Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

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Please refer to my Post #1038 on Page 42 of this thread and please read the four different articles if you're interested.

ILOKAL, once an article/interview is aired and the Associated Press picks it up it is shared all over the US & beyond.. Many times each msm article will have variations and discrepancies, imo..

Example;
http://augustafreepress.com/can-missed-tip-landscaper-hamper-hannah-graham-case/ <Augusta, GA>

Can missed tip from landscaper hamper Hannah Graham case?

Published Friday, Oct. 24, 2014, 10:39 am
Filed under Trending
 
I honestly mean no offense, but why is the buzzard tip so important? Is it to do with fast decomposition rate and how that impacts getting toxicology reports or rape kit results?

Buzzards circle and feed on dead bodies of animals and humans.
 
My question would be, "with at least two credible tips reporting scavenger/buzzard activity at the vacant property, why wasn't the tips followed up on"?

I'm going to defend LE/SAR here. They had over 4000 tips. They had over 670 different search operations in five weeks. They followed up. Unfortunately, in this case, not quickly enough. Some of the others (including other buzzard sightings, foul smells, clothing found) were followed up earlier in the search process, though no telling when those tips came in. They simply didn't have enough people to hit every tip the moment it came in.

Too, being three weeks out, would any of us actually have thought a buzzard sighting would be relevant? Perhaps those in SAR/with buzzard knowledge, but I certainly wouldn't have relied on buzzards beyond the first week with my limited knowledge.
 
IMO Hannah left willingly with LJM because she didn't appear to be resisting him just being controlled by him. He may have offered her a ride and then restrained her in the back seat with plastic tie wraps. His car appears to have the front passenger seat pushed forward in the photos. It is a 2-door coupe. His seat is pushed way back.

Tie wraps or duct tape or both would have set the wheels in motion for the apartment warrant. He might have told her "be quiet or else! "

After arriving to the property he could have walked her down near the creek and mortally injured her. He may prefer raping a dead or unconscious victim. Bundy is that type of pervert. I believe the rape in Fairfax was thwarted before he completed his horrid deed.

If he raped unconscious or dead women he could easily break many bones.

This is so awful to think about.
 
Especially when they were asking for just this sort of thing.

I remember thinking it was odd? That immediately they asked land owners of large parcels to search their land and realtors of empty properties to search them. That was spot-on. Almost an immediate MH reference.
 
What if the interior door handle was missing on the passenger side. Once she was inside the car, she couldn't leave.
True yet that car looked pretty busted up in general, he'd have a valid excuse for that being broken too. I'd think they'd need more. But I like the thought.
 
IMO, JM had no reason to change his methods or tactics if he had managed thus far to get away with possibly 2+ murders. In her condition, when they left Tempo, drunken, or drugged, I am assuming he told her he would take her back to her residence. He may have mentioned he had to make a stop before hand, but it is possible she put her head back and passed out once in the car. I don't feel she would have been alert enough to tell him he missed a turn or question how long it was taking. I also think he may have followed suit and had a couple of clothing items in his car. Bra, shirt, underwear, once HG's DNA was confirmed, it would seem any of those items would substantiate the "intent to defile"
 
I remember thinking it was odd? That immediately they asked land owners of large parcels to search their land and realtors of empty properties to search them. That was spot-on. Almost an immediate MH reference.

To be honest, anything outside of Cville is farmland and vast expanses of land. That's why I wished earlier on he'd asked people in other counties, even an hour away, to check their properties.
 
I'm going to defend LE/SAR here. They had over 4000 tips. They had over 670 different search operations in five weeks. They followed up. Unfortunately, in this case, not quickly enough. Some of the others (including other buzzard sightings, foul smells, clothing found) were followed up earlier in the search process, though no telling when those tips came in. They simply didn't have enough people to hit every tip the moment it came in.

Too, being three weeks out, would any of us actually have thought a buzzard sighting would be relevant? Perhaps those in SAR/with buzzard knowledge, but I certainly wouldn't have relied on buzzards beyond the first week with my limited knowledge.

