Has The Defense Changed Your Mind About ICA's Guilt?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Has the defense changed your mind about ICA's guilt?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 6.0%
  • No

    Votes: 408 56.6%
  • Waste. Huge waste.

    Votes: 270 37.4%

  • Total voters
    721
  • Poll closed .
I have NO doubt Casey killed Caylee. None. After today, I'm more convinced than ever.

If Caylee had died in the swimming pool, the child would have been respectfully and legally buried after a proper funeral. She would have never had the ride in the trunk or spent six months in the woods. Her death would have been reported to authorities and an autopsy would have proven she died by drowning.

Watching Casey's face and her continuous head shaking only convinced me she is only about Casey and had no remorse regarding Caylee, and there's no love lost. She'll sacrifice anyone to save her sorry self. Why would Casey spend three years in jail if it was an accident??? I can't see Casey put herself out for anyone. Why not just tell the truth, let them find the body sooner, and have an autopsy confirm it was an accidental drowning? No, Casey would have been screaming the truth from Day One.

Jose was all over the place. How could both George and Mr. Kronk both be involved? What Jose did to those men to benefit Casey was beyond despicable. That man should be disbarred. What kind of justice system allows such trash? If this is how our justice system works, tearing down innocent people just to get the guilty off free and clear, well, I don't think it's moral. Jose should be made to pay for what he's done to the characters and reputations of those men.

I agree. He has really crossed the line and the people of FL need to make SURE there are repercussions. Baez is a disgrace and he needs to be removed from the legal profession.
 
I'm one of only 18 at this time that said yes, the defense changed my mind today about KC's guilt.

BUT - It is because after JB's opening statement I lean more toward conviction on murder 1 than I ever did before.

I have not previously been convinced that this should have been charged as murder 1. However, the accusation that GA was there with KC when Caylee died in the pool is just so absurd to me that I can't help thinking if that was the best they could come up with then perhaps it really was murder 1 after all.
 
Re my bold above--

It didn't change my mind because I know all the facts of this case, however, when I listened to JB's opening statement as if I knew nothing about Casey or her parents, I arrived at exactly the same conclusion your mom did. :banghead: What's more, two other people happened to be here who I've told much about this case, and they had no choice but to watch Baez's opening on InSession with me. They both were quite willing to believe the accident theory/her father was a monster/poor abused girl! :banghead: :banghead:

Furthermore, although I hate to say this, I also felt that a couple of George's replies to Baez were foolishly and brazenly evasive and ended up supporting B's theory that ICA is the emotionally scarred result of the Anthonys Living a Bizarre Life of Lies and Denial. For example, there is no way in h*ll that GA didn't demand to know who the father of ICA's baby was within minutes of finding out ICA was pregnant.

There is no way in h*ll, he (or any other sane father) would be overcome with pure joy upon learning his 18 year old unmarried daughter was knocked up--in fact, so overcome with joy that he didn't think about demanding the name of the baby's father or care that he was acquiring the responsibility to support his baby.

As to trying to check up on Casey at her job, he first said his purpose in going there was to take his daughter to lunch, not check up on her. The reverse was true, and would have been justified and sensible of him.

I think the reason for the above answers is that George was so (understandably) humiliated and horrified by Baez's accusations that he (George) was intent on showing that he's an ultra-nice dad and a besotted grandfather. By doing that, he came off as being less believable or perhaps less sensible -- or less normal?

And am I the only one who wanted to cry out, "George, shut up!" when he described his joyous reaction to seeing Caylee's "pancake" on the ultra-sound which he said meant the baby was going to be a little girl??? For the love of God, he'd just been accused of sexually molesting his 8 year old daughter and now he's discussing his thrill at the sight of the female fetal sexual organs!

Before you all leap to his defense and come after me with upraised fists :truce: let me admit that I may be nitpicking poor George to death, but if I am, it's only because I'm so desperate to see the truth prevail; ICA punished severely; and the DT totally foiled. Oh, yeah--and JB and CM publicly exposed for their conniving and lies, too. That's my version of total justice for little Caylee.

