Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[Hot Dogs]

Why didn't the DT do that diatom test when they did their own autopsy with the world famous Dr. Spitz?

I guess we'll just have to shake our heads and wonder why the medical examiner didn't look for diatoms.

Two botched autopsies?

 

[gngr~snap]

AFAIK, there was no attempt to detect or collect any diatoms from Caylee's bone marrow.

But there shouldn't be any living diatoms in a sterilized swimming pool anyway.

They are in pool water and they would be different from standing water in he woods for instance...
http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2010/07/26/diatoms-on-clothing-and-corpse-location/
Diatoms are microscopic organisms that live in all types of water. They can be found in oceans, lakes, and your own bathtub or swimming pool

Now it seems that diatoms might also help locate where a crime took place in cases where the corpse has been moved and the victim’s clothing contacted water

If these can be located and identified then they can often be traced back to the source. Diatoms vary from location to location so comparing those found on the victim’s clothing with those of a certain location might be useful in placing the body at that location

 

[GeekyGirl]

Would these diatoms be present only at the actual time of drowning? I know they said the body was submerged in water for a period of time. Could these diatoms attached while the body was still decomposing? If that is possible then would the diatoms in the swampy water override any diatoms that could have been present in the pool water if it really was a drowning? And also would there be diatoms present if she swam in the pool or only if she drowned would they become present? Just curious..never heard of this and I'm a little confused. Thanks

To be found in the bone marrow I'm pretty sure it needs to be a wet drowning (meaning water gets in the lungs) and there has to be enough time for the heart to circulate the blood for a bit. Again, I'm not an expert but I don't think external conditions after death would result in diatoms being in the bone marrow. MOO

 

[Hot Dogs]

The dogs hit on several areas in the yard

The two dogs alerted fairly close to each other. From what I could see in the graphics, they were about 8 feet apart. They certainly weren't from very distant areas of the backyard. FWIW.

 

[katydid23]

I'm starting to think this is possible.

I thought diatoms were not collected from Caylee-

BADEN: Yes, the diatoms. If she drowned, then the diatoms in the bone marrow which they examined. But they examined it for toxicology not these one-sell plans, can tell which body of water, pool, lake, and a bathtub that she may have drowned in, if she had drowned.

VAN SUSTEREN: One thing the viewers should know, and this is probably the dirty secret about trying cases, the gamesmanship between defense and prosecution. Sometimes both sides don't want a principle analyzed because they are afraid of what the result will be. In this instance this diatoms is that something every medical examiner knows about that should have been done here?


BADEN: I think all medical examiners know about it. I think it should have been done. As you indicated, maybe the prosecutor didn't want to do it. Maybe the defense didn't want to do it because they didn't want the results. But it could have been done, it should have been done and it wasnt done.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...case-csi-look-forensic-evidence#ixzz1R6Gcduhp


I thought dr G based homocide on 3 things.
-in the woods in a bag
-911 not called
-duct tape across mouth.

hmmm... :waitasec:

Dr Baden's WIFE. Linda Kenny Baden was IN CHARGE of the DT FORENSICS
at the time the test would have been done. So is he saying his wife was being sneaky? Why wouldn't she want that test done if it could prove a drowning took place?
It makes me think there was NO DROWNING. Because, imo, it was only the DT that would benefit from it.
And why the heck would the state be doing that if the DT had not yet shared with them their story of the death? Up until 6 weeks ago they were saying it was a kidnapping. So why would the state be expected to check for a pool accident?

 

[Jolynna]

I never entirely got before why ICA needed a shovel. Now I get that ICA was following her family pet burial tradition. It is also clearer than ever why Caylee was bagged.

I do not believe there is any reasonable explanation for 3 pieces of duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose, so I always thought ICA was guilty of first degree murder. But, before the defense case in chief, I DID wonder what ICA was going to do with the shovel.

 

[RANCH]

To be found in the bone marrow I'm pretty sure it needs to be a wet drowning (meaning water gets in the lungs) and there has to be enough time for the heart to circulate the blood for a bit. Again, I'm not an expert but I don't think external conditions after death would result in diatoms being in the bone marrow. MOO

I guess we'll have to wait for the next case because this one is almost over. God forbid a retrial.

 

[BrownRice]

I'm on vacation right now at the beach with a group of people. I am the only person really following the case, but others know of it (watch NG and don't live under a rock). They think there is reasonable doubt. I, obviously, do not.

 

[gngr~snap]

Dr Baden's WIFE. Linda Kenny Baden was IN CHARGE of the DT FORENSICS
at the time the test would have been done. So is he saying his wife was being sneaky? Why wouldn't she want that test done if it could prove a drowning took place?
It makes me think there was NO DROWNING. Because, imo, it was only the DT that would benefit from it.
And why the heck would the state be doing that if the DT had not yet shared with them their story of the death? Up until 6 weeks ago they were saying it was a kidnapping. So why would the state be expected to check for a pool accident?

Makes ya wonder doesn't it? It still wouldn't prove accidental(caylee climed up the stairs when mammy was on the internet in Lee's old room)
or homocide (ICA dropped her off the sairs into the pool and walked away)

The lack of the 911 call is pretty big-
moo

 

[ZsaZsa]

I know who I will trust, given a choice of JB/Dr Spitz/LKB or two cadaver dogs.
They did not alert on the pool.

