Has The Defense Changed Your Mind About ICA's Guilt?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Has the defense changed your mind about ICA's guilt?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 6.0%
  • No

    Votes: 408 56.6%
  • Waste. Huge waste.

    Votes: 270 37.4%

  • Total voters
    721
  • Poll closed .
Baez certainly did not change my mind. I have always thought she was guilty and listening to her attorney get up there and try and discredit others, with no proof, makes me hope she gets the DP even more.

I felt bad for George and am so glad he stuck to the truth and didn't lie for Casey.
 
I've said it 4 times now and will say it again....

Child Abuse accusations didn't work in the Menendez trial and its not going to work in this one, judging by how it went today.
 
I may be in the minority here, but I really felt like the defenses' opening statement was very strong. I was trying to listen to it as an impartial person as much as possible, and found that the way he laid things out was very believable. Remember, the jury is not privy to all the information that we have read day in and day out here on Websleuths.

But, I thought Jose's questioning of George was a total failure. He didn't question him about anything that he brought up in his opening statements. After the prosecution askind George flat out if he was involved or not, and about the sexual abuse claims, it seems that Jose just deflated. He lost all his energy and seemed totally unprepared for the witness.

I will agree and say Baez started off strong..but he IMO was all over the place during the last half of his opening statement

I also agree..Baez's questioning of George was a complete failure.
The part where Baez described how Casey found George holding a dead Caylee by the pool and then screamed at her IMO sounded made up and did not come across as the truth..IMO it was pitiful.
 
I am concerned that the jury may have some doubt now. I do believe the SA will resolve that for them during the course of witness exam.

What I do find horrifically absurd, is the idea that ICA was so 'traumatized by abuse' that she allowed her abuser to get her daughter up in the mornings, feed her breakfast, babysit while ICA was 'working' and attended her in the delivery room.

No friggin way - my EX FIL was accused of sexual misconduct by a niece, and I found out about it after our marriage and my daughter was born. There was never a single second my baby was alone with that man. I was within an arms reach of her whenever he showed up. My divorce papers and custody papers stipulated NO CONTACT with that man at all without MY PARENTAL OVERSIGHT. No way in this world ICA would let that baby be alone with her abuser.........it is a farce.
 
Absolutely not.. I now feel that she is capable of cold blooded murder..even more then before.

It just sounded like a mis-matched, disjointed, disgusting bunch of accusations.. everyone is possibly guilty of something ... except for casey that is. If he had kept it simple and just raised some doubt .. then maybe
Not only is everyone guilty but her, she's the one who gave cpr trying to save Caylee's life. I'd like to snatch that halo off her head...
 
Baez has re-affirmed by opinion..Casey and ONLY Casey is responsible..She is GUILTY.
:twocents:
 
Yes, prior to today, I though little Caylee's death was probably accidental, albeit also quite possibly negligent. After today and what that vile witch did to her father, her own father, I'm convinced that she's capable of anything, including premeditated first degree murder. I now am reasonably convinced she killed her own child on purpose!
 
I have not been following this case in detail as so many of you here have done for years.

My reaction today was actually twofold. I thought Baez was compelling, even brilliant in places...and I found the story very credible...I was moving right in the direction he wanted...

until...he had to double down on Kronk in order to absolve Casey of anything and everything. That's when he lost me.

And because he lost me...I started to review the first part of his opening statement...about George, about "the accident." You mean Casey never asked what her Dad did with her dead baby? Sat in jail all this time to protect the man who molested her? Kronk wanted money but let the remains lay around for months when someone else might have found his "lottery ticket" and then he'd have nothing?

And George, the ex-detective..puts his dead grandchild right down the street..when he had all the time in the world to put her in the ocean or anywhere in a day's drive?

One last opinion...Baez is a great story-teller but he can't cross-examine his way out of a paper bag. It's embarrassing to watch that he doesn't even know how to phrase the questions.

Hi, StMarysmead, I think that you make some good points. I agree that Baez's construct is weak at the seams. But he had a central problem: If this was an accidental death of a beloved child, why would dispose of the toddler in plastic trash bags?
 
I voted "no," but actually I am now more convinced that it was premeditated murder. I could have almost bought an accident with cover-up explanation prior to hearing the DT's ridiculous stories today.
 
Hi, StMarysmead, I think that you make some good points. I agree that Baez's construct is weak at the seams. But he had a central problem: If this was an accidental death of a beloved child, why would dispose of the toddler in plastic trash bags?

or with duct tape around the head & over the mouth?
 
I am concerned that the jury may have some doubt now. I do believe the SA will resolve that for them during the course of witness exam.

What I do find horrifically absurd, is the idea that ICA was so 'traumatized by abuse' that she allowed her abuser to get her daughter up in the mornings, feed her breakfast, babysit while ICA was 'working' and attended her in the delivery room.

