Gun Control Debate #5

[Hatfield]

Teacher accidentally fires gun and injures student during safety lesson

JMO
It is inexcusable that anyone trying to teach gun safety would not first check their weapon and make darn sure it is unloaded before teaching a safety class. The person should be fired from the police force.

Also I think the news article is misleading people on purpose. If I am reading this right he wasnt a regular "teacher" as we know it and would assume from the way the article is stated.

Doesnt this part mean he is actually a police officer and was just trying to teach a safety course?

"Dennis Alexander, who is Seaside City's mayor pro tem and a reserve officer with the Sand City Police Department, was teaching a lesson at Seaside High School in Seaside,"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/us/california-teacher-fires-gun/index.html

 

[bobcat]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/walkout

It’s legal and they have every right to do it. Protesting “on their own time” — this IS their time, imo. It certainly isn’t yours, tbh.

It’s fine that you disagree with it. That’s your right, too.

I don't mind certain students being involved in a protest, if they actually have an opinion and know what the protest is actually about. These students should be required to have permission from their parents to be leaving school. I don't like that some schools are sanctioning this event and even encouraging it. I also totally disagree with any elementary age children being involved.

 

[Blef]

I don't mind certain students being involved in a protest, if they actually have an opinion and know what the protest is actually about. These students should be required to have permission from their parents to be leaving school. I don't like that some schools are sanctioning this event and even encouraging it. I also totally disagree with any elementary age children being involved.

Why would you not want young children being aware that guns are a dangerous thing? Elementary school children are not exempt from gun violence. Surely teaching them that gun control and rules are important is important to you as a gun user? These children DO have a view. That they are sick and tired of their peers being killed at school. And I'm sure parents would have to veto them being out of school. It amazes me that responsible gun owners are terrified of gun control measures.

 

[Hatfield]

I don't mind certain students being involved in a protest, if they actually have an opinion and know what the protest is actually about. These students should be required to have permission from their parents to be leaving school. I don't like that some schools are sanctioning this event and even encouraging it. I also totally disagree with any elementary age children being involved.

I can understand why some would not agree with these protests.

My biggest fear is this is going to set a precedent where now every time there is the next "cause" that the kids will use it as an excuse to get out of class for the day and start a new protest for something else.

 

[Hatfield]

It's on the news here in Canada too. Amazing kids. The US should be proud that they are standing up and saying "no more!"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-students-walkout-protest-gun-violence-nra-1.4575661

In this case I have to agree that the need is just so great and everyone is just so fed up that not much has been done to protect kids since Columbine. If anything things have gotten worse since Columbine.

So in this case I have to agree that it is probably a good thing that the kids are taking matters in their own hands and protesting.

The only thing I am fearful of is what I mentioned in my previous post about my fear that this is going to open the door for other new protests about less important things and kids will start to create new protests for other reasons just to get out of school for the day.

Its a real fear I have about that because they will be able to say "you let us have a protest back on 3/14 about gun control so you should let us protest about "XXXX" too.

 

[bobcat]

Why would you not want young children being aware that guns are a dangerous thing? Elementary school children are not exempt from gun violence. Surely teaching them that gun control and rules are important is important to you as a gun user? These children DO have a view. That they are sick and tired of their peers being killed at school. And I'm sure parents would have to veto them being out of school. It amazes me that responsible gun owners are terrified of gun control measures.

This is a political stunt, nothing more. Not all students are going to have the same viewpoint on these issues, and ALL students should not have to feel compelled into going along with whatever the message may be. As I said, let students do their political protesting on their own time. And don't tell me this event today is a learning experience regarding gun safety. I'll teach my kids about gun safety at home and at the shooting range. As to the elementary age students, way too young to understand politics, keep them out if it and let them concentrate on learning what they're supposed to be learning in school.

 

[flourish]

I don't mind certain students being involved in a protest, if they actually have an opinion and know what the protest is actually about. These students should be required to have permission from their parents to be leaving school. I don't like that some schools are sanctioning this event and even encouraging it. I also totally disagree with any elementary age children being involved.

Certain students? How exactly did you ascertain the "actuality" of the opinions of so many students so quickly to know their intent? How exactly did you ascertain who did or did not have parental permission?

Are you perhaps making assumptions?

 

[flourish]

I don't mind certain students being involved in a protest, if they actually have an opinion and know what the protest is actually about. These students should be required to have permission from their parents to be leaving school. I don't like that some schools are sanctioning this event and even encouraging it. I also totally disagree with any elementary age children being involved.

If elementary aged children weren't at risk then perhaps I would share those feelings.

 

[flourish]

I can understand why some would not agree with these protests.

My biggest fear is this is going to set a precedent where now every time there is the next "cause" that the kids will use it as an excuse to get out of class for the day and start a new protest for something else.

Haven't protests been going on for much longer than this? Have copycat protests been an issue historically? Is the risk of possible copycat protests enough of a concern to want these kids silenced?

I'm not saying you're saying all that, Hatfield, just using your post as a starting point for mine [emoji4][emoji111]

 

[rsd1200]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/walkout

It’s legal and they have every right to do it. Protesting “on their own time” — this IS their time, imo. It certainly isn’t yours, tbh.

It’s fine that you disagree with it. That’s your right, too.

I think this will likely be my last post.

My friend, and I, spoke of the young people...

