Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[bestill]

Now that we know the remains are in fact, and unfortunately, Hannah Grahams, I am just hoping that a cause of death will be shared. It may come indirectly if he is further charged beyond the abduction with intent to defile but I really hope to get more information for us WS'ers to ponder in this case. In the press release shared the day it was confirmed to be Hannah it stated stated they were focused on the investigation and "preserving evidence."
Quote- Since the discovery along Old Lynchburg Road, officers and detectives have been working around the clock to process the scene and preserve evidence. Our focus is on the investigation and therefore, we will not be answering questions regarding the case or investigation.

I found this on preserving evidence - http://www.nfstc.org/pdi/Subject01/pdi_s01_m01_04.htm.

 

[SweetT]

SteveP, I don't understand it either. It will be interesting to hear from girls that have had a relationship with him. I don't know how you separate the two, a loving physical relationship with someone and also be a rapist and murderer. JM had boundary issues, evidenced by the encounters with folks in the bar the night Hannah went missing. I wonder if that night his frustration with being rejected was a trigger for him?

I don't think any of us know if jm had a loving relationship with anyone do we? Just that he had some live in gf for a while but nothing more really.. Maybe a loving relationship is something he doesn't have in him to do.

 

[ClueingForLooks]

I don't recall that it was ever really confirmed they thought Morgans abductor had anything to do with her phone not being with her. One of the thoughts, as I believe was based on statements by several members of the boys UVA basketball team, was that she had walked with them to the field asking for a ride, and had dropped her phone a couple times while walking, at one point the back fell off. So speculation was in her state of mind, she may have dropped it herself, before coming into contact with her abductor.

The basketball players... This post is the first thing I've seen about it so I've been trying to find more info. Why did they refuse to give her a ride? Was it because she needed to travel too far? It's so sad how many people turned their back on her that night - her friends (imo), arena security, these basketball players and then she came to a brutal end.

Regarding the phone, the fact that the battery was missing makes it seem more like it was dumped by the kidnapper, doesn't it?

 

[wary]

The basketball players... This post is the first thing I've seen about it so I've been trying to find more info. Why did they refuse to give her a ride? Was it because she needed to travel too far? It's so sad how many people turned their back on her that night - her friends (imo), arena security, these basketball players and then she came to a brutal end.

Regarding the phone, the fact that the battery was missing makes it seem more like it was dumped by the kidnapper, doesn't it? BBM

I was assuming that, until the previous poster mentioned her being seen dropping the phone, and the back coming off. If she had the same style of phone that I had in 2009, the back coming off was the precursor to the batteries falling out on their own.

 

[ClueingForLooks]

I was assuming that, until the previous poster mentioned her being seen dropping the phone, and the back coming off. If she had the same style of phone that I had in 2009, the back coming off was the precursor to the batteries falling out on their own.

Oh, I see. I've never had a battery fall out. But then there's the fact that Hannah's phone went dead shortly after her last text... same kidnapper (allegedly) so it's kind of too much of a coincidence, maybe. Sorry if that's been brought up already in this thread (I know it's come up a lot in previous discussions).
Cell phone switched off at 1:30am: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...appear-without-contacting-family-friends.html

 

[Elley Mae]

SteveP, I don't understand it either. It will be interesting to hear from girls that have had a relationship with him. I don't know how you separate the two, a loving physical relationship with someone and also be a rapist and murderer. JM had boundary issues, evidenced by the encounters with folks in the bar the night Hannah went missing. I wonder if that night his frustration with being rejected was a trigger for him?

One of the women, 'Molly' (not her real name) told Matthew 'don't *advertiser censored**ing touch me' when the 6'2" tall former American football player tried to touch her legs and knee.

She said: 'He kept trying to put his hands on my legs and below the knee. He'd been way too aggressive all night, putting his arm around me, picking me up, putting his hands on my legs.'

She claimed that Matthew took her friend's socks off and asked to see her toes.

