Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

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I don't buy duct tape to shut Caylee up? Did KC bind her hands as well?

That's okay, I don't buy the application after death to stage a kidnapping (that would be the one and only thing she did to stage this elaborate set up) or to contain body fluids. I think the body fluids caught her completely by surprise or she would have dumped the body sooner.

A two year old wouldn't be able to get duct tape off her face. The ME had to cut the tape out of her hair.
 
So here's a little irony. As hungry as I was for more information, I was hesitant to read those docs this morning because I was afraid they'd reveal something even more horrific than the duct tape, like some evidence of torture. Instead we're left with a little red heart and more muddy waters.
 
Miss Casey is not presenting an "accidental death" defense.

How is the defense going to proffer a theory of accidental death, when the client continues to claim to be utterly uninvolved?

She's not?????????????

LET'S NOT FORGET
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On a separate note, Caylee`s grandfather, George Anthony, was reportedly spotted last week in an area where searches are expected to resume for the little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is another wooded area that`s easily accessible by car yet easy to disappear into. And it`s less than four miles from where Casey Anthony and Caylee lived with Casey`s parents. The Channel 9 viewer told us she saw Caylee`s grandfather, George`s, car parked in this area about 6:15 PM on October 30 and that he was staring into the woods. Then she saw him get into his car and drive away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. To say it is bad enough. To put it in writing, unheard of. I`m reading what reports say was in this defense memo. They actually state if death did occur, it was almost certainly due to an unwitting overdose of sedative, and they allude to chloroform?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: That`s right. They say it was almost certainly a tragic accident, that she might have been poisoned by chloroform, also might have been under the effects of a sedative, maybe an unwitting overdose of a sedative, and again, as you said, using baby pictures of Casey to gain some sympathy from prosecutors in deciding whether to go after the death penalty in this case.

GRACE: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What happened to, Caylee`s alive, she`s been kidnapped by Zenaida Gonzalez and she`s living in Mexico? What happened to that? Why are we suddenly finding out about a memo -- that is not for the public, I might add, we`re not supposed to find out about this -- the defense writes a memo that says the child may have died by an unwitting overdose? Like Caylee climbed into the medicine cabinet and accidentally got some Robitussin?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Right. There was no mention of Zenaida Gonzalez today. But even today, Jose Baez did say that they still are, you know, under the belief that Caylee Anthony is alive, even as they`re laying out, basically, their defense of why she shouldn`t get the death penalty, among other reasons that she was young, that she may have been mentally ill. One of her attorneys even said, you know, that she is mentally ill, that he wanted her to get a psychiatric evaluation, but Jose Baez wouldn`t let that happen.

GRACE: OK. This is so wrong. We are taking your calls live. The defense actually putting it in writing -- and of course, it got leaked -- that little Caylee may have died from an accidental overdose, alluding to the chloroform found in the tot mom`s car trunk.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. I can`t wait to hear this. Everybody, child advocate out of LA, you know her well, Gloria Allred, joining us tonight, veteran defense attorney Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, defense attorney Renee Rockwell also joining us out of Atlanta.

Ray, what were they thinking? What were they thinking to, number one, even say this, and number two, put it in writing?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, let me take a contrarian approach to this. I think they knew it was going to get leaked. I think a very -- much more savvy defense counsel is trying to steer this to a guilty plea to count three of that indictment, the aggravated manslaughter count, the language of which permits a plea if there was an accidental death. And I think that`s where they`re going.

GRACE: OK. Let me see -- there he is. So Raymond Giudice, what would be accidental about putting a rag soaked in chloroform over a child`s mouth and leaving her in the car trunk?

GIUDICE: If what she was trying to accomplish was to sedate the child or calm the child down or medicate the child...

GRACE: Medicate the child...

GIUDICE: ... and the child died accidentally.

GRACE: You know what, Ray? You know, I know you haven`t given birth, but typically, when a mother wants to calm a child, you sing it a lullaby. Maybe you take it to the window. Maybe you get up and walk around with it. You don`t give it chloroform.

GIUDICE: And that`s the difference why it would be a felony, Nancy. I agree with you, it`s a crime. But the difference is, it`s not a capital death penalty homicide, and that`s where the defense is going.

GRACE: You know what? You are making me break my vow to give up cursing, Ray Giudice. Gloria Allred, please explain the theory of felony murder and why this would be a murder one, if this scenario is correct.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, it could possibly be murder one. And you know, here`s the question that I have, too, Nancy, which is, why, if they want to claim insanity, would they not permit a mental exam of their client?

