Has The Defense Changed Your Mind About ICA's Guilt?

[Turnadot]

my snip!


I saw that too...but I saw a different reason. I believe ICA's devastation was caused by the fact that GA did NOT fall on the sword for her. her entire defense rested on him - her only way out was to believe GA was serious on the stand that time he said I will do anything to save my daughter

and he didnt take the fall. he told the truth to save himself and for caylee.


now she has to take the stand on her own, and be shredded by the state and the jury will never, ever fall for it. had GA corroborated caylee's "drowning"....ICA might indeed have walked free. not now.

I agree. Remember during a pre-trial hearing when Baez asked GA what lengths he would go to in order to save KC? GA indicated he'd do anything at all. Anything.

My personal opinion is that Baez was testing the waters then, and based upon GA's answer, Baez believed GA would fall on his sword, so crafted his opening statement on abuse. But then GA got on the stand and refused to be labeled a child molester.

Baez's entire cross yesterday was damage control. He needed the jury to still consider that KC was sexually abused by GA. That's why he went outside the scope; he had to. I doubt the jury bought it because GA managed to be convincing. Did GA abuse KC? I doubt it, but even if he did, he was convincing enough on the stand when he said he didn't. I really don't think Baez expected GA to stand up for himself and Caylee.

 

[CementPond]

Here's something else I've been thinking about and don't know if anyone else has said this or thought it but......

I wonder if George knew and agreed to be thrown under the bus in order to possibly get Casey off/lesser charge/create reasonable doubt? I can definitely see them scheming and plotting it. I mean, he doesn't have admit or agree that he did it in order to accomplish their task. He just needs to agree to be accused of it. He probably figures many people already don't care for him, why not go through with it in order to help save his daughter. It makes sense to me. Especially now since I heard that his and Cindy's lawyer say that they are still standing by Casey.

That would also go along with the feelings I got from Casey's crying when the abuse and all that was even mentioned yesterday. That she was crying because she felt bad/guilty that they were accusing her father and brother of such things because she knows it isn't true. That would also explain his lack of reaction too possibly.

JMO and ideas of course.

 

[mydailyopinions]

LA, I seriously jerked my knee up so fast I hit it on my desk (my bad knee I might add, Thanks JB) when he said what he did about "oral sex".........I was shocked I tell you shocked.

I personally wondered how he slept last night knowing that he threw that line out there, knowing it was not true.

Too, when he got so animated about George screaming at Casey when he allegedly held Caylee's lifeless body.

Casey sat over at the defense table and cried. She was not crying because of truth, she was crying at that point because she knows her dad had to sit there and hear that crap.

Teh, I think I'll need a stress ball soon.:crazy:

 

[2goldfish]

Here`s the video. Questions of abuse etc. after 6.20 mark.

http://www.wftv.com/video/28011223/index.html

I don`t see Casey doing anything but shake her head, look away, look a little angry. Same reactions as during prosecutions opening statements when confronted with her own lies. It`s George that is in the verge of tears during those questions.

yup ITA and know what else? look at her face at about 7.20, she has the worst "oh **** what am I gonna do now?" look I have ever seen.

 

[Turnadot]

Here's something else I've been thinking about and don't know if anyone else has said this or thought it but......

I wonder if George knew and agreed to be thrown under the bus in order to possibly get Casey off/lesser charge/create reasonable doubt? I can definitely see them scheming and plotting it. I mean, he doesn't have admit or agree that he did it in order to accomplish their task. He just needs to agree to be accused of it. He probably figures many people already don't care for him, why not go through with it in order to help save his daughter. It makes sense to me. Especially now since I heard that his and Cindy's lawyer say that they are still standing by Casey.

That would also go along with the feelings I got from Casey's crying when the abuse and all that was even mentioned yesterday. That she was crying because she felt bad/guilty that they were accusing her father and brother of such things because she knows it isn't true.

JMO and ideas of course.

The defense doesn't need George's cooperation or agreement in order to accuse him. So why would they seek it?

 

[Donjeta]

Two things connect in my mind....

A) Casey nodding her head yes when the red jacket lady (sorry I forget her name) talked about the duct tape being there to cause the baby's death.

B) Baez's preposterous story about Roy Kronk moving the body and holding on to it for months. Why did he cook that up? It does not make any sense and no one's going to believe it.

But if you put A and B together it makes sense. They feel like they've got to offer some alternative explanation for the duct tape being there. If it's not the murder weapon, what is it? And they need Kronk tampering with the body because no one in the jury will believe that a distraught grieving mother will ducttape her accidentally drowned daughter.

So I feel that if there was a honest accident there would have been no duct tape and no need to bend over backwards to make it look like the body is not where Casey and/or George left it.

 

[mydailyopinions]

Here's something else I've been thinking about and don't know if anyone else has said this or thought it but......

I wonder if George knew and agreed to be thrown under the bus in order to possibly get Casey off/lesser charge/create reasonable doubt? I can definitely see them scheming and plotting it. I mean, he doesn't have admit or agree that he did it in order to accomplish their task. He just needs to agree to be accused of it. He probably figures many people already don't care for him, why not go through with it in order to help save his daughter. It makes sense to me. Especially now since I heard that his and Cindy's lawyer say that they are still standing by Casey.

