Has The Defense Changed Your Mind About ICA's Guilt?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Has the defense changed your mind about ICA's guilt?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 6.0%
  • No

    Votes: 408 56.6%
  • Waste. Huge waste.

    Votes: 270 37.4%

  • Total voters
    721
  • Poll closed .
Nothing the defense said in opening statement, or in his questioning, has changed my mind that Casey murdered her little girl.

I don't believe that the baby died by drowning, or that Casey would sit in jail, for years, if it had been an accident. Even if she states that she was afraid of her father, while Casey is in jail, George cannot touch her,....so where's the threat? There is none.

Casey is a sociopath. It is not a defense in the court. She hated her parents, because she could not 'use' them,..though she did a fairly good job by using her child as leverage to get what she wanted from them. However, at some point, as she premeditated the baby's death, she felt she was not important to her parents. It was apparent that they loved the child, and Casey's perception was that they would throw her out, and keep the child.....even if it meant going to court and declaring her to be an unfit parent.

NO way did that child die accidently in the pool. No way the child died by accident period. There is no legal/moral reason to not tell the police that she drowned by accident. The legal charges would have been a lot less, that what Casey is facing now. Second degree, involuntary manslaughter. If the law discovered she was negligent,...she would have gone to jail, but not for life, nor would she be facing the death penalty.

That is what bothers me the most. George would know that accidental death would not, necessarily, result in a life sentence, or the death penalty. However, he was not involved in his granddaughter's death. He did not find the baby,..he did not yell at Casey. I don't buy it.

Casey planned to kill the child,...remember the computer searches for chloroform, neck breaking??? Contrary to Biaz, you don't get blood, unless you shoot, stab, etc. None of the above means of murder would produce blood evidence.

Casey was never molested involuntarily. Not by her father, her brother, her mother,..nobody. She is a twisted, sexual deviant. The child got in the way of her party-hearty lifestyle. That' it.

Casey would never leave her baby to her parents, to raise, because she hates them both. She will use them, without guilt,...to save her own neck, and her parents, out of their form of twisted love for her,...will allow Casey to throw them under the bus. The Anthonys will let Biaz use anybody to save that murdering, over-sexed daughter of theirs.

Why,...if George found the baby, in the pool,...dead,...did he not do mouth-to-mouth? Because he was not there. Cindy knew how to do it too, but George is the scapegoat, because he attempted to kill himself. Biaz is using that to make a statement. George is feeling guilt for the murder of his granddaughter, by killing himself? NOOOO. He is and was heartbroken. What normal human being would not be devastated when (following the evidence), they realize that the daughter they love,...killed their dear, darling little grandchild???

Come on folks. Kronk had nothing to do with it. He found the skull,..period.

Remember this also, Biaz is not a death-penalty lawyer. I would love to talk to a criminal prosecutor, because imo, Biaz has been permitted (by Casey and the Anthonys), to continue representing Casey, so that by his ineptitude, she may get a retrial! Biaz won't be hurt by this. He got to get up front, close and personal with a twisted killer. He can spend the rest of his legal career talking about his experiences with her, write books,...after it all over. Plus, if that never happens,....may I ask, we all know Casey's appetites,....what were Casey and Biaz doing behind closed doors, during their jail house meetings????? Hmmmm....just wondering. Maybe she's got her hooks into him too. She does have a reputation with men,...any man,...anywhere.

The lengths these people will go to, to save the life of a child killer, is beyond belief!

I don't feel sorry for any of them. They all created the atmosphere of lies in that family. George never asked who the father of the baby was, until she was born??? George is chastised for asking anything about Casey, and her lifestyle. Cindy rules him, and he lives under her thumb. Casey knows this,...Casey knows her father loves her, and would do anything to save her life. Cindy was at work on the 16th, otherwise, Casey would be pointing the finger at her, because, imo, she hates Cindy the most. Some popularity contest huh? No thanks. They lie, they think they are clever,...they are none of that.

If George respects the law, he will not lie on the stand. Cindy,...she'd lie with her hand on a Bible,...just like Casey would.

Sorry for the rant, but so far I have heard nothing to convince me that it was an accident, or that Casey was molested, or that any of the contrivances Biaz proposed in his opening statement, actually occurred. He as an attorney took an oath to represent his client,....a 'spirited defense', whether or not he believes his client is guilty, or not! Remember that.

Casey deserves the consequences of her actions,...for once in her lying, murdering life. If not Caley,....it might have been George, Cindy, or even Lee. Or a stranger. But,...if you get in that girls way. If you cramp her lifestyle,.....my advice to you,.....RUN!!!!