Molly told Barefoot: 'Then he came over to me and tried to touch my legs. I told him no. He said, "I just want to see your feet, like her."

'I told him no. Don't touch me, do not touch me. One time he reached above my knee, and the next time below my knee. I finally told him, don’t *advertiser censored**ing touch me.'

He immediately picked us both up and held us over his shoulders,' Molly recalled. 'I don't like that at all and told him to put me down. It was very strange. He put us down, and we sort of tried to move away from where he was. But he kept coming around, putting his arm around us and stuff like that.'

Molly said she quickly grew tired of Matthew and left the bar to shake him off, but he followed and continued to down shots of Bourbon.

She said: 'I just didn't like how he was grabbing my friend and I. But he followed us. But after we got to Tempo, he walked in the door right behind us.'

......................................

At one point, I remember [LJ Matthew] was dancing around outside, and he bumped into this British lady pretty hard, just as a way of getting her attention. He was kind of grabby with her, and asked her for a cigarette. Her husband was standing right there. He was like, ‘listen, you can’t treat people like that. You can’t just bump into someone. You need to ask politely if you want something.’ Someone finally gave him a cigarette, and I think he might have sat on the curb and had a few puffs before he got up and walked away. He was alone.”

http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/

 

[otto]

I was assuming that, until the previous poster mentioned her being seen dropping the phone, and the back coming off. If she had the same style of phone that I had in 2009, the back coming off was the precursor to the batteries falling out on their own.

The phone was found, the battery was not. If the phone fell, and the battery popped out, that battery would have been found next to the phone. It seems that the battery was separated from the phone - suggesting a deliberate removal of the battery.

 

[SteveP]

Just wondering...are there any statistics that show the percentage of known serial rapists that end up killing their victims? How about the percentage of known serial killers that rape their victims before, during, or after?

 

[tlcya]

* The FBI finds that only one in four rapes are published in the Uniform Crime Reports. The Uniform Crime Reports do not include rapes that end in death, since those are reported as homicides. (Anderson, 276)

http://thehathorlegacy.com/rape-statistics/

https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0314.pdf

That makes finding statistics on how many rapes end in murder more difficult. So those numbers must be looked for as Homicides which also featured rape. Still looking for such stats.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=317

 

[kevin_405]

Now that JM has been indicted on the Fairfax 2005 rape, does anyone here with a legal background know if a conviction could be brought up during trial in a future court case? I would think it would be difficult to convict JM in Morgan Harrington's murder unless evidence could be presented linking him to the Fairfax rape case. Convicting him in Hannah's case should be less difficult since he is caught on video with her and eyewitnesses saw him leaving with a severely impaired Hannah.

It would be prejudicial evidence. Unless there is some link between the two victims I doubt evidence in either case can be brought up.
Video is circumstantial, to convict of murder the DA will need to show more evidence

 

[tlcya]

Unless certain features of the crimes could be tied to one another as a specific pattern or MO, the judge will likely rule that a conviction of the Fairfax rape was far too prejudicial to be allowed into any prosecution for the crimes against Hannah or Morgan if he ends up charged in that case as well. JMO

 

[Meemaw12]

Seems to me, chain of custody of DNA in both Fairfax and MH will be brought of in both cases. No way around it IMO.

 

[TriniEsq]

It would be prejudicial evidence. Unless there is some link between the two victims I doubt evidence in either case can be brought up.
Video is circumstantial, to convict of murder the DA will need to show more evidence

His prior bad acts can be proffered as evidence if it goes to prove modus operandi or a material fact in the case. It cannot be offered to show the propensity to commit a crime. The rules of evidence in a criminal case are crucial and will dictate what evidence is allowed. The prosecutor will seek to include it to show JLM's modus operandi (or some other material facts) and the defense will seek to exclude it as highly prejudicial. Most of this is done before the case goes to trial through written motions that are decided by the judge.

 

[GhostGhost]

,
He's got a thing for feet.

There's no doubt this touching was sexual to JM. I think he chose a spot 10 miles away, because he was sexually excited. And 10 miles the way he drives isn't far.

MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Depending upon whether or not both sources of DNA are sexual in nature. In the rape/attempted murder case, LE had witness statements to know she was raped regardless, but if DNA came from sweat, for example, in Morgan's case, it might be more difficult to charge rape in her case. Will have to wait and see, jmo.

 

[themom]

Yeah, I know...that post of mine was probably stupid. I agree that rape is all about power and control. Maybe I assumed that he feels willing partners will give him that, and maybe some did. I guess I just can't get my head into the mindset of a rapist and killer...but for that, I am also grateful.

I know what you mean! Half the time, I'm glad I can't understand the mindset, and the other half of the time, I SO wish we could!!! [emoji52]

 

[themom]

Sorry if this has been discussed already. I've been off the board for a few hours.
Can they collect evidence of rape from a skeletonized body? It seems absurd to even ask, but I'm hoping it is possible...

 

[4 Free Speech]

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...may-have-led-to-hannah-grahams-body/17791605/

It took LE 18 days to investigate this tip.

 

[curiousshay]

JM could be demonstrating frotteurism..."Frotteurism is a disorder in which a person derives sexual pleasure or gratification from rubbing, especially the genitals, against another person, usually in a crowd. The person being rubbed is a victim. Frotteurism is a paraphilia, a disorder that is characterized by recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving objects, the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner (not merely simulated), or children or other nonconsenting persons."

Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Frotteurism.html#ixzz3HIGJIpBw

 

[ThinkHard]

Bringing post forward. My question: When was Hannah actually killed? When was she placed at Old Lynchburg Rd property? How do we know? Have any friends/family/coworkers made statements as to JM's activities on the evenings between 9-13 and 9-19?

Note: I've edited this to add the seizure of van taxi on or about 9-27, among other things.

Timeline, to the best of my recollection. Is this useful?

Sat 9-13 1:06 am Hannah caught on video from Sal's on Downtown Mall; convergence of Hannah, WG, and JM; Hannah walking "with purpose"

Sat 9-13 1:20 am "Lost at 14th and Wertland" text to Hannah's friends, Hannah's iPhone goes dead

Sat 9-13 1:45 am Hannah last seen alive (according to what we know now) at Tempo with JM; Hannah obviously impaired and unsteady on her feet

Sat 9-13 JM misses morning football meeting at The Covenant School

week of 9-13 to 9-19 Coworkers at UVa Medical Center observe that JM is morose and solitary

Fri 9-19 (late evening) CPD executes a search warrant on JM's car and impounds the car, finds evidence, gets additional search warrants

Fri 9-19 to Sat 9-20 (midnight to early morning) CPD executes search warrants on JM's apartment and cell phone, seize phone and several bags of evidence, news reports show officers carrying out bags of evidence during daylight hours

Sat 9-20 (approx but likely date) JM receives advice from a lawyer friend (I have not found a source for this)

Sat 9-20 (approx 3:30 pm) JM appears at CPD asking for an attorney, is accompanied by mother and uncle, has a list of attorneys already prepared, speaks with Camblos, leaves CPD without speaking to police, realizes he is still being followed by VSP, drives recklessly and VSP has to let him get away

Sat 9-20 CPD files two reckless driving charges

Sat 9-20 JM changes Facebook profile picture to black

Sat 9-20 (evening) or 9-21 JM leaves Virginia on his way to Texas (note approx drive time C'ville to Gilchrist is 19.5 hrs)

Mon 9-22 (afternoon) LE releases "Wanted" poster for JM, who is presumed in light blue 1997 Nissan Sentra VAC4575

Mon 9-22 CPD searches JM's apartment for a second time and leaves with additional evidence items

Mon 9-22 to 10-2 Someone moves remaining possessions out of Hessian Hills apt ***Who did this and where are JM's possessions now?***

Tue 9-23 CPD expects to receive lab results from items acquired in 9-19/9-20 searches