That would also go along with the feelings I got from Casey's crying when the abuse and all that was even mentioned yesterday. That she was crying because she felt bad/guilty that they were accusing her father and brother of such things because she knows it isn't true. That would also explain his lack of reaction too possibly.

JMO and ideas of course.

He didn't have to agree to be accused of it.
Kathi Belich said that it was the state that told them it was going to happen.
Around the 8:00 mark
http://www.wftv.com/video/28012028/index.html

 

[CementPond]

That's true. I guess I'm just saying that I can see him knowing full well about it and being ok with it if it will help Casey and their case.

The defense doesn't need George's cooperation or agreement in order to accuse him. So why would they seek it?

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Someone else pointed this out to me. At about 17:00 on this video, when LDB was saying the purpose of the duct tape was to END Caylee's life, Casey actually NODS her head "yes". Watch closely:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28006862/index.html

Remember, usually when she moved her head, she was shaking it "no", but not here.

I feel so argumentative on this thread. Please know I don't intend to be. I didn't really see her head motion at the time stamp notation as a nod. It looked more to me like a shudder. Her shoulders come forward a bit and her entire upper torso moves along with her. It doesn't last long at all, but I don't see a nod. LDB's statement made her want to jump out of her skin. JMO though.

 

[CementPond]

I couldn't see it either.

I feel so argumentative on this thread. Please know I don't intend to be. I didn't really see her head motion at the time stamp notation as a nod. It looked more to me like a shudder. Her shoulders come forward a bit and her entire upper torso moves along with her. It doesn't last long at all, but I don't see a nod. LDB's statement made her want to jump out of her skin.

 

[NancyA]

Not at all. Leaving aside the alleged abuse, whether it happened or not (I think not for several reasons) is, IMO, largely irrelevant as it pertains to the circumstances surrounding Caylee’s death and the disposal of her body. The fact that adult Casey continued to live in the family home where she claims she had been abused as a child AND put her child at risk of the same fate by allowing her to live there too, was left cavalierly unexplained and, as has been pointed out by survivors here on this very forum, is uncharacteristic of the vast majority of abuse victims who will do their utmost to ensure the same does not happen to their children. This factor to me is the strongest indicator that it did not happen, the second is that, having detonated their sex abuse bomb, the defense singularly failed to maximize the fallout by establishing it in the minds of the jury during their questioning of GA.

As far as I can see the defense threw it in there to deflect the attention of the jury away from the weakness and implausibility of their “George was there and helped dispose of the body” scenario which IMO is so full of holes and implausibility they didn’t want anyone to look at it too closely and in that I have to admit they were successful to a certain extent - while everyone is focused on the penis in the mouth of an 8 year old Casey they are not asking any awkward questions about why former LE officer GA would leave so many loose threads lying around in his disposal of Caylee’s body AND how the heck they were gonna explain her disappearance after that? Does it really make sense that George wouldn’t have the savvy to dispose of the body in a way it would never be found? And what was his plan with regards to explaining Caylee’s disappearance? Make it look like a stranger abduction perhaps? Between them they could have done that quite easily once they had safely disposed of the evidence and concocted alibis for himself and Casey as to how Caylee was left unattended dlong enough to be snatched of course, Casey thought George was keeping an eye on her George thought Casey was , she wandered outside and was snatched by an opportunist from the yard…people might suspect and point fingers but as we have seen in other case it’s hard to disprove that kind of story. To me the whole “Casey, you go off and act like nothing happened, your mom will assume Caylee’s with you and of course we can keep that up forever….” is ludicrous. At some point they would have had to come up with an explanation for a constantly absent Caylee if only to satisfy Cindy. Why let it get to the stage whereby Cindy wouldn’t accept any more excuses and Casey was backed into a corner? I can see Casey doing that whole burying her head in the sand and ‘I’ll cross that bridge…’ thing, but George too? Nah.

 

[2goldfish]

I feel so argumentative on this thread. Please know I don't intend to be. I didn't really see her head motion at the time stamp notation as a nod. It looked more to me like a shudder. Her shoulders come forward a bit and her entire upper torso moves along with her. It doesn't last long at all, but I don't see a nod. LDB's statement made her want to jump out of her skin. JMO though.

she nods at 17.25

 

[miss plum]

They have; before today I viewed her as an emotionally disturbed (which mitigates nothing IMO) person but now I believe she is plain evil. Before today I hoped she would get LWOP but now I don't care if she gets the DP. And the DT also got me thinking about the pathetic entertainments, the shrieks and the gropes and the lame photos and the dumb partying poor Caylee's life was exchanged for...that is the huge waste in this case...that Caylee died so an unimaginative bore could run around town being banal for 31 stupid, ugly days.
I'm not at all anxious that the jury, who haven't followed this case, might fall for these yarns. They will be hearing evidence for weeks, and it's the same evidence that lead to us all rejecting alternative theories about who did it, or whether it was an accident, etc.

