Gun Control Debate #6

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Yeah in a perfect world, we can only wish. The 19 yr. old that perpetrated the act was mentally deranged. Mental illness was part of the problem too. If someone is mentally deranged and hearing voices that tell them to go shoot up a school full of kids, and how to do it, then guess what? Where there is a will there will be a way to do it. If not guns, maybe next it will be home made bombs? Isn't that what happened in Boston? Pressure cooker bombs? Or some other home made weapons that will exact lots of damage?

Are you comparing an AR15 style riffle to a pressure cooker bomb?

 

[Karinna]

Are you comparing an AR15 style riffle to a pressure cooker bomb?

I'm saying if someone is determined because of their mental state to do a mass killing they will find a way to do it. If guns are banned there will always still be a way to obtain them. When has prohibition ever worked?

 

[Blef]

I'm saying if someone is determined because of their mental state to do a mass killing they will find a way to do it. If guns are banned there will always still be a way to obtain them. When has prohibition ever worked?

Prohibition? Who ever mentioned prohibition? Why aren't sensible gun control reforms embraced? Why do people seem so threatened by change?

 

[Karinna]

Prohibition? Who ever mentioned prohibition? Why aren't sensible gun control reforms embraced? Why do people seem so threatened by change?

I would think most gun owners that are responsible with their weapons value their constitutional rights?

 

[jillycat]

Regardless of how you feel about his delivery, he and others are getting it done.IMO

What they seem to be achieving is a lot of fervor through screaming and shaming narratives that applying some acute pressure. The pressure to do something, anything, such as token bans on bump stocks and potentially bans on select gun platforms that won't stop shootings.

I don't see how they can sustain the attention their emotional tirade is currently providing. There's a point at which an audience tunes out the same rant/rage theater, different day.

It's as if they don't connect the dots between the political history of the generations they think are too stupid and old to have a voice, and their own current right to use their voices. ?

The remarks within the 'movement' that the Constitution is essentially archaic are frankly astounding.

The march signs quoting content from retired Justice Stevens' op/ed three days before it was published in the NYT are also fascinating. Not only in a psychic kind of way, but because some of the most vocal protestors have insisted that repealing 2A is not one of their goals. The Stevens remarks say two things pretty clearly:

"They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment...

Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

So, 2A repeal is indeed a goal. And it's about weakening the impact and influence of a particular political lobby. Let's let that just hang out there for a moment. A former SCOTUS Justice wants to amend the Constitution to silence the NRA and kick an annoying legal rule to the curb that protects select market actors. Or, another way to look at it is, on a claim of too much stymied legislative debate, Stevens would like to change up the Constitution to stymie the NRA's ability to debate legislative actions.

Didn't we settle 1A a long time ago, or are we repealing that too? Or, are we just limiting speech and market access to certain lobbies?

You really have to wonder how all this supports the claim that "We don't want to take away people's guns" and "It's not about red or blue".

Here's where the test lies: What other political lobbies would it be reasonable to silence by Constitutional amendment? My guess is, SCOTUS will be answering that. I guess we'll have to stay tuned to see if the Constitution is all that archaic.

 

[Karinna]

These "youth marches" for "the cause" are nothing new. It is history repeating itself again.

 

[Blef]

I would think most gun owners that are responsible with their weapons value their constitutional rights?

And they should understand that amendments should and can and have been amended for the good of society in general, or else the US would still have slavery for example

 

[jillycat]

Prohibition? Who ever mentioned prohibition? Why aren't sensible gun control reforms embraced? Why do people seem so threatened by change?

Former Justice Stevens has now mentioned prohibition.

 

[Blef]

I would think most gun owners that are responsible with their weapons value their constitutional rights?

The youth marched against slavery. They were right!
The youth marched against Vietnam. They were right!
The youth marched against gun violence.....

 

[Blef]

Former Justice Stevens has now mentioned prohibition.