GRACE: Well, I can tell you that, Gloria.

ALLRED: Why?

GRACE: Because they`re still saying the child is -- publicly, anyway, Jose Baez, the defense, is saying the child is alive, she was kidnapped by a nanny, and she`s well and thriving in Puerto Rico or Mexico or Texas. This was not to be leaked. This is completely contrary to their public position.

ALLRED: They`re trying to have the best of all worlds, and they can`t. They`re going to have to choose a theory. They`re going to have to have facts that support their theory, and they`re going to have to stick to it. They`re not going to be able to have it all.
 
I just don't see the Winnie the Pooh blanket as "loving" at all. I more saw it as something handy, something that was convenient. As for the heart sticker, all I can see is that it is one of the sickest things I have ever heard in my life and I will never understand why a mother would decorate the duct tape on her dead daughter's mouth.
 
Bolded by me

And who would go to all that bother if they'd just deliberately murdered their child?

Somebody who's whacked out and sick enough to murder their child in the first place.
 
After I asked the question, I walked away from the computer for awhile. I was so sickened by the revelation of the heart sticker that I couldn't fathom how it could be used to disprove guilt. I took a short walk in the cold and put on my lawyer hat. (No, I'm not a lawyer, but I think like one.)

It could be argued that attaching the sticker shows lack of planning and deliberation. Rather, it's a rash and reckless act. As for malice aforethought, the general public has a hard time accepting that a mother could kill her child. Just look at the number of doubters on this board. Fillicide and infanticide are such unnatural acts, we can't wrap our heads around it. To convince a jury, the prosecutors will attempt to portray a vile selfish woman with deep resentment and hatred for her child. But the sticker shows love, not to mention all the happy photos. The prosecution will have to show that she both loved and hated Caylee, which will confuse the jury. So, I agree. It is a potential obstacle. I don't like it, but I agree.
I don't think Casey having a "love/hate" relationship with Caylee is confusing. I could very much buy that. Although I don't think, though I have no proof, that Casey really loved Caylee at all, even in a sick or twisted way. I think she may have liked her for a time, may have viewed her as useful, but when that phase passed she didn't want her anymore. Doesn't necessarily mean she had to hate the child with a purple passion to want to kill her. Maybe she hated Cindy and was willing to kill Caylee to make Cindy pay. Or a variety of other reasons, freedom, child being able to talk, etc.

What it boils down to is I just still don't see how a heart sticker and Pooh blanket necessarily say "love." even in a twisted way.

Also, if there is some kidnapper or someone out there who did this instead of Casey - why hasn't she said so? Caylee is dead now so there's no reason to hold back the information. The nanny business was an obvious fabrication, so why doesn't she now tell what REALLY happened, if it wasn't Casey what was it?
 
That's okay, I don't buy the application after death to stage a kidnapping (that would be the one and only thing she did to stage this elaborate set up) or to contain body fluids. I think the body fluids caught her completely by surprise or she would have dumped the body sooner.

A two year old wouldn't be able to get duct tape off her face. The ME had to cut the tape out of her hair.
My two year old, nearly three year old would have been able to get duct tape off! She would certainly of created a riot in her attempts.
 
Impatientredhead said:
Everyone's interpretations of the sticker are so varied, very interesting takes.

The context that comes to mind for me is:
Casey and Caylee locked in the room after the fight.
Caylee wants the sticker.
Casey wants to play cellphone games with Tony.
Caylee asking/bothering/making Tony want to get off the phone so Casey can be a mom (the horror) ends with duct tape over Caylee's mouth to shut her up and a "here's your f'ing sticker."
That sounds more like the gal I have seen in the jailhouse calls than a symbolic kiss goodbye.

I think Caylee died in the room that night and that Casey didn't come out of the room until George left for work. Her cellphone and internet usage seems to support that.

ImpatientRedhead, your explanation of the night of Caylee's murder makes the most sense to me. Since in KC's mind Caylee was the cause of all her problems and was interfering with her lifestyle, taking her daughter's life was just going to make things "better" for her (or so she thought). And how easy and spiteful to just shut Caylee up with a bit of duct tape across her mouth and cheeks--with a heart-shaped sticker in the center of the duct tape, covering the area over Caylee's mouth.

Cold, callous, and contemptible Casey--sounds exactly like something she would do.

