel that during the that time I was not in a place to use a gun even for target practice, eventhough i never felt suicidal or violent, I was not in the right frame of mind. That was many years ago. I do credit the counselor for helping me get my life back as I know it.
The reason I bring this up is because IMO there is a big difference between someone that needs help getting through a tough time, and someone that has a history of violence because of mental illness. I do not want to see a law that stops someone from getting help because seeing a counselor for follows them for life. I also don't want someone that has a violent history be allowed to have a gun.

Exactly why a persons medical records and legal gun ownership should ever be cross referenced.

Listening to talk radio a week or two ago a lady called in and was saying that Dr’s are asking patients if they are gun owners, the host cut her off and said that is not true, she insisted it was. He informed her that he has never been asked. I don’t know that it happens, i know i have never been asked and i don’t know anyone that has been asked by their Dr.

 

[ohreally]

Exactly why a persons medical records and legal gun ownership should ever be cross referenced.

Listening to talk radio a week or two ago a lady called in and was saying that Dr’s are asking patients if they are gun owners, the host cut her off and said that is not true, she insisted it was. He informed her that he has never been asked. I don’t know that it happens, i know i have never been asked and i don’t know anyone that has been asked by their Dr.

I was never asked, and in Florida I do believe it is illegal for a doctor to ask. I believe a doctor, counselor needs to inform a patient of the dangers without asking if they own a gun. I was never told, I read up about the drug. A patient can not make an informed decision if they don't know the dangers. IMO
My main concern is that if patients are punished in any way for needing to seek mental health they will not go and get the help they need. IMO if people don't get the mental health when they need it, it will only get worse.

 

[ohreally]

Exactly why a persons medical records and legal gun ownership should ever be cross referenced.

Listening to talk radio a week or two ago a lady called in and was saying that Dr’s are asking patients if they are gun owners, the host cut her off and said that is not true, she insisted it was. He informed her that he has never been asked. I don’t know that it happens, i know i have never been asked and i don’t know anyone that has been asked by their Dr.

A sincere question I have. In the case of NC do you believe he should of been reported by his doctors, the police. I do. I think there were many red flags that should of never allowed him to legally purchase a gun. Just my opinion.

 

[CARIIS]

But don't expect the ban on semi automatics to change much.

Australia has complete ban on semi automatics but now there are more automatics in Australia before the Tasmanian shooting.

Hundreds of automatics (banned in America) being made in backyards in Australia.
Police cannot keep up with the finds of automatic firearms like MAC10 fully autos discovered in use by organised crime.

These automatics are onsold onto lower level criminals after they have been used.

I totally agree. To be honest my core belief is it frankly hopeless.

This is a part of this soceity and will everlasting.

Folks that are wanting to go slaughter as many people as possible tend not to be law abiding !

The notion that it being "illigal" only has meaning for law abiding folks.

Once any new law is actually eneacted people figure out ways around any law. Heroin is illigal. Selling oxcotin is illigal. Mudering people is illigal '

All remain .

Spending millions on bullet proof glass -- they stand outside at school start or end. Any effort we have done folks just find a way around it.

There are too many already out there.

The free simple best effort is backpacks are no longer allowed at any school in the nation.

Peroid.

We often hear of backpacks loaded with tons of stuff after each one.

Nice clean and simple . FREE!

I think the real positive IMf the kids is Parkland is it has activated an entire new generation into voting. That is phenomenal.

That in and of itself could result in sweeping changes as it relates to some of the horrors that evolved in recent decades.

These kids will vote on issues - not party/ THey just are not into that.

That is huge. Generally speaking Gen Z has no issue with race, religion, sexuality, abortion weed ethnicity of peers -all the nonsense that are issues etc etc.. They care about the environment .

That in and of itself will erase a lot of the BS that clogs up our congress with a majority of people in congress who are dinansors, out of touch lazy corrupt .

The real next step wherein as a nation we can have civil servents that serve for the public is term limits for congress.

Another awesome angle of youth getting involved . IMO , is the profound decrease in any beliefs about religion. That in and of itself results in a far less judgemental set of voters. IMO like it or not religion is critical, judgmental, shaming etc etc

Again moving in directions that reflect the new era we live in

Live and let live.

That would go far and wide keeping leadership fresh motivated - go in - do your time get out and move on

There is noway on earth folks born in 1929 have a real grasp on what the country needs.

Their far more sophisticated (as we witnessed ) than generation of past because of the internet.

They are young -- as we have heard they are totally repusled by what is going on in terms of Washington.

The awesome thing about the FL law change is it I would think has been empowering for youth nationwide.