I meant on this discussion. Websleuthers

 

[grammieto5]

I know that. Still disrespectful IMO. I don't expect anyone to agree, it's just my opinion, and how i was raised to respect my elders. But i guess some people don't get that.

Just because "someone" is an "elder" does not mean they just naturally deserve respect. Respect is earned. YEP! My opinion and all that.

 

[bluesneakers]

I would think most gun owners that are responsible with their weapons value their constitutional rights?

Which is why most of them support reforming gun law.

 

[Karinna]

The youth marched against slavery. They were right!
The youth marched against Vietnam. They were right!
The youth marched against gun violence.....

In your first two statements:
Slavery abolished? I don't think so. Maybe in the way it used to be against African Americans. But the general consensus is we are all "debt slaves" to a monetary system that is an external force outside of us that we all rely on. What is the Federal Reserve? It is a system of usury that keeps you indebted by creating debt out of nothing at all, and you pay the interest. Whoever controls the purse strings owns you.
And your second statement about the Vietnam War. The Vietnam War ended 9 mnths. after Nixon was impeached.
Has war ended?, NO. America is still at war but now in the Mid East, with threats also toward Russia & Nth. Korea. So what has really changed? We are probably on the brink of WW111. So here we go again.

 

[Karinna]

Which is why most of them support reforming gun law.

Who is "most of them"? Are you referring to the people with guns?

 

[bluesneakers]

Who is "most of them"? Are you referring to the people with guns?

I'm referring to gun owners.

 

[Karinna]

I'm referring to gun owners.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Blef]

In your first two statements:
Slavery abolished? I don't think so. Maybe in the way it used to be against African Americans. But the general consensus is we are all "debt slaves" to a monetary system that is an external force outside of us that we all rely on. What is the Federal Reserve? It is a system of usury that keeps you indebted by creating debt out of nothing at all, and you pay the interest. Whoever controls the purse strings owns you.
And your second statement about the Vietnam War. The Vietnam War ended 9 mnths. after Nixon was impeached.
Has war ended?, NO. America is still at war but now in the Mid East, with threats also toward Russia & Nth. Korea. So what has really changed? We are probably on the brink of WW111. So here we go again.

Doesn't change that they were right about their opinions.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

A potential school shooting was thwarted by someone reporting that student Timothy Felker had been making comments about shooting up the school

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article203612284.html

"An anonymous tip to a school safety tipline took police to the door of a 18-year-old Paul Laurence Dunbar High School student, and since then he has been charged with a felony and police have taken a rifle and about 500 rounds of ammunition from his home, according to court documents.

....When police went to Felker’s home on Feb. 17 they learned he was out of town. Investigators interviewed his mother, who told them Felker had made threats before of “shooting up the school, but it was before he purchased the rifle,” according to court documents. "
---

In this case, his own MOTHER had heard him make threats about shooting up the school, and then he bought a rifle and she did nothing about it!!!

And we wonder how these school shootings happen.

 

[Blef]

A potential school shooting was thwarted by someone reporting that student Timothy Felker had been making comments about shooting up the school

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article203612284.html

"An anonymous tip to a school safety tipline took police to the door of a 18-year-old Paul Laurence Dunbar High School student, and since then he has been charged with a felony and police have taken a rifle and about 500 rounds of ammunition from his home, according to court documents.

....When police went to Felker’s home on Feb. 17 they learned he was out of town. Investigators interviewed his mother, who told them Felker had made threats before of “shooting up the school, but it was before he purchased the rifle,” according to court documents. "
---

In this case, his own MOTHER had heard him make threats about shooting up the school, and then he bought a rifle and she did nothing about it!!!

And we wonder how these school shootings happen.

She should be charged as she knew he was making threats, knew he bought a rifle and did nothing.

 

[human]

I know that. Still disrespectful IMO. I don't expect anyone to agree, it's just my opinion, and how i was raised to respect my elders. But i guess some people don't get that.

I am a grandmother and totally agree. I am sick of fogey elders pulling a power card. I laugh at them. Who do they think they are? Respect is earned. They have not earned it