Vera :clap:

The thank you button was not enough. I am still of the opinion that Casey is guilty of killing Caylee but you can add in all the stuff from the post I just quoted.

:yes: all that stuff is what I now think. I wonder what Cindy will say? Will she go along with this? Part of me thinks yes, because she and George showed up together and I get the feeling they did know this was going to be said, well it was said in the media and they did not deny it. I wondered, as did others why they did not deny it when Casey's jail house letters came out.

Why they did not deny it for the sake (at least)of Lee? I was not the only one to ask. I am confused by today's opening statements by Jose. What else should I expect from lies?

jmo
 
Long time lurker, first time poster here. I've been following this case since day 31, like so many of us. I've been reading posts here on Websleuths for a long time, you all have said what I've wanted to say so much more articulately than I ever could, so I am content to just read along.

The defense almost had me today. Almost. But then Baez just had to take it way too far and make his argument completely implausible by exonerating Casey of all guilt: George finding Caylee's body and carrying her in his arms, then commanding and directing innocent Casey in the disposal of the body, Kronk being the one to dispose of the body (at a later date?) so he could make money, Cindy responsible for the ladder being left out to begin with, Casey seemed to be the innocent bystander in Baez's account of how it went down.

If he merely went with the idea that it was a pool accident and Casey freaked out because of the dysfunctional family system, possible sexual abuse, and left it at that, I might have bought it, but he went waaaay too far. He would have had to explain Casey's atrocious behavior, etc but if he told the truth, it might have saved her life. Problem is, I don't think this is what really happened, but I could, in theory, buy it.

As it is now, the defense's opening statement just makes me very, very angry. I wanted to find some compassion for Casey, but I could not find any after Baez was finished. Casey accepted no responsibility for any of it at all. According to Baez, every professional in Orange County and beyond is a bumbling idiot out to get Casey and that is just insulting.

As a survivor of child sexual abuse, it was a shock to hear Baez say those words and for him to use that as an excuse to cover up the tragic death, real or fiction of a child is just insane. Child sexual abuse is tragic and wrong but it does not excuse or make you a child killer.

Watching Casey and her emotional reactions and the lack thereof again was interesting. No tears for Caylee, yet again. No tears for George's pain. Shooting daggers at LDB and George and that look of poor, poor, pitiful me as Baez was telling his tale really rubbed me the wrong way. Nothing but that cold, stony stare as LDB detailed how it took 10 days for investigators to search on their hands and knees to find Caylee's tiny little bones so they could at least give her the dignity of getting the pieces her little body out of those garbage filled woods. Casey didn't care about that, didn't bat an eye. She just glared with that cold, stony, blank glare. But she poured it on thick when Baez was speaking, had that pity me look on her face, when Baez spoke of the alleged sexual abuse. It's all about me, me, me.

I hope Cindy will be there for Caylee like George was today! I was so surprised!

Lyrasong
 
Nope. Not here either. When he first began to explain I thought, "Hm...okay, let's see what he can do here..." But yeah, he lost me within the first 3 minutes. Bouncing around, stammering. Now I think she's even more of a liar (if that's even possible). It sickens me that he took GA and Lee down as well.
 
No it actually made her look more guilty if anything, only a truly diabolical woman would condone (and help create) a defense like that......truly disgusting!
 
And yes, taking down the rest of her family members with her is the worst part of it, she could have simply said that Caylee died in the pool and she herself disposed of the body and hid the crime, but NO she decides to rope her dad in, then go and Kronk the guy who found the body at the same time!!! Like seriously are you freaking kidding me?? Off the hook, seriously.
 
I have to honestly say my heart ached for George. No way would he let his grandaughter die, then dispose of her. How dare she try to pin it on him. So very sad.

MOO

Mel
 
If it was an accident she would`ve and should`ve told that ages ago. It took this long for the DT to come up with a story that will fit some details and her lies have to be explained somehow. Obviously the body in the trunk is a problem for them cause they´ve tried to prohibit and discredit any evidence involving it. I wonder how they will fit that in to the story. Of course everything will be Georges fault. About the sexual abuse I don`t know but it`s only Caseys word and I do believe she has a habit of coming up with new lies and excuses when backed into a corner. Do I believe Casey is capable of lying about abuse, yes I do.

I have not changed my mind about her guilt but I may change my mind about the American justice system if she is able to lie her way out of this.
 