No friggin way - my EX FIL was accused of sexual misconduct by a niece, and I found out about it after our marriage and my daughter was born. There was never a single second my baby was alone with that man. I was within an arms reach of her whenever he showed up. My divorce papers and custody papers stipulated NO CONTACT with that man at all without MY PARENTAL OVERSIGHT. No way in this world ICA would let that baby be alone with her abuser.........it is a farce.
Exactly! My uncle was my perp. I wouldn't let him get within 10 feet of my baby daughter!!!
I will be one of the tiny minority that believes Jose Baez did a remarkable job in his opening statements. Indeed, the commentator for In Session could only say, "Oh my God" when it was finished, and then remarked that Baez had acted brilliantly, and turned the case on its head. I do believe that dysfunctional families of this type indeed have sexual molestation as a fact and produce Caseys. If Baez used crude imagery, it was to show the raw reality. I believe things are as he says they are.

ETA:And yes, I am one who has not read extensively on the case, so may be more of the perspective mind-set of a possible juror.
:hand:Sexual molestation may cause a victim to lie, and become promiscuous, but not to the extent Casey is and wouldn't explain the duct tape and the computer searches on Chloroform and Neck Breaking, NOPE, sorry this was premeditated by Casey and Casey alone so she didn't have to be a mother!!!
 
I have a lot of concerns when it comes to this jury, who like your mum hasn't read every piece of evidence 4 times. Maybe some of the lurkers who have joined in and know very little can chime in before they start reading more stuff :)

:seeya: Hi Lurkers :)
But, the DT didn't succeed at getting anything thrown out. The jury will see all the evidence we have. Maybe not all the unimportant minutia we've been privy to but the evidence that matters is in.
 
I have not been following this case in detail as so many of you here have done for years.

My reaction today was actually twofold. I thought Baez was compelling, even brilliant in places...and I found the story very credible...I was moving right in the direction he wanted...

until...he had to double down on Kronk in order to absolve Casey of anything and everything. That's when he lost me.

And because he lost me...I started to review the first part of his opening statement...about George, about "the accident." You mean Casey never asked what her Dad did with her dead baby? Sat in jail all this time to protect the man who molested her? Kronk wanted money but let the remains lay around for months when someone else might have found his "lottery ticket" and then he'd have nothing?

And George, the ex-detective..puts his dead grandchild right down the street..when he had all the time in the world to put her in the ocean or anywhere in a day's drive?

One last opinion...Baez is a great story-teller but he can't cross-examine his way out of a paper bag. It's embarrassing to watch that he doesn't even know how to phrase the questions.

You are so right. He actually had me too, up until the Kronk Khronicals. Then he veered off into KrazyLand. And he went downhill from there.

I agree that he went offr on those tangents because he wanted Casey to have ZERO culpability here. NONE. He wants her to walk away a free, innocent victim. And that greediness on his part cost him big time. imoo
 
LORD no! Here's the thing...to a critical person the opening statement was a joke, imo. Some people might be fooled by it, but wasn't it glaringly obvious they just conjured a story and stretched it around the facts? It's unnecessarily complex, too many coincidences, GA already took the wind from their sails as I found him to be completely sincere and believable, too many moments of "ALSO...*insert crazy coincidence here and repeat*" When he gets to the part about LE not investigating other people and bungling the case, it just goes pear shaped.
 
They haven't changed my mind one bit. I don't believe 1 word they said. I might have believed it if they said it was an accident and she was scared but not now that they drug the dad and RK into their lies.

I can't believe that everyone on HLN is giving Jose kudos. Unbelievable. I thought JB was totally unbelievable! I don't give him any kudos for that ridiculous story. What is wrong with me??? Heavens I pray the jury doesn't think like anyone on HLN. Caylee has no supporters over on that station. They don't care if ol ICA gets off.
 
I voted no.

However, after what I witnessed today from the DT, any smidgeon of doubt that I may have had regarding 1st degree murder is sooooo gone. And I'm now good to go on the DP also. Biggest load of BS I've ever heard. Really, Kronk found the body at some point in time and moved it to the woods, but doesn't know from where it was moved. Really! Jeesh.
 
Nothing the defense said in opening statement, or in his questioning, has changed my mind that Casey murdered her little girl.

I don't believe that the baby died by drowning, or that Casey would sit in jail, for years, if it had been an accident. Even if she states that she was afraid of her father, while Casey is in jail, George cannot touch her,....so where's the threat? There is none.

Casey is a sociopath. It is not a defense in the court. She hated her parents, because she could not 'use' them,..though she did a fairly good job by using her child as leverage to get what she wanted from them. However, at some point, as she premeditated the baby's death, she felt she was not important to her parents. It was apparent that they loved the child, and Casey's perception was that they would throw her out, and keep the child.....even if it meant going to court and declaring her to be an unfit parent.