 

[Turnadot]

That's true. I guess I'm just saying that I can see him knowing full well about it and being ok with it if it will help Casey and their case.

It was the State who informed George though; not the defense. And it's my opinion that George is clearly not OK with it, because when asked directly, he didn't equivocate, which would have helped KC.

 

[Sparky]

According to one lawyer in the other thread, asl ong as Casry told him she was sexually abused, then Beaz did not violate anything in that regard.

That didn't bother me at all. He is an embarrassment to the legal community. He was not prepared and was all over the courtroom with his theories. I have watched him for 3 yrs now and after his opening statement yesterday I think he just needs to retire his law license. KC is entitled to a competent atty and he's not it.

I felt like I was watching an audition for Perry Mason.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Voted NO...I now believe she intentionally murdered Caylee and once again, is not taking resposnbility for her actions but placing blame on another innocent person...I do believe Baez just signed her death warrant with this tall tale of desperation...for it doesn't match the evidence and a gaping hole from the point of drowned in the pool to Caylee's final resting spot at Suburban...I do hope those jurors use common sense...for if it doesnt' make sense, it's not true...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Peepers]

When I think about it, the defense has done the A's a favor really. Now they have no choice but to face the cold hard truth..their daughter is a nasty murdering liar that will turn on anyone to save herself. Its a devastating pill to swallow, but now there's no question anymore. Im sure it clears some things up for the A's.

 

[Evan's Mom]

Here's something else I've been thinking about and don't know if anyone else has said this or thought it but......

I wonder if George knew and agreed to be thrown under the bus in order to possibly get Casey off/lesser charge/create reasonable doubt? I can definitely see them scheming and plotting it. I mean, he doesn't have admit or agree that he did it in order to accomplish their task. He just needs to agree to be accused of it. He probably figures many people already don't care for him, why not go through with it in order to help save his daughter. It makes sense to me. Especially now since I heard that his and Cindy's lawyer say that they are still standing by Casey.

That would also go along with the feelings I got from Casey's crying when the abuse and all that was even mentioned yesterday. That she was crying because she felt bad/guilty that they were accusing her father and brother of such things because she knows it isn't true. That would also explain his lack of reaction too possibly.

JMO and ideas of course.

I was getting ready to type this same exact thing!

 

[joeskidbeck]

Although I am hesitant to believe anything casey says, there are some things that make more sense if she was abused. George's letter to her in jail when he writes "hello beautiful, I really need to see you. I need US" Very strange thing to say to your daughter, and also the jail visit where Cindy tells her she is forgiven for anything she may have said about them. Casey says, don't worry, I haven't said anything. These odd moments seem less bizarre when you consider the abuse scenario. I don't know if this case is ever going to make sense, it just gets weirder everyday.

I agree with you. I believe there is so much more to this story and ICA's lies are going to make it very hard for anyone to believe the truth IF it actually does come out. I also think GA would have hid the truth from CA IF he knew the truth.

 

[CathyR]

Hi, Casey. Lawyers aren't obliged to follow the story that the defendant tells them. In fact, in this case, Baez isn't: He's asserting that she has lied most of the time about most things. In fact, the best supposed "evidence" that her father sexually abused her is that she is so radically dysfunctional.

We don't know who or how the drowning story was constructed; it might have been spawned by the story about the missing pool ladder.

If Casey feared her parents' judgment more than anything else, she would have confessed after her first lies were exposed.

It is doubtful that the Kronk story is based on "forensics." It is more likely that it is based on the fact that the corpse was not seen in earlier walk-throughs. "Forensics" won't explain why a person unconnected to the people involved found a corpse and then, for some reason, felt obliged to move it.

What makes you think she would have confessed when her first lies were uncovered. She didn't lose her fear she just continued to lie and lie some more. I would say she is pathological in her desire to lie. Why hide it from her parents and everyone else if it was an accident? She is trying to avoid any punishment or judgment from her family. She obviously wasn't watching Caylee so she is guilty of neglect.

How many times did Kronk report this body? Why did Kronk not hang around and wait for investigators to show up so he could show them what he found? Why does he report seeing something shiny like a skull when reporting the body? The body was completely wrapped in garbage bags so no skull could be seen until the body was unwrapped. If you can't get the sheriff or police to respond why not call any one of the numerous TV stations or other visiting journalist they would have been out there PDQ ready to report the body found ( with their assistance of course) and slam the investigators for not responding. I think Kronk wanted the reward money but had to distance himself from the body find. How could anyone tell what is inside the garbage bags without opening them. From what I've read this area is a dumping ground for garbage. Not a legal landfill but an area where people just dump illegally. How many bags of garbage where already there and how does he tell what is inside them without opening them. One more thing- the swampy area was only swampy for 10-15 days and a body submerged for that amount of time will show it. Decomp happens differently in water than it does on dry land. This is the forensics I'm waiting to hear. Kronk is a weird cat IMO. The Anthony family is not the picture perfect family either.