Tue 9-23 CPD files charges of Abduction with Intent to Defile

Tue 9-23 JM calls family member from Louisiana using a borrowed cell phone; inadvertently provides LE with his current location via wiretap on family member's phone

Wed 9-24 JM is spotted by "Karen" on a beach in Gilchrist, TX and is arrested about 3:30 pm

Thu 9-25 JM appears before a Galveston Co judge via video link, waives right to extradition hearing, is charged with being a Fugitive from justice and with giving false information to a police officer; judge orders JM held without bond on fugitive charge

Fri 9-26 JM is returned to Virginia by FBI agents, to the custody of CPD

Sat 9-27 (approximate date) LE seizes JM's van taxi from farm in Albemarle Co

Mon 9-29 VSP announces a forensic link between JM and the death of Morgan Harrington

Tue 9-30 OL Rd area resident observes buzzards on roof and in trees at OL Rd property

Wed 10-1 Michael Hallahan requests that Nelson Co CA order JM's DNA compared to unidentified DNA in the Alexis Murphy case

Thu 10-2 New tenant moves into apartment in Hessian Hills, later states that only a few items were left behind by previous tenants

Thu 10-2 Nelson Co CA consents to additional DNA testing in Alexis Murphy case "to dispel speculation"

Mon 10-6 Second OL Rd area resident observes buzzards at OL Rd property

Fri 10-17 VDEM requests volunteers for "Hike for Hannah" on Sun 10-19

Fri 10-17 Memorial service at Copeley Rd Bridge to honor 5th anniversary of Morgan Harrington's disappearance

Sat 10-18 Remains found off Old Lynchburg Rd in North Garden, VA

Sat 10-18 Albemarle Co Police close Old Lynchburg Rd between Red Hill Rd and Plank Rd, which includes Walnut Creek Park

Sat 10-18 "Hike for Hannah" (public volunteer search of Walnut Creek Park) cancelled

Mon 10-20 JM is charged with attempted capital murder, abduction with intent to defile, and sexual assault in Fairfax City

Thu 10-23 Fairfax City judge issues bench warrant for JM to appear for arraignment on Fairfax charges

Fri 10-24 Albemarle Co Police announce that remains are identified as Hannah Graham

Fri 10-24 Old Lynchburg Rd. is reopened to traffic

I was looking at this time line, specifically, the dates in which they first got results back from their search, it first says "lab results" expected on 9/23, the charges are filed. Then on on 9/23 charges of abduction with intent to defile...I understand that perhaps the grounds for abduction, in part comes with the "last person to be seen with her", but I would think for abduction they would need some proof of "against her will". Later when they announce the MH connection they say "forensic link". I guess I'm dissecting police verbage....

So my thought is when they are referring to "forensic link" they are referring to DNA somehow connecting him to the case. And I know we are all thinking his DNA. But that announcement also came 2 days after the cab is seized. So perhaps Morgans DNA is in that cab, and that is the "forensic link" and perhaps his DNA is on her pantera t-shirt, which matches perfectly the DNA in the Fairfax case. So while they can prove he was likely in contact with her, they do not have enough evidence to prove he abducted, or murdered her...which is why we have yet to see official charges.

I think we were all thinking the MH link was to his apartment...but perhaps it was the cab.

Which bring me back to the wording on the charges in HG, they do not say "forensic link" they say based on "lab reports" which makes me think they do do, or at least did not, at that point have or use DNA evidence to file those charges. So what other evidence could it be....the eye witnesses and cameras we know....but perhaps lab results that reveal drugs in his possession? Something of hers? Having more video of them actually getting in the car? Perhaps evidence that shows how incapacitated she was...?
I don't know?

Any thoughts? Perhaps from those more familiar with exactly what "lab results" would help in filing "abduction" and "defile" charges? Defile just sounds like you'd have to have pretty specific evidence.

Also do we know for sure that LE does not have HG phone? I know they have never said that they have it, but have they said they don't? Could it have been in his apt? Or car...with his fingerprints where they key pad is? Confirmed by a lab?