 

[LambChop]

JB was correct when he said YM did not give KC an opportunity to admit to an accident during her statement to him. It was John Allen while they were doing the interview at Universal. John Allen was very clear about asking KC if it was an "Accident that may have snowballed out of control?" This tape was released in discovery and the media broadcasted it frequently. KC very matter of factly states no. No stress, no hesitation whatsoever.

JB openly admits that the A's are liars, surprise, surprise....but didn't LDB ask CA and LA about meeting with defense. All JB has done is point out that the A's have lied on the stand but their statements were slanted in favor of KC. JB calls CA as his witness questions her about the chloroform searches and never challenges her. When CA is impeached all of a sudden JB admits KC did the searches but did so because she wanted to see why RM had it on his computer. Then why did KC delete that whole file containing that information on her system at the very time she had downloaded pictures of Caylee onto a zip drive for YM.

There are obvious holes in JB's closing statement and let's hope during rebuttal SA will clear up some of the "mistruths". I'd love to see the jury ask to look at the carpet that was in the trunk. jmo

 

[SCWldneart]

Reasonable doubt and illogical confusion are not one in the same. It's called "reasonable" doubt for a reason.

 

[RANCH]

I'm on vacation right now at the beach with a group of people. I am the only person really following the case, but others know of it (watch NG and don't live under a rock). They think there is reasonable doubt. I, obviously, do not.

Your at the beach? LOOK OUT FOR THE DIATOMS!

 

[LambChop]

So according to defense's theory everyone, everyone had a vendetta against KC, including Gerus and Bones. jmo

 

[aim]

I remember some testimony about diatoms awhile back. There was an expert who said that you could test for diatoms to see if there was a drowning. His explanation was that many pool filters utilize diatomaceous earth media to clean or filter the water.

I have a pool and we have a de filter and I can assure you that most pools do not use this type of filtration system. Number one, it is a more expensive system. Number two, it requires more maintenance and is a big pain to change the media. Even the pool company advised us to get a sand filter because they filter well and aren't as much maintenance. I don't believe that they had this type of filter for an above ground pool as it is just a pain.

So....unless I am mistaken, the only testimony about diatoms was regarding the pool filtration system which I can't imagine that the would have in their pool.

 

[RANCH]

JB was correct when he said YM did not give KC an opportunity to admit to an accident during her statement to him. It was John Allen while they were doing the interview at Universal. John Allen was very clear about asking KC if it was an "Accident that may have snowballed out of control?" This tape was released in discovery and the media broadcasted it frequently. KC very matter of factly states no. No stress, no hesitation whatsoever.

JB openly admits that the A's are liars, surprise, surprise....but didn't LDB ask CA and LA about meeting with defense. All JB has done is point out that the A's have lied on the stand but their statements were slanted in favor of KC. JB calls CA as his witness questions her about the chloroform searches and never challenges her. When CA is impeached all of a sudden JB admits KC did the searches but did so because she wanted to see why RM had it on his computer. Then why did KC delete that whole file containing that information on her system at the very time she had downloaded pictures of Caylee onto a zip drive for YM.

There are obvious holes in JB's closing statement and let's hope during rebuttal SA will clear up some of the "mistruths". I'd love to see the jury ask to look at the carpet that was in the trunk. jmo

JB want's us to believe that ICA is a liar, but, its ok because she was raised that way.LE. They lied. George.Lied.Cindy.Lied.Tow yard guy.Lied.Wait. Some LE told the truth.Well, only under JB magical examination. Aint he something?

 

[smithjrsgirl55]

I know that the burdeon of proof relies on the SA's to prove and the DT doesn't have to prove anything but if ICA was really innocent wouldn't you think that they would try to make a little more effort in proving her innocence? After all, she could get the death penalty. The accident/ moelestation theory was imo to just try to prove reasonable doubt. And that would maybe create reasonable doubt it they had some proof of either one happening. Not to mention that ICA sat in jail for three years over an accident?!? The DT had to come up with another lie to counter the other lies and after the evidence proved that someone from that home was responsible for her death.The DT theory really does not make any logic sense to me. As far as I'm concerned the state showed plenty of evidence to show that ICA was responsible for the death of her daughter. I can't get past the fact of the 31 days and who knows how long it would have been if CA hadn't done what she did to find her grand daughter. If ICA was such a loving mother then how could she throw her daughter in a swamp to rot. If GA did it, which I don't think he did then she still knew where she was and she was okay with knowing that her daughter was rotting somewhere without a proper burial. I just hope the jury sees the truth and justice is served for Caylee!

 

[Tuffy]

But if they scooped her out of the pool wouldn't they place her in the grass right next to the pool and try to revive her? Because there were no alerts NEAR the pool.

I don't think it was said that they tried to revive her though, right? They knew there was no helping her, she was gone. The only thing they did was hide the body and lie, right. Of course all of this drowning scenario, is just a story, so...:crazy:

 

[gngr~snap]

So according to defense's theory everyone, everyone had a vendetta against KC, including Gerus and Bones. jmo

Good! sounds like dogs didn't fair well living with her! lol

 

[Tuffy]

So according to defense's theory everyone, everyone had a vendetta against KC, including Gerus and Bones. jmo