Gosh no. Their theory makes no sense:

1. Why stay in jail for almost three years for something you didn't do?
2. Why keep an accident a secret for 3 years when facing the death penalty?
3. Why would GA not naturally do CPR or call 911? If they are trying to insinuate that he didn't call 911 because he wouldn't want doctors examining the child and finding evidence of molestation, which I sort of got the sense they were implying, that doesn't explain why CPR was not used and besides, Caylee did see a pediatrician so that is a nonsensical implication.
4. Why would GA's first reaction be to scream loudly at casey but then suddenly and immediately switch to a cover up to protect her?
5. Isn't it convenient that the first inklings that casey may be alleging sex abuse occurred right after death penalty mitigation experts spent HOURS consulting with her at the jail?
6. And why was the first hint of such allegations not that GA put his penis in her mouth repeatedly, but that LA molested her nightly and she thinks, possibly, that maybe her dad did too? Trying out the theory the defense was cultivating in you casey?
7. What motivation would GA have to hide an accident? Why would he rather risk his daughter being sentenced to death?
8. If GA was this sickening molester, why did she leave Caylee with her parents all the time?
9. If GA was this sickening molester, why did casey tell him during a jail visit that none of this was his fault - he was the best dad and granddad ever?
10. Why were triple layers of duct tape placed on caylee after she accidentally drowned?
11. Why was someone conducting multiple searches for chloroform, inhalation, how to make chloroform, the ingredients used to make chloroform, death, how to make household weapons, shovels, etc., at times when GA and CA were at work?
12. Why were high levels of chloroform found in casey's trunk, the levels being so high that they prompted an computer forensics search for chloroform on casey's computers?
13. Why didn't casey expose this after she found out that her father's grand jury testimony helped indict her? Why wait almost three years?
14. Why did GA seem so scared that a body may be in casey's trunk when he picked it up at the amscot if he knew Caylee was already dead and her body discarded?
15. Why, if casey is so scared of her family that she never told the truth about what happened, despite the state asking for the death penalty, did she express rage and jealousy over their concern for Caylee and their family celebrations while she sat in jail?
16. Why was Tony Lazzaro, the first boyfriend she had who refused to have Caylee in his bed, at his house at night and the first to express that he did not want kids but if he did, he would only want a boy, the only person casey really wanted to speak to when she was arrested?
17. Why would ever diligent CA suddenly forget to do something she always remembered to do to keep Caylee safe, and leave the pool ladder down?
18. Why would casey insist repeatedly that Caylee did not have an accident, when pressed by investigators who stated the only other alternative was that she was coldhearted monster?
19. Why did GA try to angrily confront casey about Caylee's whereabouts when she was released on bail if he knew she died in an accident?
20. Why would GA try to cover up an accident only to make statements to LE and in the grand jury that ultimately implicated her in the murder of her child and that led to GJ indictment?
21. Why the heck would Kronk keep and hide an unrelated, dead child's body for several months, especially when he had nothing to do with her death? Remember, if he was found in possession of that body, he would be the one on trial for murder right now.
22. Why has casey really never shed a tear until today, for her dead baby, who she loved ever so much and who she doted on? Why, if she loved her child so much, did she such callous indifference about the death of her baby?

Good questions but if you understood the mentality of one who has been sexually abused and how they react in certain situations, how they have been raised to live a lie and put on a happy face to the everyone outside their home/family life and compartmentalize/dissociate everything bad that happens to them then I think you would be able to answer most of these questions yourself.

What shocks me the most is that so many people here on websleuths who spend so much time following true crime are unable to see that Casey Anthony has all the classic signs of a girl who has been sexually abused, in fact she is a textbook case.

Paximus, in your opinion, or to your knowledge, could there be any other equally valid reason/reasons for Casey's behaviors as listed in the first post?
 
This whole family wore 'Find Caylee' t-shirts for months and months and months. I cannot get Casey and Lee's high five out of my mind. It was all a sham. Another thing I believe is that George and Cindy knew what Baez would be alledging in his opening statement and was fine with it. They are letting Baez sacrifice them to keep Casey off of death row, IMO.

I did not believe one word out of Baez mouth other than the date little Caylee died or was murdered. There are way too many holes and unanswered questions from Baez opening statement. He is delusional. He actually created more questions than answers for me.

I have never been a fan of George, Cindy, or Lee, and have always felt they knew more than they were admitting. One thing that I was disappointed in hearing George say that made him the most sad was the accusation that he was at home when little Caylee drowned. Why? Because he should have coupled that with Caseys' accusation of molestation. BOTH of those things should have made him the most sad, IMO. I still think George helped Casey with the coverup and have stated that for more than 2 years.

