Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #2

[otto]

The only thing that doesn't make sense about otto continually saying the house mentioned in the Coy Barefoot article:

We have members on here who guessed this location by hearing police being called to this location to this scene around noon yesterday over the scanner.

Why would the police have been called to a location that was 3 miles away from where the actual body was discovered?

Does the photo of all the police activity line up with the address that was posted on the scanner thread?

 

[sunflowerchick]

I will never understand how anyone could take the job of defending a murderer. You could not pay me enough money to help try to get a murderer set free.
What is the reason for this "calling"? I'm guessing most would say they do it for the chance to defend the innocent, or that everyone deserves representation until proven guilty...

But what do these types do once the evidence shows their client is guilty? They try to get them a lessened sentence in any way possible.
I'm usually pretty accepting as a person, but honestly, I find it to be a disgusting way to make a living.

I actually completely understand it. Our entire justice system is set up a certain way and in order for it to work, people must have the ability to defend themselves, the innocent until proven guilty thing.

The state has the responsibility to PROVE that JM was the one who committed this crime. JM's attorney is responsible to see he is found innocent if they can't prove that he committed this crime. And I think even in the case that JM has given his attorney information of guilt, while protected under attorney-client privilege, a good ethical attorney wouldn't let his client just "walk away" to commit more crimes.

I do not believe JM will be found innocent but it is for these reasons that I am glad LEO are taking their time and keeping things quiet so as to prosecute correctly. They want to make sure that they can prove JM guilty.

 

[dda]

And another thing...there hasn't been any info leaked on where or how JM's taxi van was found, yet full on TV and print interviews about the remains that were found? How is it they've kept so many important things quiet yet the most important and sensitive info to date is revealed easily? Something's weird

Not weird. Intentional. They are releasing information for specific purposes, some of which are obvious and some of which are not (at least not to me). But I think you make a good point that there are noticeable discrepancies in what is being released and what is not. I feel very confident that this has been a well-choreographed case with regard to the media from the very beginning. JMO

 

[margarita25]

Will do. Thank you.

You're welcome. These articles will also be great in the media thread for future reference.

 

[otto]

You are correct. I have spent hours and hours riding my road bike up and down the Walnut Creek St. park road - it's a long hill and I use it for climbing repeat exercises. The entrance to the park is two lanes split by a large median - in some of the photos two awning tents are set up on this median. There is a "guard house" but no gate that I recall. During the summer time when the beach is open there is an attendant collecting a fee to enter the park during working hours. When the beach is closed, access to the park is unfettered. A sign notes that the park is closed after sunset. Shortly after passing the median, the road becomes two-lane. A drive leads to a building set back in the woods off to the right. This is the drive officers can be seen walking on in one of the circulating pictures. I had thought that the structure was a maintenance complex and, perhaps, inhabited by a ranger or park manager. It might not be inhabited - in that case it would be a very secluded place to carry out a crime - but as the maintenance building for the park I wouldn't call it abandoned. A mountain bike trail - The Bike Factory Trail - crosses the road just next to the driveway for the building. That trail loops around the building and runs between the building and the road. Several of the bike trails cross that creek, and if I recall correctly it does sometimes have water in it - but I might be confusing that creek with another within the park. My point is, the building and that driveway are solidly within the park.

I don't know much about command centers in search operations, but I can say this about the beach pavilion: There is a large parking lot right in front of it. It is covered. There are restrooms.

If this has been posted already, my apologies:
http://www.albemarle.org/upload/ima...ation/forms/WalnutCreekPark_TOPO_PageSize.pdf

Thank you for confirming with your own eyes what I can only see in media photos and maps!

 

[WideOpen]

Just popped in to say how glad I am that Hannah is presumed found. So many families never have the body of their loved one recovered. Bitter sweet it may be.
I think it is great all of you Hannah supporters remained vigilant in your efforts and shared your hearts and time. This case is full of the most draining emotional elements and twisting, time consuming details. It takes so much energy. You all have held on tight, never giving up, and I believe Hannah and her family know how much you care.