Very well thought out reasoning, IRH.
 
But under Florida law, any type of child abuse or neglect that results in the child's death equals murder.
--------------------
Thanks aksleuth,I was hoping to see this response. I couldn't remember exactly how it was worded.I keep praying Caylee was already unconscience when the tape was placed.I wish we could send heart shaped stickers on pieces of paper~just one heart each to KC..Oh I want to!!
 
One of my reasons for thinking Caylee was being drugged for some time is that she appeared to be not very developed with her speech, and a little behind in potty-training. Everytime I see that last video of her I get chills when Caylee puts that cloth over her nose and blinks....never settled with me.

where are you getting she was not developed with her speech? in the videos, she sounds fine to me. like the, "papa, are you tired, papa?" seems age appropriate.
 
In Florida, aggravated child abuse is a felony. If a felony results in a murder then the felony murder rule comes into effect.

felony + resulting murder = felony murder

Casey was charged with aggravated child abuse of Caylee, among other charges. If Caylee died during Casey's commission of aggravated child abuse then Casey can be charged with felony murder. Period.
---

However, Casey can also be charged with premediated murder. Frankly, my "gut" tells me that Casey premeditated the murder of Caylee. I could give a laundry list of why I think so but let's just start with the searches for chloroform (we now know on ONE of the chloroform search days, as there was more than one, both GA and CA were at work). Chloroform was also found in the sunfire's trunk. We don't know if Caylee was physically chloroformed at this point simply because she was too decomposed to make the determination. But the duct tape tells me much of what I need to know! Mind you, I form my opinion on one piece of evidence but rather take in all the facts to form a coherent picture.

Just because (I surmise) Casey grabbed the blanket off the bed in Caylee's room and used it as an item of opportunity (wrapping Caylee in it in order to move her unnoticed to the trunk or backyard) does not mean it was not premeditated. Premeditation can occur in the "twinkling of an eye". I surmise that Casey was boiling mad at Cindy during and after their alleged fight on June 15th. I think that Casey took Caylee out of her room (still wearing the same clothes from the Father's Day video) and took off in a huff. We heard evidence on how Casey would "pretend" to go to work and turn around and go back home when the coast was clear. I surmise Casey drove around the block to her usual spot and texted and called Tony trying to go over there with Caylee but he was not eager to have Caylee over that night. Casey was beyond mad, maybe Caylee was crying and Casey thought she'd shut Caylee up for good. All it takes is the decision to put the duct tape on the child's mouth to smother her, pick up the tape, rip it with your teeth, put it on the child's mouth, and VOILA you have premeditation. It's that simple. I don't know if she chloroformed her first before putting on the duct tape. By allowing the poor child to decompose out in the woods and not telling ANYONE she was missing for 31 days Casey gained the upper hand.

Duct tape over the mouth also screams MALICE to me. I can't think of any other reason for duct tape being on a toddler's mouth other than to silence their screams or smother them. :)

What the blanket says to me? It tells me that the killer took the item from Caylee's room and that the killer was not a stranger [as Caylee was not abducted from her home].

What the heart-shaped sticker on the duct tape says to me? It tells me that there is *some* emotional attachment to the child -- but TWISTED (i.e.,. all kinds of wrong)! Couple it with CASEY changing Caylee's pictures to BLACK and WHITE and adding the red heart (in the days after Caylee went "missing") and you have a sort of memorial. The heart-shaped sticker also is a childish manouever. I can also see it as a move of a "spiteful b*tch". I have never heard of a kidnapper placing duct tape over a toddler's mouth and then putting stickers on it.

What the white hamper liner says to me? Again, the killer of Caylee is not a stranger. Caylee was found with items from her home (though it was not claimed she was snatched from her home). It also smacks to me over trying to "cover" the body.

What I love is that some of the naysayers are saying that the State's case is essentially weak. Would you like to stipulate for the record that Casey did it (in your mind an accident)? I don't think Baez would agree with you as he seems to still be claiming the Invisi-nanny did it!
 
Putting duct tape on your child is aggravated child abuse, people have been prosecuted for it.

And a toddler could easily die with duct tape over their mouth, nose exposed or not. They panic and start to cry, they can no longer breathe through their mouth or nose, or they vomit and choke.

I accept that it could lead to a conviction for aggravated child abuse (if it can be shown that the tape was applied before death), but the leap from that to a conviction for murder as a result of that abuse requires a causal link and IMO it is far from clear from the evidence so far, what link the prosecution intends to show, and more importantly, how!
 
