Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #8

[Weki]

This first witness seemed so lethargic. He was low energy at the first trial as well but he seemed catatonic today. Morrissey has to be annoyed by this but has to soldier on. Bad witness to start your case with but he was first officer on scene so it makes sense. JMO

 

[KSwizzle]

and yeah Baldwin's lawyer is really really good

 

[PrairieWind]

But it wasn't an accident, someone put a real bullet into that gun and it was fired and it killed someone

Clearly it was an accident. No one intended for this to happen. Was their negligence? Sure, even perhaps criminal negligence. But it was still an accident.

 

[KSwizzle]

Clearly it was an accident. No one intended for this to happen. Was their negligence? Sure, even perhaps criminal negligence. But it was still an accident.

I think that's fair to say, although it seems there was some extremely egregious negligence to the point if I was on the jury I wouldn't think it was an accident. There should never have been real bullets on set, and absolutely never have been real bullets put into the gun.

I'm not sure if Baldwin should be culpable or not, but it's hard to say it's only an accident when a normal person doing the job HGR was supposed to be doing would not do that. That's my base line, would a normal person who has that job, would it be reasonable that the average person would do or perform that action.

And that's on HGR, I have no idea how this will play out

 

[Marantz4250b]

Clearly it was an accident. No one intended for this to happen. Was their negligence? Sure, even perhaps criminal negligence. But it was still an accident.

Of course it was an accident! Well, accident in the terms of it being unintentional but unintentional discharges are properly referred to as negligent discharges!

I really don't know what AB's defence attorney is trying to show here when he was asking the cop as to whether he behaved like a guilty person. He is charged with negligent behavior and that he didn't care about other people's welfare. They are not alleging that he did anything intentional to cause death so it's entirely likely that he didn't realise he did anything unlawful. People are missing the fact that he's charged with involuntary manslaughter. If he intended this outcome he's be up for murder!

Really not too impressed with his defence so far.

 

[10ofRods]

Yup.

And for every prosecution witness complaining about Alec I believe there will be a defense witness to counter that testimony and say how nice he actually was on set, how helpful.

That it is pretty normal to get frustrated at times and these snapshots of Alec, 5 minutes here 5 minutes there, don't show how calm he is the majority of the time.

Did he ever get violent on set? Break things? Physically hurt someone?
Did he threaten anyone? Was he verbally abusive?

I haven't heard this.

2 Cent Opinion

They said in an earlier hearing that the Prosecution has 6-8 videos of him tantrumming, throwing a gun on the ground, waving the gun around, using the gun to point at [didn't say but either people or things} things, horsing around with the gun.

They did not say if they have a witness to the alleged "plinking" with live ammo - or whether Baldwin was involved, but they do have a witness who saw Baldwin and Hannah walk off toward the plinking area. The property on which the film was being shot is privately owned and even sometimes rented out to locales for parties that include target practice with live ammo. It's expected that the guests follow the rules of gun safety, as is true in all of New Mexico.

I think that's the Prosecution's biggest point: that the rules of gun safety are NOT suspended (ever) in New Mexico, not even on a movie set. SAG agrees (and the rules for gun handling in the movie business are an exhibit that the Prosecution has entered - they say the basic gun rules must be followed at all times).

Judge is going to permit the video and the testimony, she said at the hearing. Should be interesting. Defense claims that such rules are suspended on movie sets (and disregards their own facts about how there have been few gun accidents in the history of cinema - but that's because, yes, there are rules, even for the movies; it's still a workplace).

IMO.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Defense opening is argumentative and ridiculous. Seems to be glamorizing the movie making business and promoting Rust instead of talking about the facts. Finally State objects! JMO

Thank you for this as I was unable to view testimony this morning. And yet IIUC the judge had ruled earlier that several aspects of AB role in the production of this film were out of scope? SMH. MOO

 

[loreet]

I am already annoyed by AB’s attorney from opening statements. It feels more than a little condescending to me to introduce the Rust set situation as magical. As if the entire cast and crew were engaged in special magical practices which the rest of us — the jury and anybody watching the trial — need to place up on a pedestal and revere. It rubs me the wrong way. They need to come way down on that. It also appeared during opening statements as if AB was snearing, so he really should watch his face.