Good to see you back Friday. I agree with you about GA's response on learning about his 18 yr old daughters pregnancy.I'm not so sure about him demanding the name of the father.Cindy was in control of that household not George.
 
How is the defense going to explain the phone call conversation between Kristina and Casey? This is not verbatim, but it went something like this...

Kristina - Your family is on your side.

Casey - No they're not. No one from my own family is on my side. All they care about right now is Caylee. They just want Caylee back...

IF Casey knew Caylee had died accidentally... and George had covered it up... why is it all George cared about was getting Caylee back?

I can not wait until they play that recording for the jury. I have always said that this phone call is what will give her the death penalty. This is Casey in true form.
 
My mind has not been changed at all about Casey's guilt. I don't even feel more strongly about it because I will never believe that she was not truly guilty. However, I have always thought that she would never get the death penalty. I could totally see LWOP, but I highly doubted that she would get a death sentence. Based only on today's preformance by everyone, my mind has been changed about her getting the death penalty. I think the DT OS put the needle in her arm. JB is not good enough to pull this defense off. There are too many stories to keep straight. I couldn't even follow it and I consider myself to be pretty smart. And more lies...especially the ones that were told today are only going to anger the jury. He jumped the shark.

Today just cemented my perception that DT means DEATH TEAM, not Defense Team.
 
Personally my mind has not changed, I believe KC killed Caylee, I dont know if it was an accident or not but I dont believe she drowned in the pool.
But I do have to say, as disturbing as it was, the opening statement by Baez was almost brilliant as far as defense shenanigans go. He went a little far with the Kronk stuff, but he seriously could create some doubt with the jurors and thats all he needs. My mind has not changed about her guilt, but my mind has changed about the outcome of the trial. I dont think its a slam dunk anymore. :(
 
Also, I think it's entirely possible that GA didn't ask because he a)didn't want to be lied to or b) didn't want to hear the truth- that ICA didn't know.





Good to see you back Friday. I agree with you about GA's response on learning about his 18 yr old daughters pregnancy.I'm not so sure about him demanding the name of the father.Cindy was in control of that household not George.
 
Gosh no. Their theory makes no sense:

1. Why stay in jail for almost three years for something you didn't do?
2. Why keep an accident a secret for 3 years when facing the death penalty?
3. Why would GA not naturally do CPR or call 911? If they are trying to insinuate that he didn't call 911 because he wouldn't want doctors examining the child and finding evidence of molestation, which I sort of got the sense they were implying, that doesn't explain why CPR was not used and besides, Caylee did see a pediatrician so that is a nonsensical implication.
4. Why would GA's first reaction be to scream loudly at casey but then suddenly and immediately switch to a cover up to protect her?
5. Isn't it convenient that the first inklings that casey may be alleging sex abuse occurred right after death penalty mitigation experts spent HOURS consulting with her at the jail?
6. And why was the first hint of such allegations not that GA put his penis in her mouth repeatedly, but that LA molested her nightly and she thinks, possibly, that maybe her dad did too? Trying out the theory the defense was cultivating in you casey?
7. What motivation would GA have to hide an accident? Why would he rather risk his daughter being sentenced to death?
8. If GA was this sickening molester, why did she leave Caylee with her parents all the time?
9. If GA was this sickening molester, why did casey tell him during a jail visit that none of this was his fault - he was the best dad and granddad ever?
10. Why were triple layers of duct tape placed on caylee after she accidentally drowned?
11. Why was someone conducting multiple searches for chloroform, inhalation, how to make chloroform, the ingredients used to make chloroform, death, how to make household weapons, shovels, etc., at times when GA and CA were at work?
12. Why were high levels of chloroform found in casey's trunk, the levels being so high that they prompted an computer forensics search for chloroform on casey's computers?
13. Why didn't casey expose this after she found out that her father's grand jury testimony helped indict her? Why wait almost three years?
14. Why did GA seem so scared that a body may be in casey's trunk when he picked it up at the amscot if he knew Caylee was already dead and her body discarded?
15. Why, if casey is so scared of her family that she never told the truth about what happened, despite the state asking for the death penalty, did she express rage and jealousy over their concern for Caylee and their family celebrations while she sat in jail?
16. Why was Tony Lazzaro, the first boyfriend she had who refused to have Caylee in his bed, at his house at night and the first to express that he did not want kids but if he did, he would only want a boy, the only person casey really wanted to speak to when she was arrested?
17. Why would ever diligent CA suddenly forget to do something she always remembered to do to keep Caylee safe, and leave the pool ladder down?
18. Why would casey insist repeatedly that Caylee did not have an accident, when pressed by investigators who stated the only other alternative was that she was coldhearted monster?
19. Why did GA try to angrily confront casey about Caylee's whereabouts when she was released on bail if he knew she died in an accident?
20. Why would GA try to cover up an accident only to make statements to LE and in the grand jury that ultimately implicated her in the murder of her child and that led to GJ indictment?
21. Why the heck would Kronk keep and hide an unrelated, dead child's body for several months, especially when he had nothing to do with her death? Remember, if he was found in possession of that body, he would be the one on trial for murder right now.
22. Why has casey really never shed a tear until today, for her dead baby, who she loved ever so much and who she doted on? Why, if she loved her child so much, did she exhibit such callous indifference about the death of her baby?