However; it did take a big man to take the stand after those accusations and remain calm. His love for Caylee was obvious.

IMO, Baez is just as evil as I feel Casey to be. He did not change my mind in the least in his opening statement. I cannot imagine anyone having any respect for him after what he said George did to Casey. I almost always believe in the person making the molestation accusations, but not this time.

I am just sick and furious about where the defense is trying to take this trial. I did not think it was possible to dislike the DT any more than I already did. BUT I DO!

I hope and pray for true, real justice for Caylee Marie Anthony.
 
I think I should post something about why I'm so convinced at the possibility that KC is NOT lying about being sexually abused by GA. Actually, a lot of really good points have been made already, and I'm not going to start repeating them. This is only about my own personal observation.

I skipped around when watching this. I watched a large portion of it on IS, until that ended. When a commercial was on, I would run to my laptop to see it on WFTV.com. Then someone posted that News13 was still playing it live, and I watched the rest of it there. I don't recall which station I was watching when GA was testifying, but I recall that it was a split screen. I could see GA, with sweat glistening on his head, but his face almost completely impassive. I could also see KC.

When JB asked GA if he had ever sexually molested his daughter, he denied it. Really, would we expect him to admit to it, even under oath, even if it were TRUE? Anyway, that's beside the point. When GA stonyface denied it, something instantly broke in KC. I mean BROKE. I swear to you, and yes I'm definately prone to over-exagerations, BUT . . . I swear I watched her soul tear. In that very second . . . . I felt in my heart that it was true.

This doesn't mean she's not a killer (I'm waiting for the jury to decide that one). It doesn't mean she hasn't lied about almost everything in her life. It doesn't mean she's the worst kind of friend, or daughter or mother.

It's totally my opinion. Maybe it's wrong. Maybe I should side with the masses on this one. So many people can't be wrong, can they? I can't shake it though. I know what I saw, and how I felt.

Anyway, there you have it.

BBM. I know we are both in the minority, here... but I felt the same way you have described. I also saw that in her when JB was talking about the abuse in the opening statement.
 
If anything, I am more convinced of KC's guilt after JB's opening. I will say however, that the only thing that made sense to me about JB's OS was that it fit rather nicely with Casey's elaborate lies. Too much, too far, too outlandish. In a way, it almost felt to me like he took a page from Casey's book. Kronk? That was Twilight Zone.

And an observation. I know the jury is instructed to consider the evidence only, but people are human, after all. And it strikes me that this jury, IMO, could not have found JB very likeable. The whole thing---everyone is against Casey and out to get her: her parents, OCSO, the FBI, the SA, etc., all these nefarious people against an innocent and abused young woman whose only wrong was one of failure to call 911. Too much, JB. The way he questioned GA in such a contemptible manner (IMO, he did try to ratchet it back as the questioning moved along) can't have come across well with the jury. And so to go back to my idea that the jury won't have liked JB or this whole cockamamie pile of carp.......it matters. Juries form opinions of the attorneys. I know they do, I've served on a jury. You can't help it, you just can't. You still consider the evidence and weigh it out as you are told to do, but you still have reactions to the attorneys. IMO, I'd dislike JB already.
 
BBM. I know we are both in the minority, here... but I felt the same way you have described. I also saw that in her when JB was talking about the abuse in the opening statement.

As far as I recall, Casey didn't tell any gf she was close to in h.s. Usually, if a man in the neighborhood or your friend's dad is interested in molesting young children, then other kids will mention he was creepy or made me uncomfortable. If any gfs of Casey's make remarks like that then I might take a sip of their kool-aide. GA would not lie to save Casey's life, and she deeply felt he should lie is what I saw.
 
Someone else pointed this out to me. At about 17:00 on this video, when LDB was saying the purpose of the duct tape was to END Caylee's life, Casey actually NODS her head "yes". Watch closely:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28006862/index.html

Remember, usually when she moved her head, she was shaking it "no", but not here.
 
Someone else pointed this out to me. At about 17:00 on this video, when LDB was saying the purpose of the duct tape was to END Caylee's life, Casey actually NODS her head "yes". Watch closely:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28006862/index.html

Remember, usually when she moved her head, she was shaking it "no", but not here.

RBBM Thank You! I missed that part and appreciate you posting it. I'll check it out now.
 