<BBM for Focus>

Ksj3, it is critical to prioritize tips. The person/s receiving the tips in a serial murder investigation should be an experienced investigator. A buzzard/scavenger activity tip in or near an abandoned property should have set off red flags, reported to command, and followed up on immediately, imo.

Virtually all of the search activity for the first 30 days occurred within an 8 mile radius of where HG was last seen, when a past victim that JM was linked to; MH, was located in a rural area over 10 miles away from her abduction site..

Many folks will say hindsight, but I say pure common sense inductive reasoning, and criminal profiling 101.. What were investigators thinking?..
 
I remember thinking it was odd? That immediately they asked land owners of large parcels to search their land and realtors of empty properties to search them. That was spot-on. Almost an immediate MH reference.

Yes, IMO JM was connected via "forensic link" to Fairfax victim and then MH right after he was seen on video with HG. All they had at that point is that the perp was black, so that eliminated creepy WG, and they did not yet have JM's DNA so that is all they had to go on. They knew of Fairfax to MH case, so we got the request for landowners to check their properties right away.

My guess is he was racially profiled through Fairfax DNA info only (JM did not show true forensic link until 9/29 according to LE. Early on, LE did the background check which yielded Liberty and CNU. That started the ball rolling, I think.
 
To be honest, anything outside of Cville is farmland and vast expanses of land. That's why I wished earlier on he'd asked people in other counties, even an hour away, to check their properties.

Excuse my ignorance- is the lot where her remains were found not In The area landowners were asked to check?
 
I've been stewing on the 'was HG drugged or not' question for sometime. I'm from New Orleans and all opinions aside, people start drinking much younger here than in other areas of the country and even the state. Legality of the issue aside, by 18, going to bars and going out and having a few drinks over the course of the night on a weekend was not that big of a deal for me when i got to college and was living on my own. Sure there were bars and house parties that got busted for underage drinking- even here, but we still got away with a lot when it came to "partying." So I went to LSU which is roughly an hour away from New Orleans and many other kids from New Orleans went there as well. I could always sp I think the difference between the underage kids from NOLA be underage kids from other areas of Louisiana and the country because the NOLA kids (not all of them but many of them) were a little more seasoned. We didn't tend to get quite as drunk at any opportunity and we had made mistakes in the past or seen friends who had been impacted by decisions made when drinking and we tended to show a bit more caution. Not because we were in any way superior but because we had learned the harsh lessons now being learned by others while we were in High school. This isn't a passing of judgement on Hannahor.other similar victims Iit's simply my insight as to the issue of why she may have gotten into a vehicle with JLM. Hannah was not even 17 when she first arrived at UVA and only 18 when she was robbed of her innocence and her life. She may not have really ventured into the party world many first experience in college for a long enough period to realize that we must question the motives of strangers and sadly even acquit ancestors and friends, that we should constantly survey our surroundings, that we must not let our guard down even in moments of intoxication though admittedly that is a difficult thing to stick to when drinking at a young age. So, I am not saying she wasn't drugged and I'm not saying she was drugged but either way, she had probably not had previous experiences that led her to be suspicious of JLMs "act" of good will. She may have been on the cusp of inebriated where she had been drinking hard liquor and the beer he purchased in combination with the hard liquor she had been drinking brought on the effects of the "mixing different types of alcohol" rendering her less cautious. She probably realized it wasn't ideal but the effects of her drinking probably had her in the "this is an innocent situation" "he seems like a trustworthy guy who will get me where I need to go" kind of mindset. I found that during my early college years, I still had friends who would let their guards down and make decisions after heavy drinking that they would NEVER have fathomed themselves making when they were sober. Sometimes they lucked out and were unharmed or were stopped by another friend who had a little more of their "wits" about them, but in general, alcohol lowers people's inhibitions and it does so at a rate that increases with the more someone consumes and with the less someone has experience with consuming. So compounded with the fact HG may not have ever had a scary/"too close to home" experience in the past to inspire her to be more suspicious of everyone and everything around her, it's very plausible that she did leave willingly with JLM under the impression that he was just a friendly guy offering her a solution to the fact that she was stranded far from home (regardless of what solution he offered whether it was a ride to her apartment, to the party she last texted about or to his place for her to "sober up") and under the influence she didn't refuse his.offer. DISCLAIMER: I am in no way blaming HG and in no way excusing JM. I am simply trying to shed light on how this may have been played out based on personal experiences in the past and my feelings that sometimes enough alcohol can lead even the smartest and brightest people to believe a decision is a good one when they may never have had that belief in a less intoxicated state. It's a sick world we live in where someone so much older and larger would take advantage of an innocent (possibly.naive and rightfully so at only 18 yrs old) girl not even half his size. Especially when he would likely have been horrified had his sister suffered atrocities similar to those he committed against other young women,
 