 

[PrairieWind]

They said in an earlier hearing that the Prosecution has 6-8 videos of him tantrumming, throwing a gun on the ground, waving the gun around, using the gun to point at [didn't say but either people or things} things, horsing around with the gun.

They did not say if they have a witness to the alleged "plinking" with live ammo - or whether Baldwin was involved, but they do have a witness who saw Baldwin and Hannah walk off toward the plinking area. The property on which the film was being shot is privately owned and even sometimes rented out to locales for parties that include target practice with live ammo. It's expected that the guests follow the rules of gun safety, as is true in all of New Mexico.

I think that's the Prosecution's biggest point: that the rules of gun safety are NOT suspended (ever) in New Mexico, not even on a movie set. SAG agrees (and the rules for gun handling in the movie business are an exhibit that the Prosecution has entered - they say the basic gun rules must be followed at all times).

Judge is going to permit the video and the testimony, she said at the hearing. Should be interesting. Defense claims that such rules are suspended on movie sets (and disregards their own facts about how there have been few gun accidents in the history of cinema - but that's because, yes, there are rules, even for the movies; it's still a workplace).

IMO.

The SO reports stated that they never could substantiate reports of live firing after hours. So if the prosecution leads in that direction the defense will be able to easily deflect it.

 

[10ofRods]

I think that's fair to say, although it seems there was some extremely egregious negligence to the point if I was on the jury I wouldn't think it was an accident. There should never have been real bullets on set, and absolutely never have been real bullets put into the gun.

I'm not sure if Baldwin should be culpable or not, but it's hard to say it's only an accident when a normal person doing the job HGR was supposed to be doing would not do that. That's my base line, would a normal person who has that job, would it be reasonable that the average person would do or perform that action.

And that's on HGR, I have no idea how this will play out

I think you're right - HGR comes out as the villain in this (and the Judge ruled that Alec's role as producer in hiring her cannot be introduced via expert witness at a pre-trial motions hearing).

However, it's a bit like other deaths related to negligence, more than one person may be involved in a chain of bad decisions. It's still true that Baldwin did not go to the safety training (his defense did not dispute that - I think they might still try, though). It's still true that the SAG and other union rules require a 3 part check to a gun - the last one by the actor in the presence of the AD (which didn't happen here).

If even one juror believes that HGR is the true culprit and that the SAG/union/OSHA rules are all irrelevant in a criminal trial, then Baldwin will not be convicted. But it is Santa Fe. Santa Fe has the highest proportion of Ph.D.'s in science in the nation, per capita (because of Los Alamos and other reasons). Santa Fe County is very small. People are not happy that there's a trial in the first place (expensive). The rules of gun safety are known to every long time adult New Mexican, probably because it has a high rate of gun-related homicide and manslaughter - and a lot of it is negligence (kids finding guns, people brandishing and shooting in the air on holidays; when I lived there, I found it terrifying and we even chose where we lived to try and be out of areas where the holiday gun shooting occurred; we still had a child dead in our neighborhood due to a neighbor's negligence - neighbor was an elderly man who asked boys to feed his dog by going into his garage, there was a loaded gun somewhere in the garage).

I think that gun safety is one of the hottest political topics in contemporary New Mexico:

https://nmlegis.gov/handouts/CCJ%20072522%20Item%206%20CGVS_New_Mexico_Gun_Deaths_2020_Factsheet.pdf

7th highest rate of death by gun in the USA, as I understand it from that link. People are quite concerned about the rising rate (and that includes manslaughter, and not just felony murder).