NO way did that child die accidently in the pool. No way the child died by accident period. There is no legal/moral reason to not tell the police that she drowned by accident. The legal charges would have been a lot less, that what Casey is facing now. Second degree, involuntary manslaughter. If the law discovered she was negligent,...she would have gone to jail, but not for life, nor would she be facing the death penalty.

That is what bothers me the most. George would know that accidental death would not, necessarily, result in a life sentence, or the death penalty. However, he was not involved in his granddaughter's death. He did not find the baby,..he did not yell at Casey. I don't buy it.

Casey planned to kill the child,...remember the computer searches for chloroform, neck breaking??? Contrary to Biaz, you don't get blood, unless you shoot, stab, etc. None of the above means of murder would produce blood evidence.

Casey was never molested involuntarily. Not by her father, her brother, her mother,..nobody. She is a twisted, sexual deviant. The child got in the way of her party-hearty lifestyle. That' it.

Casey would never leave her baby to her parents, to raise, because she hates them both. She will use them, without guilt,...to save her own neck, and her parents, out of their form of twisted love for her,...will allow Casey to throw them under the bus. The Anthonys will let Biaz use anybody to save that murdering, over-sexed daughter of theirs.

Why,...if George found the baby, in the pool,...dead,...did he not do mouth-to-mouth? Because he was not there. Cindy knew how to do it too, but George is the scapegoat, because he attempted to kill himself. Biaz is using that to make a statement. George is feeling guilt for the murder of his granddaughter, by killing himself? NOOOO. He is and was heartbroken. What normal human being would not be devastated when (following the evidence), they realize that the daughter they love,...killed their dear, darling little grandchild???

Come on folks. Kronk had nothing to do with it. He found the skull,..period.

Remember this also, Biaz is not a death-penalty lawyer. I would love to talk to a criminal prosecutor, because imo, Biaz has been permitted (by Casey and the Anthonys), to continue representing Casey, so that by his ineptitude, she may get a retrial! Biaz won't be hurt by this. He got to get up front, close and personal with a twisted killer. He can spend the rest of his legal career talking about his experiences with her, write books,...after it all over. Plus, if that never happens,....may I ask, we all know Casey's appetites,....what were Casey and Biaz doing behind closed doors, during their jail house meetings????? Hmmmm....just wondering. Maybe she's got her hooks into him too. She does have a reputation with men,...any man,...anywhere.

The lengths these people will go to, to save the life of a child killer, is beyond belief!

I don't feel sorry for any of them. They all created the atmosphere of lies in that family. George never asked who the father of the baby was, until she was born??? George is chastised for asking anything about Casey, and her lifestyle. Cindy rules him, and he lives under her thumb. Casey knows this,...Casey knows her father loves her, and would do anything to save her life. Cindy was at work on the 16th, otherwise, Casey would be pointing the finger at her, because, imo, she hates Cindy the most. Some popularity contest huh? No thanks. They lie, they think they are clever,...they are none of that.

If George respects the law, he will not lie on the stand. Cindy,...she'd lie with her hand on a Bible,...just like Casey would.

Sorry for the rant, but so far I have heard nothing to convince me that it was an accident, or that Casey was molested, or that any of the contrivances Biaz proposed in his opening statement, actually occurred. He as an attorney took an oath to represent his client,....a 'spirited defense', whether or not he believes his client is guilty, or not! Remember that.

Casey deserves the consequences of her actions,...for once in her lying, murdering life. If not Caley,....it might have been George, Cindy, or even Lee. Or a stranger. But,...if you get in that girls way. If you cramp her lifestyle,.....my advice to you,.....RUN!!!!

:goodpost:
 
UESwifey, you really should have only given us two choices so as to not "water down" the results.

I have always suspected George of funny business. I agree with Jose's initial statement: "there must be a reason she is like this"---yes, I agree! I have always thought there was incest in that family.
After today, however, I am definitely feeling swayed the other direction! I thought George was wonderful on the witness stand and I completely believed him. I'll reserve judgement to see how Lee answers questions about molestation...but in the meantime, George's stock went up with me 1000%. I was very touched by how lovingly he spoke of Caylee..the peanut butter and spoon story was perfect. George loved Caylee, and was a good grandpa. I'm so glad I saw his testimony, he did a WONDERFUL JOB.
 
The defense has not changed my mind, however, my mom who doesn't know anything about this case listened to the defence and said I dont think she is guilty, I think the baby drowned. Because I have followed the case and know how JB is I dont buy it, but it concerns me that someone who hasn't followed it could beleive it, because the jury might buy it, all they need is one to buy it.

My mom had the exact same reaction and pretty much bought it hook,line and sinker.

GA seemed sincere to me. I really felt badly for him, for the first time.

I will try to listen with an open mind, but Casey will have to take the stand and convince me her father put the duct tape over her mouth.

How also can the computer searches and chloroform be defended. I did not buy anything that Jose said.
 

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