RIP beautiful Hannah, so many have grown to love you.
May your family be surrounded by love and find strength that you will be re-united in heaven.

JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

The yellow boxes represent buildings. 3760 is the building on the property that I believe is the farm with a dry creek bed behind the property.

Thank you Otto. But why would a separate "farm" be part and parcel of a public park? I don't think I'm familiar with such a situation.

 

[themom]

perfect person to spread misinfo if they were going that route.

I get the sense that Coy is very concerned with his career. Too much to jeopardize it with known misinformation.

 

[perfectingpink]

I will never understand how anyone could take the job of defending a murderer. You could not pay me enough money to help try to get a murderer set free.
What is the reason for this "calling"? I'm guessing most would say they do it for the chance to defend the innocent, or that everyone deserves representation until proven guilty...

But what do these types do once the evidence shows their client is guilty? They try to get them a lessened sentence in any way possible.
I'm usually pretty accepting as a person, but honestly, I find it to be a disgusting way to make a living.

I used to get frustrated by this very thing until I saw my cousin's trial where there was SO much evidence that his attorneys (who are specialist in death row cases) did nothing to put on a defense yet made sure their client's rights was upheld. I do believe Longo is doing everything in his power to present a case such as I mentioned and that JM's attorney will only be needed to ensure rights are in order. JMO that I hope holds true for Hannah, Morgan and any other girl he hurt.

 

[VA Investigator]

Here.

This is where the action is. It is the first left after turning onto Walnut Creek Park Road.

One other thing to consider is that there would be a lot of people in and out of that park. Fishing, riding the bike trails etc. etc. Seems less likely a body would have been there for 5 weeks undiscovered all this time VS. the 3193 location which looks to be abandoned and remote. ?

 

[Calico66]

Here.

This is where the action is. It is the first left after turning onto Walnut Creek Park Road.

Here.

This is where the action is. It is the first left after turning onto Walnut Creek Park Road.

Thanks for the visual, Otto. That helps! Is this four miles from Walnut Creek Park?

In one of the original NBC articles linked in the media thread, which was hours before the 3193 address was mentioned, it states that Hannah's remains were found four miles from Walnut Creek Park.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/remains-found-search-missing-uva-student-hannah-graham-n228901

NBC could totally have had it wrong, but why would one of the first reports say her remains were about four miles away from the park? 3193 is about four miles away. The address of the driveway in that photo is significantly closer than four miles away from the park. IMO!

 

[themom]

I sometimes find myself feeling the same way. I am constantly having to remind myself that our current justice system is dependent upon people such as he, giving their most vigorous defense to the people I consider to be the scum of the earth. It is our system. If we have faith in it's ability to work properly we need those defense attorneys, distasteful as that is, and we need them giving it their all, not just phoning in their defense. Because when all is said and done, I want convictions to stick. Give me a vigilant defense attorney any day of the week on any case I follow. I could never do it, I am like you, I could not live with it but I am thankful every day that others can. Because lady justice requires it.

Thank you for this reply. Great insight. And perspective.

 

[margarita25]

One can bet the UK Daily Mail will have all kinds of photos of the relevant crime scenes/locations as soon as they are possibly able. They usually lead the way in this regard, having the closest, best and most photos, often better than local media, as seen in their photographic coverage of cases like the Boston Marathon and Abigail Hernandez. jmo

eta: Notice I say "photographic" coverage, not relating to textual content necessarily.

 

[otto]

Otto has said the area HE believes the remains were found at is a "farm" located IN Walnut Creek Park that is owned by the County Finance Office. The address OF Walnut Creek Park is 4250 Walnut Creek Road and of course it probably IS owned by the County. How can a particular area of the park be considered a separate farm (as per Otto?). What am I missing here?