<BBM for Focus>

Ksj3, it is critical to prioritize tips. The person/s receiving the tips in a serial murder investigation should be an experienced investigator. A buzzard/scavenger activity tip in or near an abandoned property should have set off red flags, reported to command, and followed up on immediately, imo.

Absolutely. But do you know how many buzzard tips they had? I know of several, and I know nothing more than what was reported locally and in MSM. Obviously, these two weren't among those. So how many others were there that also weren't? Buzzards are very active around here. You can't go a day without seeing them. I'd be willing to bet that 10-20% of their tips (400-800) were buzzard sightings alone. How do you prioritize buzzard sightings? Particularly if, on day 23, you're still following up with sightings from day 7, 10, 15? With 670 search tasks, I have no doubt they couldn't follow up on every buzzard sighting they were given.

The plan for the 8-mile radius strategy (according to MSM reports) was announced on October 3rd. From 9/14 until 10/3 they had been following up tips, leads, checking "reasonable" areas like Anchorage, places he'd lived, etc. Heck, we have reports from WS'ers that they were searching North Mountain over by Goshen and down close to Lexington. We know they were all up and down 29 at least to if not into Nelson County. They found his van at some point. They must have been close. They had several sealed search warrants for Nelson County.

Perhaps it's this tip that got them down to Walnut Creek. Perhaps this tip IS what found Hannah.
 
I've been stewing on the 'was HG drugged or not' question for sometime. I'm from New Orleans and all opinions aside, people start drinking much younger here than in other areas of the country and even the state. Legality of the issue aside, by 18, going to bars and going out and having a few drinks over the course of the night on a weekend was not that big of a deal for me when i got to college and was living on my own. Sure there were bars and house parties that got busted for underage drinking- even here, but we still got away with a lot when it came to "partying." So I went to LSU which is roughly an hour away from New Orleans and many other kids from New Orleans went there as well. I could always sp I think the difference between the underage kids from NOLA be underage kids from other areas of Louisiana and the country because the NOLA kids (not all of them but many of them) were a little more seasoned. We didn't tend to get quite as drunk at any opportunity and we had made mistakes in the past or seen friends who had been impacted by decisions made when drinking and we tended to show a bit more caution. Not because we were in any way superior but because we had learned the harsh lessons now being learned by others while we were in High school. This isn't a passing of judgement on Hannahor.other similar victims Iit's simply my insight as to the issue of why she may have gotten into a vehicle with JLM. Hannah was not even 17 when she first arrived at UVA and only 18 when she was robbed of her innocence and her life. She may not have really ventured into the party world many first experience in college for a long enough period to realize that we must question the motives of strangers and sadly even acquit ancestors and friends, that we should constantly survey our surroundings, that we must not let our guard down even in moments of intoxication though admittedly that is a difficult thing to stick to when drinking at a young age. So, I am not saying she wasn't drugged and I'm not saying she was drugged but either way, she had probably not had previous experiences that led her to be suspicious of JLMs "act" of good will. She may have been on the cusp of inebriated where she had been drinking hard liquor and the beer he purchased in combination with the hard liquor she had been drinking brought on the effects of the "mixing different types of alcohol" rendering her less cautious. She probably realized it wasn't ideal but the effects of her drinking probably had her in the "this is an innocent situation" "he seems like a trustworthy guy who will get me where I need to go" kind of mindset. I found that during my early college years, I still had friends who would let their guards down and make decisions after heavy drinking that they would NEVER have fathomed themselves making when they were sober. Sometimes they lucked out and were unharmed or were stopped by another friend who had a little more of their "wits" about them, but in general, alcohol lowers people's inhibitions and it does so at a rate that increases with the more someone consumes and with the less someone has experience with consuming. So compounded with the fact HG may not have ever had a scary/"too close to home" experience in the past to inspire her to be more suspicious of everyone and everything around her, it's very plausible that she did leave willingly with JLM under the impression that he was just a friendly guy offering her a solution to the fact that she was stranded far from home (regardless of what solution he offered whether it was a ride to her apartment, to the party she last texted about or to his place for her to "sober up") and under the influence she didn't refuse his.offer. DISCLAIMER: I am in no way blaming HG and in no way excusing JM. I am simply trying to shed light on how this may have been played out based on personal experiences in the past and my feelings that sometimes enough alcohol can lead even the smartest and brightest people to believe a decision is a good one when they may never have had that belief in a less intoxicated state. It's a sick world we live in where someone so much older and larger would take advantage of an innocent (possibly.naive and rightfully so at only 18 yrs old) girl not even half his size. Especially when he would likely have been horrified had his sister suffered atrocities similar to those he committed against other young women,