First hand they saw by being active in the process can result in change.

I hope it does not fade by midterms -- these kids could really help flip the sleaze that is going on in DC and all the way around that can only help the nation overall.

It will be neat to see actual turnout of the 24th. The women's march was thrilling and hopeful. It was a step.

Again share Lyft is offering free rides to the March and I think that could really help in terms of socioeconomic status of youth and ability to get there..

We need lots of change up there its a cesspool . I just hope they can remain intense until the midterms and hopefully toss out a bunch of people -- get new blood in there.

The crooks in there now are rotting ........

Changing the batteries always makes anything work better......

moo

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

 

[MaryG12]

I was never asked, and in Florida I do believe it is illegal for a doctor to ask. I believe a doctor, counselor needs to inform a patient of the dangers without asking if they own a gun. I was never told, I read up about the drug. A patient can not make an informed decision if they don't know the dangers. IMO
My main concern is that if patients are punished in any way for needing to seek mental health they will not go and get the help they need. IMO if people don't get the mental health when they need it, it will only get worse.

DH and I were just talking about this, and something rather interesting came up.

What about people who are normally not mentally ill, but may act as such when under the influence of alcohol?

Act completely different than when they are sober, but because of the alcohol, become so volatile they grab the nearest gun and start shooting at the people around them? I don't mean the type of person who is smashed and passed out on the front lawn of their house/apartment, but those who are dangerous to be around when they've had a few too many.

I think this should be addressed as well, and for some interesting stats (I regret to say the FL city I live in ranks #1 in this spot), some links follow:

http://www.fsos.org/sarasota-countys-youth-highest-alcohol-consumption-rate-florida/


http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/LK/20150423/News/605194955/SH/


https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/articles/2015/12/1/how-sarasota-ranks

 

[enelram]

I was never asked, and in Florida I do believe it is illegal for a doctor to ask. I believe a doctor, counselor needs to inform a patient of the dangers without asking if they own a gun. I was never told, I read up about the drug. A patient can not make an informed decision if they don't know the dangers. IMO
My main concern is that if patients are punished in any way for needing to seek mental health they will not go and get the help they need. IMO if people don't get the mental health when they need it, it will only get worse.

I've never heard that it's illegal for a doctor to ask if a patient has guns (in Fl.). If I were a mental health counselor,
I would be on guard with all my patients today, in case they have a gun, and because I might become their target
when they have an angry meltdown. It's become the wild, wild west out there and especially when dealing with unbalanced people or patients.

 

[ohreally]

I've never heard that it's illegal for a doctor to ask if a patient has guns (in Fl.). If I were a mental health counselor,
I would be on guard with all my patients today, in case they have a gun, and because I might become their target
when they have an angry meltdown. It's become the wild, wild west out there and especially when dealing with unbalanced people or patients.

Here is the Florida law covering asking a patient about gun ownership. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.338.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Never thought of if at the time (2010) husband wanted separation, sister died, month later father died. Couple months later went to Dr, she put me on anti depressant, i didn’t ask for it. After not feeling right I weaned myself off of them in the first months script. So yes i can see people not going for help if it’s held against them.

 

[ohreally]

DH and I were just talking about this, and something rather interesting came up.

What about people who are normally not mentally ill, but may act as such when under the influence of alcohol?

Act completely different than when they are sober, but because of the alcohol, become so volatile they grab the nearest gun and start shooting at the people around them? I don't mean the type of person who is smashed and passed out on the front lawn of their house/apartment, but those who are dangerous to be around when they've had a few too many.

I think this should be addressed as well, and for some interesting stats (I regret to say the FL city I live in ranks #1 in this spot), some links follow:

http://www.fsos.org/sarasota-countys-youth-highest-alcohol-consumption-rate-florida/


http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/LK/20150423/News/605194955/SH/


https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/articles/2015/12/1/how-sarasota-ranks

I feel that if I am legally drunk, there is no way I should be using a gun. To me it is the same common sense as why one doesn't drive drunk. I am pro gun ownership, but common sense has to be a big part of who can legally have a gun. I think that the same laws that apply to DUI should be enforced for guns. IMO

 

[Elley Mae]

A sincere question I have. In the case of NC do you believe he should of been reported by his doctors, the police. I do. I think there were many red flags that should of never allowed him to legally purchase a gun. Just my opinion.

As far as i am concerned the multiple police calls should have raised red flags.

 

[enelram]

Here is the Florida law covering asking a patient about gun ownership. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.338.html

Thank You, I had no idea! That really cramps the pro's knowledge of what they may be dealing with and IF a patient
in dangerous and capable of harming others. I'm shocked at this.