Gun Control Debate #5

[flourish]

And leaving early for a vacation. In one private school in the city I lived in, they shut the school a week early before Christmas vacation because so many kids were leaving for Vail or Europe or the Bahamas or wherever.

And how about missing time because of fire drills, tornado drills and lockdown drills?

State tournaments? Kids leaving school to go out of the city for football, hockey, baseball, swimming, debate, cheerleading, robotics competition, what else?

Right?!! How many kids were absent on account of "away" games? A lot, all the way up to University!

 

[flourish]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the problem that I see is these kids are all being told what to think, and what to say. All students participating in the walk out today probably do not agree with the gun control message that's being put out there. I feel like these kids are being used by the anti-gun people. Elementary age children certainly shouldn't be allowed to participate. They're not old enough to have formed their own political opinions yet, and I'm sure they don't have a complete understanding of our Constitutional rights and why they're so important. It's not fair, in my opinion, to ask these young children to go out and try to help have their rights taken away. High school kids, I don't have as much of a problem with, as they're old enough to think on their own. But still, I see no reason why these protests can't be done AFTER school.

What are your thoughts about children being required to recite the pledge of allegiance?

 

[human]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the problem that I see is these kids are all being told what to think, and what to say. All students participating in the walk out today probably do not agree with the gun control message that's being put out there. I feel like these kids are being used by the anti-gun people. Elementary age children certainly shouldn't be allowed to participate. They're not old enough to have formed their own political opinions yet, and I'm sure they don't have a complete understanding of our Constitutional rights and why they're so important. It's not fair, in my opinion, to ask these young children to go out and try to help have their rights taken away. High school kids, I don't have as much of a problem with, as they're old enough to think on their own. But still, I see no reason why these protests can't be done AFTER school.

Does a six year not understand when a bullet kills a playmate, a parent, a sibling? Does a six year old not comprehend being told to lie down out of the way of bullets?

 

[flourish]

Does a six year not understand when a bullet kills a playmate, a parent, a sibling? Does a six year old not comprehend being told to lie down out of the way of bullets?

My husband was six when he was shot by another six year old. He knew what was about to happen, and moved to the side, which likely saved his life.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

What are your thoughts about children being required to recite the pledge of allegiance?

OT

It will be interesting to see what happens when Arkansas starts putting "In God we trust" posters in schools. The posters can be put up in any public building that's being maintained with state funds .

 

[PrairieWind]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the problem that I see is these kids are all being told what to think, and what to say. All students participating in the walk out today probably do not agree with the gun control message that's being put out there. I feel like these kids are being used by the anti-gun people. Elementary age children certainly shouldn't be allowed to participate. They're not old enough to have formed their own political opinions yet, and I'm sure they don't have a complete understanding of our Constitutional rights and why they're so important. It's not fair, in my opinion, to ask these young children to go out and try to help have their rights taken away. High school kids, I don't have as much of a problem with, as they're old enough to think on their own. But still, I see no reason why these protests can't be done AFTER school.

The high school demonstrations here were pretty small and low key. They were themed as anti-school violence and not really anti gun.

 

[bobcat]

Does a six year not understand when a bullet kills a playmate, a parent, a sibling? Does a six year old not comprehend being told to lie down out of the way of bullets?

That's a ridiculous thing to say. I don't think anyone, no matter their age, wants to be shot. I'm not going to ask a 6 year old for a solution to the issue of people killing other people with guns. If there was a simple solution I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[flourish]

OT

It will be interesting to see what happens when Arkansas starts putting "In God we trust" posters in schools. The posters can be put up in any public building that's being maintained with state funds .

Well that's a bunch of BS imo. I'm not Christian, I don't live in a Christian country, that's just wrong and a slippery slope, but yeah also off topic [emoji4][emoji111]

 

[bobcat]

The high school demonstrations here were pretty small and low key. They were themed as anti-school violence and not really anti gun.