You are missing the part where you don't know Hannah and her background. She regularly visits family in the UK. (She came to the States as a child.) You can read her tweets about drinking responsibly with family in Europe where the drinking age is 18. Similar to what you know in New Orleans. You can also read where she studied in France this summer. I studied there too as a student, and like many others, we all had wine in cafes. There is never anything from her background that shows she doesn't understand alcohol. And she is a smart student. She's not an 18 year old freshman. Just began her sophomore year after studying for several weeks in France.

Along your same lines with alcohol consumption in NO. Colleges and universities in the States often notice children who have attended boarding school in Europe or grew up in Europe. They don't binge drink like normal American students because the drinking age is 18. Hannah wasn't your normal sheltered American student. You need to remember her UK background and yearly visits and even studying in France this past summer. She wasn't a naive coed.
 
IMO, JM had no reason to change his methods or tactics if he had managed thus far to get away with possibly 2+ murders. In her condition, when they left Tempo, drunken, or drugged, I am assuming he told her he would take her back to her residence. He may have mentioned he had to make a stop before hand, but it is possible she put her head back and passed out once in the car. I don't feel she would have been alert enough to tell him he missed a turn or question how long it was taking. I also think he may have followed suit and had a couple of clothing items in his car. Bra, shirt, underwear, once HG's DNA was confirmed, it would seem any of those items would substantiate the "intent to defile"

Do we know if her black pants were on the remains or "with" the remains? I'm posing this question because I doubt he took the time to pull her pants up if he raped her. Just doesn't seem like he would care.
 
One of the best books I've read to help young college girls prepare for the dangers in the world is the book GIFT Of FEAR by Gavin De Becker...trust it when the hair on your neck stands up, and when you get a feeling in the pit of your stomach that something isn't right. Trust your intuition known as fear...

http://www.amazon.com/Other-Surviva...D06_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414457018&sr=1-1

I completely agree. Own this book and also recently added this one to my stack: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594630836/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dangerous Instincts: How Gut Feelings Betray Us
 
Wow-were they really? I don't know why that makes it seem even more awful, but it does.

I wish I knew where that link is, but it said something to the effect of: if the ribs are broken while one is still alive, certain healing cells would be present on the ribs, even if one was only alive a short time after. If the ribs were broken after death, those cells would not be present.
 
This will help you understand. It's history here in Charlottesville.

"A black man in Charlottesville is suspected of being a serial rapist. Because of him, innocent black men also are suspect.

Wednesday, Charlottesville police temporarily suspended a dragnet asking black men for cheek-swab samples of their DNA in an effort to catch the rapist. According to news reports, the policy was halted under pressure from local black leaders who accused the police of racial profiling. On Friday, Charlottesville Police Chief Timothy J. Longo announced an improved policy that more clearly defines which black men would be asked to comply."
http://articles.dailypress.com/2004-04-18/news/0404180062_1_black-men-serial-rapist-black-man

Thank you for the article. I see how that would completely be invasive and racially profiling in many ways.

I guess what I don't see is how the Fairfax case would be racially profiled? They had DNA and she gave a description. Meaning the DNA matched after MH.
 
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