Putting duct tape on someone's mouth does not cause death. There is no evidence as yet that the tape was also over Caylee's nose (suffocation), or that duct tape and chloroform was used to kill. Or was it duct tape and Zanex, duct tape and child medication, duct tape and drowning in the pool, or something else? Was the duct tape even applied before death? The duct tape alone does not prove deliberate murder, or even aggravated child abuse, nor does it help to establish a cause of death. So which combination scenario will the prosecution choose?
You raise a valid point. The duct tape only points to torture before she killed her. The actual mode of death is unknown until we see the toxicology and other forensic final reports done on the hair, bodily fluids, etc.

I wonder if baby teeth could hold any valuable clues in that respect?

I believe they will be able to show if the tape was placed on her mouth prior to death. Logic tells us that it was, but science could prove it. There is no reason to duct tape the mouth of someone who can't speak.

As JWG pointed out, the heart is a common thread through Casey's world along with her obsession with shamrocks. Have we seen her tattoo yet? I am curious to learn of any other things where the hearts come into play for Casey around the time of Caylee's murder.
 
ITA-very well stated



I agree with the regret theory and I think because they played the game with her as a child without consequences then they had to when she became an "adult"

That would be a very hard game. We all have to deal with something in our lives, but to deal with an adult child with a beautiful child that's gone/missing, and possibly by their daughter, and KC being a lying, cheating, stealing and again a lying adult child. Whew! Something I don't want to imagine as mine are older. Tough times are tough, but this is too hard to think you would have to pussyfoot around a daughter at this point in the case. I would be reeling her in! Please dear God, don't ever let me be like this family and and have to depend on this type of defense attorneys. Total mess.
 
From WFTV ; pull-up pants with a flower design like the ones found with Caylee's remains

I won't be able to find the page in the document dump until tomorrow - LOST takes precedence tonight - I ACTUALLY have my 20 yr old daughter downstairs with me and I'm not wasting my time on the computer when I can spend time with her

I think WFTV didn't read the docs. through properly! My post in the 'myths' thread explains the reference to these pull-ups. :)
 
I don't think Casey having a "love/hate" relationship with Caylee is confusing. I could very much buy that. Although I don't think, though I have no proof, that Casey really loved Caylee at all, even in a sick or twisted way. I think she may have liked her for a time, may have viewed her as useful, but when that phase passed she didn't want her anymore. Doesn't necessarily mean she had to hate the child with a purple passion to want to kill her. Maybe she hated Cindy and was willing to kill Caylee to make Cindy pay. Or a variety of other reasons, freedom, child being able to talk, etc.

What it boils down to is I just still don't see how a heart sticker and Pooh blanket necessarily say "love." even in a twisted way.
I promise you there are twelve people in this forum alone who do. Note I said a potential obstacle. It's not a certain detriment to the prosecution's case, but it is an issue they'll have to resolve.
 
I just don't see the Winnie the Pooh blanket as "loving" at all. I more saw it as something handy, something that was convenient. As for the heart sticker, all I can see is that it is one of the sickest things I have ever heard in my life and I will never understand why a mother would decorate the duct tape on her dead daughter's mouth.
-------------
Hi, I agree.I think she did this for the same reason some killers will carve things on a victims body.I dont know why,but they do it.Dan (I believe) Horowitz wife had something carved on her,I think on her chest.It is the work of a very sick mind.
She was being a sick sarcastic witch.
 
I just don't see the Winnie the Pooh blanket as "loving" at all. I more saw it as something handy, something that was convenient. As for the heart sticker, all I can see is that it is one of the sickest things I have ever heard in my life and I will never understand why a mother would decorate the duct tape on her dead daughter's mouth.

The more I think about it, I think Caylee died in Casey's room.
Casey wrapped her in the blanket before she was placed in the laundry bag.
 
Unless the state kills your azz by way of the death penalty, I can't think of any other way to kill somebody that is not unlawful.

self-defense. accident. if you're driving along in your car and they run out in front of you. etc.
 
I accept that it could lead to a conviction for aggravated child abuse (if it can be shown that the tape was applied before death), but the leap from that to a conviction for murder as a result of that abuse requires a causal link and IMO it is far from clear from the evidence so far, what link the prosecution intends to show, and more importantly, how!

Drugging a child would be abuse. Maybe forensic testing of the hair could provide that link?
 
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