I've known him for over 35 years, a friend, of both my spouses, hence mine, and around a decade older than me. We live within helping distance. He is a veteran, he is pro-2A, he is a steadfast Trump supporter (We are FB friends too, so...). I'd guess 98.9% in my county voted for Trump. However, my friend and I had never discussed politics. He assumed, until just recently, that we voted in kind (and do not assume that I voted for HRC either). I think he still feels that we are of the same party though we are not. My county is deeply red. Just to give you premise.

I won't share his ideas, but I will share, that I think, my questions were welcomed, but he didn't want to skew my views (of which I didn't even share prior to his answering my questions) . I learned, in a nut shell; He didn't serve for only one side, to exercise their rights... He's proud of all of them. It doesn't matter if he shares their views, or not.

I am proud of all the kids who are participating, and exercising their 1A, and I'm proud to have my friend, who would fight for either side, to express that right.

Whatever this generation brings, I hope it's their best, for the sake of my grandchildren and their grandchildren.

#GoGenerationZ (I may have responded to the wrong post but ya'll get the gist.)

 

[bobcat]

Certain students? How exactly did you ascertain the "actuality" of the opinions of so many students so quickly to know their intent? How exactly did you ascertain who did or did not have parental permission?

Are you perhaps making assumptions?

Because schools are sanctioning this and allowing students to be absent without having to provide the usual parental permission as they would for any absence from school. Schools as a government entity should not be wasting our tax dollars making political statements, and they especially shouldn't be using students to do so.

 

[flourish]

This is a political stunt, nothing more. Not all students are going to have the same viewpoint on these issues, and ALL students should not have to feel compelled into going along with whatever the message may be. As I said, let students do their political protesting on their own time. And don't tell me this event today is a learning experience regarding gun safety. I'll teach my kids about gun safety at home and at the shooting range. As to the elementary age students, way too young to understand politics, keep them out if it and let them concentrate on learning what they're supposed to be learning in school.

Again, how exactly did you ascertain that this is a political "stunt" vs a political effort? Do you have some links to children stating they feel pressured? They're learning, hands-on, about politics! Are you a teacher? What's your pedalogical viewpoint? There seems to be a lot of assuming happening without anything to base it on, but please, feel free to provide links to the information that is leading you to these conclusions.

 

[flourish]

Because schools are sanctioning this and allowing students to be absent without having to provide the usual parental permission as they would for any absence from school. Schools as a government entity should not be wasting our tax dollars making political statements, and they especially shouldn't be using students to do so.

Do you have a link about the schools sanctioning these! I'm not saying schools aren't, but I haven't read that and since you're stating that as fact you're supposed to provide a link to your info per the rules of websleuths. Thanks

 

[bobcat]

If elementary aged children weren't at risk then perhaps I would share those feelings.

Will these young children being allowed to skip school and "protest" reduce that risk?

 

[flourish]

Will these young children being allowed to skip school and "protest" reduce that risk?

Hopefully, yes. Hopefully their efforts will bring about change regarding gun control.

 

[Hatfield]

Haven't protests been going on for much longer than this? Have copycat protests been an issue historically? Is the risk of possible copycat protests enough of a concern to want these kids silenced?

I'm not saying you're saying all that, Hatfield, just using your post as a starting point for mine [emoji4][emoji111]

Hello Flourish
I probably should have been a little more clearer. Its the "walking out of school" and kids taking off during a school day to have the protest which I think is what is so different this time. Normally kids are suspended or worse if caught skipping school.

Since some schools appear to be making it clear they wont punish the students I really hope this does not set a precedent for other less important protests to be created by kids just to get time off school.

 

[flourish]

You all have been posting some amazing thoughts and information.

Most of you.

Let's lay down some rules that should keep everything on track.

1-NO DISCUSSION OF TRUMP OTHER THAN HOW HE IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE GUN CONTROL DEBATE
This means no mention of how much he is hated or loved, anything to do with his tweeting unless it is gun control related.

2-WE CAN ALL AGREE TRUMP HAD NOTES DURING THE MEETING. End of story. Yes, I know some of the notes were telling or maybe not. IT IS NOT IMPORTANT.
Let's bring the discussion back to guns.

3-PLEASE STOP WITH THE ACCUSATION THAT THESE KIDS ARE BASICALLY PUPPETS. They are kids. They will get help from adults and adults would be involved. They will get a lot of help from adults who agree with them. Don't know how you feel but I am so proud of these young people it brings tears to my eyes.

4-PLEASE LET PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT OPINIONS EXPRESS THEM WITHOUT ATTACKING. I want to hear from the people who believe differently than I do. If someone posts an unpopular opinion, of course, you can challenge them but do it in a way where I don't have to remove your post and time you out. Please. Let every opinion be heard and discussed in a mature manner. As long as the opinions expressed are within our Terms of Service.

OK. Be nice to each other and let the discussion begin.

Thank you,
Tricia

Bumping. I would bold number 3 for emphasis but can't figure it out on my phone.

 

[Hatfield]

"Some districts welcomed or even tacitly encouraged walkouts, while others threatened disciplinary action against students who participated."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/us/school-walkout.html

 

[flourish]

"Some districts welcomed or even tacitly encouraged walkouts, while others threatened disciplinary action against students who participated."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/us/school-walkout.html

Thank you! I wonder if they just decided that was easier than trying to give everyone a truancy? The one walkout we had at my school ended up that way.

 

[flourish]

I can understand why some would not agree with these protests.

My biggest fear is this is going to set a precedent where now every time there is the next "cause" that the kids will use it as an excuse to get out of class for the day and start a new protest for something else.

My biggest fear is someone will use the gatherings as an opportunity for infamy and do another mass shooting.