IMO

 

[whitelilac]

Is this Kari Morrisey, prosecutor, speaking now? I just joined.

 

[al66pine]

~ 1/3 Below Initial List Px. Now a bargain?

A little break from trial talk, courtesy of today's DailyMail.

"Alec Baldwin's Hamptons home STILL unsold after $10million price cut as source denies actor is under financial strain amid Rust manslaughter trial"

".... lavish Hamptons home is still unsold after a $10million price cut and almost two years on the market....
".... first put the 10-acre estate... on the market in September 2022 for $29million.
"January 2023, the price... $24.9 million... dropping again to $22.5 million in March 2023."

Apologies if already posted.

Alec Baldwin's home STILL unsold after $10m price cut amid Rust trial

Alec Baldwin 's lavish Hamptons home is still unsold after a $10million price cut and almost two years on the market - amid his Rust manslaughter trial.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[10ofRods]

The SO reports stated that they never could substantiate reports of live firing after hours. So if the prosecution leads in that direction the defense will be able to easily deflect it.

I think all they have is a video of him "horseplaying" with a gun. I do think there are two witnesses who say they say HGR and AB go off "in that direction," but I think of those two things, the horseplay video is more pertinent (and the judge is allowing about 8 videos and then a lot of pictures and testimony around safety on the set).

She disallowed an expert witness who would have tried to claim that Baldwin's role as producer included "general oversight.' The Prosecution may not go there, said the judge (into the duties and responsibilities of a producers, that will remain up to the jury to note and decide without any expert telling them what the Prosecution wants them to hear).

I won't be surprised if there's a hung jury - but I do think New Mexicans are watching with a view to having more legislation in the future. They've already passed one bill related to filming in New Mexico. The place where the below bill is under discussion is very close to the courtroom where AB is on trial:

https://www.krqe.com/news/politics-government/legislature/new-mexico-bill-could-end-film-tax-credits/

Those who are in favor of this bill (and I believe Gov Lujan is exceedingly ambivalent about it) are going to use a mistrial or not guilty verdict in their quest to regular movies in NM. I believe there's another bill that would require the movies to be only in certain places and have inspections. But no point in hashing that out if the tax credits go away - the movie makers will be much less likely to come. AB and the other producers got those tax credits and if they follow usual indie film policies, they split that money amongst themselves (AB did give money to production - so did the other producers, there were two goals: to pocket the credits and to get a tax deduction for the rest; IMO). Several of the producers have past schemes of this sort.

IMO.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think you're right - HGR comes out as the villain in this (and the Judge ruled that Alec's role as producer in hiring her cannot be introduced via expert witness at a pre-trial motions hearing).

However, it's a bit like other deaths related to negligence, more than one person may be involved in a chain of bad decisions. It's still true that Baldwin did not go to the safety training (his defense did not dispute that - I think they might still try, though). It's still true that the SAG and other union rules require a 3 part check to a gun - the last one by the actor in the presence of the AD (which didn't happen here).

If even one juror believes that HGR is the true culprit and that the SAG/union/OSHA rules are all irrelevant in a criminal trial, then Baldwin will not be convicted. But it is Santa Fe. Santa Fe has the highest proportion of Ph.D.'s in science in the nation, per capita (because of Los Alamos and other reasons). Santa Fe County is very small. People are not happy that there's a trial in the first place (expensive). The rules of gun safety are known to every long time adult New Mexican, probably because it has a high rate of gun-related homicide and manslaughter - and a lot of it is negligence (kids finding guns, people brandishing and shooting in the air on holidays; when I lived there, I found it terrifying and we even chose where we lived to try and be out of areas where the holiday gun shooting occurred; we still had a child dead in our neighborhood due to a neighbor's negligence - neighbor was an elderly man who asked boys to feed his dog by going into his garage, there was a loaded gun somewhere in the garage).