When JB asked GA if he had ever sexually molested his daughter, he denied it. Really, would we expect him to admit to it, even under oath, even if it were TRUE? Anyway, that's beside the point. When GA stonyface denied it, something instantly broke in KC. I mean BROKE. I swear to you, and yes I'm definately prone to over-exagerations, BUT . . . I swear I watched her soul tear. In that very second . . . . I felt in my heart that it was true.


I watched and saw her reaction, too, but what I saw was someone who was "broken" because her father didn't take her side, didn't go along with her fake story. She probably thought he would lie for her and when he didn't, we saw her reaction.

George said, emphaticaly, no, he didn't sexually abuse Casey. No, he didn't see a dead Caylee. No, he wasn't around when Caylee died. His words, in answer to those questions, were the most honest words I believe the man has spoken throughout the past nearly three years. He didn't hesitate. He didn't cringe. He said "No". On these questions, I believe him.

It's the other questions I have trouble with and so did he. When did you know your daughter was pregnant? Did you ask who was the father? In answering, or lack of answering properly, we saw the old George who was trying to keep up the image about they family being "normal". The image they wanted to project because they didn't want us to know Casey could kill her daughter, that Casey was boss in that household, that they were afraid to stand up to Casey because Casey has a violent temper, moreso than they have. :cow:
 
Long time lurker, first time poster here. I've been following this case since day 31, like so many of us. I've been reading posts here on Websleuths for a long time, you all have said what I've wanted to say so much more articulately than I ever could, so I am content to just read along.

The defense almost had me today. Almost. But then Baez just had to take it way too far and make his argument completely implausible by exonerating Casey of all guilt: George finding Caylee's body and carrying her in his arms, then commanding and directing innocent Casey in the disposal of the body, Kronk being the one to dispose of the body (at a later date?) so he could make money, Cindy responsible for the ladder being left out to begin with, Casey seemed to be the innocent bystander in Baez's account of how it went down.

If he merely went with the idea that it was a pool accident and Casey freaked out because of the dysfunctional family system, possible sexual abuse, and left it at that, I might have bought it, but he went waaaay too far. He would have had to explain Casey's atrocious behavior, etc but if he told the truth, it might have saved her life. Problem is, I don't think this is what really happened, but I could, in theory, buy it.

As it is now, the defense's opening statement just makes me very, very angry. I wanted to find some compassion for Casey, but I could not find any after Baez was finished. Casey accepted no responsibility for any of it at all. According to Baez, every professional in Orange County and beyond is a bumbling idiot out to get Casey and that is just insulting.

As a survivor of child sexual abuse, it was a shock to hear Baez say those words and for him to use that as an excuse to cover up the tragic death, real or fiction of a child is just insane. Child sexual abuse is tragic and wrong but it does not excuse or make you a child killer.

Watching Casey and her emotional reactions and the lack thereof again was interesting. No tears for Caylee, yet again. No tears for George's pain. Shooting daggers at LDB and George and that look of poor, poor, pitiful me as Baez was telling his tale really rubbed me the wrong way. Nothing but that cold, stony stare as LDB detailed how it took 10 days for investigators to search on their hands and knees to find Caylee's tiny little bones so they could at least give her the dignity of getting the pieces her little body out of those garbage filled woods. Casey didn't care about that, didn't bat an eye. She just glared with that cold, stony, blank glare. But she poured it on thick when Baez was speaking, had that pity me look on her face, when Baez spoke of the alleged sexual abuse. It's all about me, me, me.

I hope Cindy will be there for Caylee like George was today! I was so surprised!

Lyrasong

:welcome:
 
BBM. I know we are both in the minority, here... but I felt the same way you have described. I also saw that in her when JB was talking about the abuse in the opening statement.

As a survivor, and someone who still struggles with it too - I saw that. She's either one heck of an actress, or something did happen. Please don't throw stones. Thanks.

MOO!!!!!

Mel
 
I couldn't enter the poll, because the defense certainly hit on the questions I had had, so it opened the possiblity, iow, I jumped on the fence, not over.

ETA; I noticed Cindy peering over her glasses a couple times and thought, "They are in cohorts with the defense team, and George is being thrown under the bus to save Casey."

Then when watching George's eyes during opening with JB, I thought he was worried Cindy would believe him and there would be hell to pay at home tonight. However, I decided this was unlikely, and thought he was also in cohorts with his wife and daughter.

But honestly, I don't know. I can't find any video of the last part with JB. Does anyone know where I can find it?
wftv is missing part 9 and anything after 10. grrrr
 

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