That is not true. That is not an address that I have referenced at any time. Clearly the photos with the house number must have accidentally overlooked for anyone to come up with an entirely different property that the one I've posted photos of all day long.

I'm referring to the property that is next to the park. That property belongs to the Board of Supervisors c/o Finance Admin. The address is, per the number on the house, 3760 Walnut Creek Road.

 

[IMO]

I will never understand how anyone could take the job of defending a murderer. You could not pay me enough money to help try to get a murderer set free.
What is the reason for this "calling"? I'm guessing most would say they do it for the chance to defend the innocent, or that everyone deserves representation until proven guilty...

But what do these types do once the evidence shows their client is guilty? They try to get them a lessened sentence in any way possible.
I'm usually pretty accepting as a person, but honestly, I find it to be a disgusting way to make a living.

Although I think I would personally have a tough time being a defense attorney (the biggest challenge being that I am not an attorney of any variety), I don't agree that it is a "disgusting" way to make a living. I think you have explained why people tend to do it. They have a strong belief in the constitution and the rights of human beings; though of course there are probably those who have less noble reasons. I am sure that many folks here have traveled to countries where such protections are not in place, or at least read about them. In my opinion, it's a far worse situation, and I think that despite its flaws, our legal system is still among the best in the world. MOO, of course. That includes defense attorneys, who seem to admit pretty often that they are repulsed by many of their clients but have a duty to do their job nonetheless.

There are also a fair number of people in this country who oppose the death penalty. A criminal defense attorney may take on this job with the goal of preventing it from being applied to any of his/her clients.

With that said, yesterday I was thinking Grahams. I think that their torture has only just begun. I don't know them personally but it does seem like JM's trial, if in fact there is one, and everything leading up to it, is going to be horrific for them. It seems like very often the wheels of justice tend to turn much too slowly for victims' families. I don't know much about how fast cases move in the UK but I hope the Grahams have a lot of support as this winds through our system.

 

[TheBunk]

Does the photo of all the police activity line up with the address that was posted on the scanner thread?

I'm honestly not sure what your point is.

When was this photograph taken? It's not surprising to me if the search for evidence has widened the crime scene/search area. It wouldn't surprise me to see LE lined up anywhere along that road from late yesterday through today and the next few days. I'm not sure how that proves the previous address was incorrect. I'm not saying you're wrong, just I'm not sure if it proves anything contrary to what has been stated elsewhere.

 

[Phoebeb]

Wonder if JLM ever applied to work there?

One of the local reporters answered a q from me and said none of the neighbors remember the assisted living home ever opening. Strange.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I agree daily mail isn't always accurate, but I also agree with those that said for cases like this, they tend to have good information and more than US sources.

I agree that we shoud wait for other sources who will confirm the body is indeed Hannah, but I also agree it is likely her anyway.

Would this make daily mail the first to say the body is confirmed to be Hannah?

 

[dda]

Camblos hasn't professed his innocence because he likely has not see much evidence. That was reported September 30th. The prosecution can keep evidence sealed indefinitely.

I think it would be irresponsible to declare him anything right now, but I am no lawyer too!

Respectfully, that is not accurate. The prosecution will need to disclose evidence at certain stages of the process. We do not have "trial by ambush" here Based on my experience (with the disclaimer that I gave earlier that I am a civil trial lawyer not a criminal defense lawyer but after 20 years do have some insight), I would not expect Camblos to make any public comment of a substantive nature.

 

[jbowman55]

The only thing that doesn't make sense about otto continually saying the house mentioned in the Coy Barefoot article:

We have members on here who guessed this location by hearing police being called to this location to this scene around noon yesterday over the scanner.

Why would the police have been called to a location that was 3 miles away from where the actual body was discovered?

Why would the police have been called to a crime scene for a widely-publicized, media-blitzed crime like this on an OPEN channel that can be monitored by everyone and his brother, when they have secure channels and cell phones that they could have used to keep the whole thing under wraps, at least for a little while?