What are they demonstrating against then? Are they hoping the future would-be shooters find some sympathy and decide against shooting up a school?

I'm at work so haven't seen much news as to what these walk outs were all about, but a few photos I've seen the students were holding signs that mostly seemed to blame guns and not the actual persons who have decided to kill innocent kids for no reason.

 

[flourish]

Does a six year not understand when a bullet kills a playmate, a parent, a sibling? Does a six year old not comprehend being told to lie down out of the way of bullets?

That's a ridiculous thing to say. I don't think anyone, no matter their age, wants to be shot. I'm not going to ask a 6 year old for a solution to the issue of people killing other people with guns. If there was a simple solution I think we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Re-read the post and show me where it says anyone wants to be shot and that we should look to 6 year olds for the solution.

Can we discuss the actual things people say/actual facts of today's protests/actual facts about what the children do or don't understand or feel, please? Ffs

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Been lurking this thread off and on, and appreciate many of the thoughtful and informative posts people are sharing. I came across this and thought it would be appropriate for this thread. Based on this study, it appears more work is needed to encourage gun owners to store guns safely.

New survey of gun owners finds more than half do not store all guns properly

The survey, believed to be the first nationally representative sample in 15 years to examine gun storage practices in U.S. households, found that 54 percent of gun owners reported not storing all their guns safely. The internet-based survey was fielded by the survey research firm GfK Knowledge Networks between March 15 and April 13, 2016.

Slightly more than half, or 55 percent, of gun owners with children under 18 reported storing all of their guns safely.

The survey defined safe storage as all guns stored in a locked gun safe, cabinet or case, locked into a gun rack or stored with a trigger lock or other lock. This definition is based on research showing these practices reduce the risk of unauthorized access or use

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180225184123.htm

 

[black_squirrel]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the problem that I see is these kids are all being told what to think, and what to say. All students participating in the walk out today probably do not agree with the gun control message that's being put out there. I feel like these kids are being used by the anti-gun people. Elementary age children certainly shouldn't be allowed to participate. They're not old enough to have formed their own political opinions yet, and I'm sure they don't have a complete understanding of our Constitutional rights and why they're so important. It's not fair, in my opinion, to ask these young children to go out and try to help have their rights taken away. High school kids, I don't have as much of a problem with, as they're old enough to think on their own. But still, I see no reason why these protests can't be done AFTER school.

Did any elementary school children walk out?? Where I live, it was mostly high school students (including my daughter) who walked out. High school students are old enough to understand these issues. They have been taught about rights, the constitution and understand it. They understand it just as well as the adults. They are influenced by their peers and by adults, like any person is influenced by the people around them, but they form their own opinion.

The point of such protests is to have some civil disobedience to get attention. Also, this issue is directly relevant to school itself. All the shootings took place during school time after all. This is just one day (or not even a whole day) of protest. The disruption in my opinion is minimal.

 

[flourish]

The children at Sandy Hook sure learned about school shootings. The shooters in some shootings have been quite young, such as the 2000 Michigan shooting of a six year old of another six year old at Buell elementary school.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm not blaming only one agency but ALL law enforcement agencies who were involved.

Would that include the lawmakers, since there was only so much they were allowed to do by law?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I wouldn't say I'm "angry," just disappointed that public tax dollars are being wasted on a message that I, and many other Americans don't necessarily agree with. I'm glad you give the NRA so much credit for protecting our 2nd Amendment rights. Without them there's a good chance the government would be coming to my house to confiscate all the guns I have in my safe. Maybe I should send a big donation?

Bit of a slippery slope, eh, bobcat?

The mass shootings, the murdered, the wounded, the walking wounded — this walk-out today was about all of them. It wasn’t about you and it wasn’t about your guns. This isn’t about you.

MOO

I’m sure it was quite cathartic for everyone, even the law enforcement, first responders and other taxpayers who fork out millions and millions of dollars to bury, heal, rebuild and treat in the aftermath of these preventable mass casualty blitz-shooting events. And in domestic violence incidents. And revenge shootings. And “accidental” shootings. And on and on and on.