:rocker: Terrific post! I'm making a copy of it to see how many of these same arguments are made by the SA.
 
Prosecution's opening rocked....as I heard the day by day break down I kept thinking...this is practically identical to some of BondJamesBond's posts, lol.....really liked the way LDB showed the lies and then phrased it so well, basically saying when the police showed up, the stakes got higher and her lies got bigger because when the stakes get higher that's how KC rolls...implying that now that the trial is here, the stakes are yet higher and we should expect bigger and better lies....pretty much called that one.

Then JB got up and I admit, I thought he did quite well, but I think that is the phenomenon known as the tyranny of low expectations....he didn't really have a very high bar to vault over. But I did have to admit that he was dead on about how the family dynamic is to just put on a public face....I'm okay, you're okay, nope, no drama here....lots of denial and not a lot of modeling for directly dealing with problems. That I believe. I believe that incest victims are even more prone to this type of thinking/acting....they call it "traumatic bonding" or Stockholm Syndrome, and I could see, if KC was molested, how learning to compartmentalize and hide her pain would be natural coping mechanisms she might develop. When they got into GA was there when CA died I was like "Huh?" Why go there? I don't believe it's true for a minute. It just seems illogical. The only thing I come up with is that maybe they felt they needed to have a way where the body gets disposed of without ever being in KC's trunk...and she certainly didn't just walk down the street with her. Still, stupid move from what I can see. Roy Kronk moving the body and actually keeping a dead body of a little kid for months just to make money? Ridiculous. If he wanted money that badly, I think he'd rob a bank before he'd put a murder victim who the WHOLE COUNTRY is looking for in his own house. What? I'm totally open to hearing more about the scientific evidence and listening to the experts and judging the reliability of that and whether that was contaminated, etc. Despite some of the crazier theories, I think if the trial had ended after opening statements, I'd have to say there was reasonable doubt. Even if 80% of me thought it was all total BS I admit that a drowning and then a PTSD Casey freaking out isn't likely, but it's not impossible to rule out.

So thank God for George then. I think he was credible on the whole. Yes there were things I felt he glossed over a bit, or shaded just a little, but when he talked about his feelings for Caylee I believe that was real. That was JoJo talking. I also think that I sensed conflict in him....a hostility towards what KC has done, but a clear sense that she is his child and he still loves her. Or at least mourns the child he thought he knew. I think he'll be beat up later on things like River Cruz, gambling, work history, etc. etc. But I think he'll withstand it. I realize we haven't heard from KC yet, but right now, if I had to put her up against George credibility wise, I'd say George seems more credible. That's big coming from me, because I tend to believe victim accounts are most often true. I've just never come across a victim that lies the way KC does. So no trauma and no PTSD means no reason to behave the way she behaved IMHO.