I think that gun safety is one of the hottest political topics in contemporary New Mexico:

https://nmlegis.gov/handouts/CCJ%20072522%20Item%206%20CGVS_New_Mexico_Gun_Deaths_2020_Factsheet.pdf

7th highest rate of death by gun in the USA, as I understand it from that link. People are quite concerned about the rising rate (and that includes manslaughter, and not just felony murder).

IMO

Can you point to the SAG rules on this? I'm not finding it.
" SAG and other union rules require a 3 part check to a gun - the last one by the actor in the presence of the AD (which didn't happen here)."

 

[minazoe]

Baldwin is completely innocent. mOO

 

[10ofRods]

Can you point to the SAG rules on this? I'm not finding it.
" SAG and other union rules require a 3 part check to a gun - the last one by the actor in the presence of the AD (which didn't happen here)."

The Prosecutor held a document up in her hand as Exhibit 1, but I do not have that at the ready. Each union has its rules or policies, here is Actor's Equity (SAG is similar):

Theatrical Firearms · Actors' Equity Association

If you go down the list, you can see the the Prosecutor was saying she was going to show that Alec broke several of them (gosh, I wish we could teach people who write these documents to NUMBER their lists and not just use bullets). I'll see if I can find the SAG rules (which I believe to be virtually identical). Then there are also rules for stunts and prop handlers.

But it's the actors' rules that are important to this case. Chicago Tribune says most states use the rules as the basis of their policy for film use of guns:

Gun safety on movie sets? States mostly follow guidelines set by studios, unions

New York prohibits guns from being fired overnight on movie sets but does not otherwise regulate their use. Georgia and Louisiana regulate pyrotechnics on movie sets but have no specific rules around gun use.

chicago.suntimes.com

Certainly, the feds do (which is why there's already an OSHA fine - insignificant, but that's only because the fine itself hasn't been increased by federal policy in a long time - when that fine was first invented, it felt higher to independent filmmakers, I'm sure).

 

[minazoe]

Can you point to the SAG rules on this? I'm not finding it.
" SAG and other union rules require a 3 part check to a gun - the last one by the actor in the presence of the AD (which didn't happen here)."

there is no union requirement for an actor to check a prop gun once it has been handed/cleared by the armourer on set.

 

[PrairieWind]

there is no union requirement for an actor to check a prop gun once it has been handed/cleared by the armourer on set.

This is what I am wondering. The SAG rules I found regarding firearm safety don't say that an actor is supposed to check the gun and the SAG has come out defending Baldwin on this.

 

[Luna20]

I think that's fair to say, although it seems there was some extremely egregious negligence to the point if I was on the jury I wouldn't think it was an accident. There should never have been real bullets on set, and absolutely never have been real bullets put into the gun.

I'm not sure if Baldwin should be culpable or not, but it's hard to say it's only an accident when a normal person doing the job HGR was supposed to be doing would not do that. That's my base line, would a normal person who has that job, would it be reasonable that the average person would do or perform that action.

And that's on HGR, I have no idea how this will play out

Just for clarification, are you saying that it was intentional? Because I don’t see any reason to believe that. Careless yes, arrogant yes, lack of order yes but I don’t think the goal was to take someone’s life. I’m not for Baldwin, I think he made bad decisions across the board and his temper is a constant threat but anyone would be stupid to take a life while filming a movie.

 

[KSwizzle]

Just for clarification, are you saying that it was intentional? Because I don’t see any reason to believe that. Careless yes, arrogant yes, lack of order yes but I don’t think the goal was to take someone’s life. I’m not for Baldwin, I think he made bad decisions across the board and his temper is a constant threat but anyone would be stupid to take a life while filming a movie.

No I agree with you it wasn't intentional, if there was any intention and blame it is on HGR for allowing people to use real bullets in the gun and not properly checking the gun before being used for filiming. And, I don't even think HGR did it intentionally, obviously no one would do that on purpose but her actions were the cause of a needless death