Unless you’re violently mentally ill, personality disordered, actively planning a mass shooting, threatening to shoot your S/O, are an 18-year old who wants to own and use a military-style rife without any legitimate training or even a waiting period, telling everyone about your hit list, have a history of domestic abuse or stalking or threatening to kill people, are a felon, or fetishize gun violence, these gun reforms aren’t about you.

#30#

 

[kimlynn]

Bit of a slippery slope, eh, bobcat?

The mass shootings, the murdered, the wounded, the walking wounded — this walk-out today was about all of them. It wasn’t about you and it wasn’t about your guns. This isn’t about you.

MOO

I’m sure it was quite cathartic for everyone, even the law enforcement, first responders and other taxpayers who fork out millions and millions of dollars to bury, heal, rebuild and treat in the aftermath of these preventable mass casualty blitz-shooting events. And in domestic violence incidents. And revenge shootings. And “accidental” shootings. And on and on and on.

Unless you’re violently mentally ill, personality disordered, actively planning a mass shooting, threatening to shoot or S/O, are an 18-year old who wants to own and use a military-style rife without any legitimate training or even a waiting period, tell everyone about your hit list, have a history of domestic abuse or stalking or threatening to kill people, are a felon, or fetishize gun violence, these gun reforms aren’t about you.

#30#

Um hum Someone had to say it. IMO

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

What they need to be protesting is that the Parkland school shooting should not have even happened, if law enforcement officials had properly done their job. No new laws were needed to prevent that tragedy. Instead they want to place the blame on guns, and the NRA. However, even if I agreed with the message, I still wouldn't agree with it happening while school is in session. Do your protest after school, or on the weekend.

I appreciate your point of view and understand where you’re coming from. If you HAD to choose three solutions to reduce gun violence, what are yours? I imagine, because I have read your past posts in this thread, that there will be common ground with a whole lot of us here.

And also, respectfully, jumping off your post. Thinking out loud.

When there’s an inability or refusal to internalize events like these, they instead become personalized. (Instead of focusing on the issue, or the bigger picture, they focus on themselves instead.) Sometimes, with some people.

There’s, IMO, a cognitive dissonance. ... A separation from the actual issue.

There’s plenty of blame, but no sense of personal accountability — of the larger contribution our own behavior and beliefs have on what happens around us.

It starts to sound like a parody. Ageist. Absolutist.

Yes, tell them all to go to their rooms and think about how entitled and selfish they are for demanding they not be slaughtered by gun violence they have absolutely no control over.

Tell them to go read a book, or to rub some dirt in it and walk it off. Kids these days expect a participation ribbon for just surviving a mass shooting, let alone multiple school shootings. Ya know?

How dare they. Safety is fine, just nimby. Get off my lawn. Get off my gun safe.

Imho, that’s what it sounds like when people talk at each other instead of to each other.

It kinda starts to sound like the saxophone “adult” voices in those classic Snoopy cartoons. It abandons relevance.

MOO
IMO
Conjecture only

 

[flourish]

EuTuCroquet, I think I love you!

:blowkiss:

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

What are they demonstrating against then? Are they hoping the future would-be shooters find some sympathy and decide against shooting up a school?

I'm at work so haven't seen much news as to what these walk outs were all about, but a few photos I've seen the students were holding signs that mostly seemed to blame guns and not the actual persons who have decided to kill innocent kids for no reason.

Oh! Nvm.

In that case, we’ll probably still be here once ya get off work and have a chance to get caught up on what happened today and why.

Take your time.

[emoji106]❤️

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Slightly O/T - Calls from students to 911. Warning VERY INTENSE.

New 911 calls released in Stoneman Douglas shooting:
'They are all bleeding. They are going to die'

​http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...g-911-calls-coral-springs-20180313-story.html

Bumpity bumpity [emoji235] [emoji195]