At several points today I found myself wondering what the juror who is a crisis counselor thinks of all this? Anyone know what Juror number she is?
 
Jose, darling, you misread my posts. I know I said you should argue that Caylee drowned in the pool and that Casey, because she was sexually and emotionally abused and therefore a little whacko in the head, lied and partied and generally ugly-coped and covered up the death.

But the whole POINT, Jose, of that defense, was so that you could GAIN credibility points by ADMITTING the dog evidence, the hair, the decomp, the dumping of Caylee's little body on Suburban, etc. You can't deny all that stuff too.

Seriously. You never listen to me. :banghead:

Oh my word! I laughed until my sides hurt, AZlawyer. :silly:

Now that we know where they are getting their defense theory -- we need to start a thread of ideas just for the defense -- and really go gangbusters on this to make sure -- well that the scales of justice tip the right way at the end of this.

:smiliescale: KWIM? :waitasec:

It has clearly been demonstrated that one doesn't have to be a member of the prosecution team to make sure that the prosecution team wins this case! All they need is :crazy: on the DT!
 
Baez's opening statements were so outrageous that it made him lose any credibility he had left. I don't believe anything he has to say now.
 
Baez's opening statements were so outrageous that it made him lose any credibility he had left. I don't believe anything he has to say now.
Yes, but sshhhhhhhhhh. Don't tell him. :great:
 
I also want to add that when Baez brought up the disfunctional family dynamic I wasn't surprised. Most nuclear families today are disfunctional and have " skeletons" in their closets. In all actuality the Anthony Family was probably as normal a family as our own with the usual problems families have. Baez is doing his best to sensationalize the negative family dynamic but I am not buying it.
 
I have followed true crime enough to know that ALL bad people disassociate and compartmentalize. That is how cheating spouses can come home from raunchy trysts look their betrayed partner in the eye and say," I love you" with genuine sincerity. It's how sweet 50ish bookkeepers can embezzle, juggle the books and help your wife plan your 40th birthday party, it is how Bernie Madoff could hang out with, charm and even love the people he cheated.

Abuse isn't the only reason for disassociation, some people are THAT selfish.
ITA Also, what some see as one thing...others think SOCIOPATH...IMVHO she fits that bill to a tee.

ETA: sorry for the funky quote
 
:rocker: Terrific post! I'm making a copy of it to see how many of these same arguments are made by the SA.

:seeya: Hey, girl! you have been missed!
 
I can only state where the problem lies for me in believing ICA's molestation allegations. Most, if not all, abuse survivors do everything in their power to cherish and protect their children. ICA time and time again made it clear she was extremely unhappy that her family was more concerned about Caylee. She was perfectly happy to go out and party while her abusers watched her child.

I might as well just say it... I am a survivor myself. I went so far as not to sleep when my sister would come visit for the weekends so I could be certain she wasn't being harmed. My abuser will never.. ever be alone with my children. NEVER. I protected my sister as a teenager. My resolve to protect my children is increased 1000 fold.

Honestly, the DT has taken a vat of spaghetti with all their OS theories hoping one of them sticks just for one juror.

I get where you are coming from, I really do and I'm so sorry for what you had to go though :hug:

Not everyone deals with abuse the same way, some people who were abused end up abusers themselves.. some end up with men who abuse their children and even stay with them after they find out about it- choosing the man over their child. Not every abuse survivor comes out of it OK, not every abuse survivor protects their children from what they went through. I know MOST survivors do end up being good parents who protect their children but that isn't always the case.

Again, I'm not saying I think Casey was molested.
 
I thought pancake meant the head and the body. I only ever see two circles on an ultrasound.

Oh, it's the head and the body! What a relief! LOL I hope the jurors know that so they don't leap to the same conclusion I did. I still wish George hadn't felt the need to add how especially excited/delighted he was to see that Casey's baby was a girl--not when he'd just been accused, minutes before, of sexually molesting his own 8 year old daughter. It was bad timing, that's all. IMO.
 

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