Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

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BBM ... this part interests me. Apologies if this has been discussed earlier - but why could he not discuss the contents of the bucket? He finds human remains on the ground behind him, but the contents of the bucket are off limits for discussion?

I read it as "he flipped over the bucket then felt a cold chill come over him. He can't discuss the contents, however. [He] then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

So to me it reads as whatever fell out of the bucket sent him a chill before he even saw the skull.
IMO Holly's case was very widely known by everyone. Her picture was very familiar with her beautiful blond hair. It was known that she was wearing a pink top and light blue jeans when she disappeared. Could it have been something specific to Holly? Her blond hair? Pink shirt?

Earlier when they found it I thought maybe a gun fell out, but I don't think that would give a hunter a chill.

They left the bucket there upside down apparently. I am willing to bet that they came back there at times as some ritual. Whatever was in that bucket was important and protected from the elements.

And it gave a hunter a chill.

MOO
 
I'm new to reading about this case, Could this have been her brother that killed her? I was just reading about it on Wikipedia. It says a neighbour heard a scream, yet her brother didn't hear a scream. Her brother stood and watched while she was arguing with this 'man' without intervening. Nobody else was inside the house as her mom and dad had left for work. Her brother had the house to himself with just Holly there.
 
I read it as "he flipped over the bucket then felt a cold chill come over him. He can't discuss the contents, however. [He] then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

So to me it reads as whatever fell out of the bucket sent him a chill before he even saw the skull.
IMO Holly's case was very widely known by everyone. Her picture was very familiar with her beautiful blond hair. It was known that she was wearing a pink top and light blue jeans when she disappeared. Could it have been something specific to Holly? Her blond hair? Pink shirt?

Earlier when they found it I thought maybe a gun fell out, but I don't think that would give a hunter a chill.

They left the bucket there upside down apparently. I am willing to bet that they came back there at times as some ritual. Whatever was in that bucket was important and protected from the elements.

And it gave a hunter a chill.

MOO

I'n not disputing the fact that he felt cold chills, or when he felt them - more that his words suggest that he isn't permitted to discuss the contents of the bucket, but he can mention the skull and remains he turned and saw behind him. Maybe it's just not terribly clear writing on the part of the journalist, but it reads as though there was some kind of evidence that LE don't want discussed.

"he saw a large bucket in the area of the woods where he was searching for ginseng plants. Stone said he flipped over the bucket, the contents of which he can’t discuss, then felt a cold chill come over his body.

The lifelong hunter then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newschan...274824611.html

I think we are on the same page anyway Steleheart. Hopefully the bucket contained something definitive that won't be able to be explained away at trial. It just occurred to me that rather than being something directly connected to Holly herself (hair, clothing etc. - they wouldn't really need to be kept secret as the remains were already positively identified as being Holly's) it may be something that indisputably links the alleged killers or their DNA.
Actually the alleged killers would have to be all kinds of stupid to leave anything of their own right there alongside Holly's remains :thinking:
 
I'm new to reading about this case, Could this have been her brother that killed her? I was just reading about it on Wikipedia. It says a neighbour heard a scream, yet her brother didn't hear a scream. Her brother stood and watched while she was arguing with this 'man' without intervening. Nobody else was inside the house as her mom and dad had left for work. Her brother had the house to himself with just Holly there.

Hi rubylulu - you have lots of reading to do :)
 
I'n not disputing the fact that he felt cold chills, or when he felt them - more that his words suggest that he isn't permitted to discuss the contents of the bucket, but he can mention the skull and remains he turned and saw behind him. Maybe it's just not terribly clear writing on the part of the journalist, but it reads as though there was some kind of evidence that LE don't want discussed.



I think we are on the same page anyway Steleheart. Hopefully the bucket contained something definitive that won't be able to be explained away at trial. It just occurred to me that rather than being something directly connected to Holly herself (hair, clothing etc. - they wouldn't really need to be kept secret as the remains were already positively identified as being Holly's) it may be something that indisputably links the alleged killers or their DNA.
Actually the alleged killers would have to be all kinds of stupid to leave anything of their own right there alongside Holly's remains :thinking:

Yea, I don't think we're disputing anything, LOL.
Definitely evidence he is not 'allowed' to discuss - evidence that only the perpetrators would know exists. I was going off the chill factor. Whatever was under that bucket was put there purposely, was identifiable as something chilling, and requires non-disclosure. Something generally unknown about this case.
So my thought was he experienced an OMG, Holly! moment. Remains in general would not matter as you say unless there was something significant about it.

There was something about the search that convinced the Bobo's, there was something about the bucket that grabbed at the ginseng guy and IIRC it took nearly no time at all to positively identify the remains.

Baffling.

MOO
 
I read it as "he flipped over the bucket then felt a cold chill come over him. He can't discuss the contents, however. [He] then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

So to me it reads as whatever fell out of the bucket sent him a chill before he even saw the skull.
IMO Holly's case was very widely known by everyone. Her picture was very familiar with her beautiful blond hair. It was known that she was wearing a pink top and light blue jeans when she disappeared. Could it have been something specific to Holly? Her blond hair? Pink shirt?

Earlier when they found it I thought maybe a gun fell out, but I don't think that would give a hunter a chill.

They left the bucket there upside down apparently. I am willing to bet that they came back there at times as some ritual. Whatever was in that bucket was important and protected from the elements.

And it gave a hunter a chill.

MOO

I believe that is called "melodrama". A useful thing to do when on TV if you want them to actually carry your interview.
 
While there are always exceptions to the rule, I think that most jurors take their jobs seriously. Most, not all defendants are guilty and the prosecution has enough evidence to convict them. That is why most defendants are convicted. It really isn't a matter of the juror being liberal or conservative.

I would be interested in seeing a link or study that shows where "conservatives...have been known to vote guilty in cases with little evidence and support lengthy prison sentences for minor crimes. They don't belong on death-penalty juries or on any juries for that matter." I worked in the criminal justice field for 37 years and never saw anything like that. Are you suggesting that only liberals should be on capital (death-penalty) case juries?

I will add that I never saw a prospective juror asked if they are liberal or conservative, democrat or republican or anything like that. I'm not sure if that is legal or not. At best, it would be unethical. I know that the prosecution and the defense attorneys have access to prospective jurors criminal records, but that surely doesn't make them liberal or conservative.

Again, I would enjoy reading the link that supports your statements.

Ya, they take their jobs seriously, and they see their jobs as being to "fry the bastards". Therein lies the problem.

The bottom line is that once a prosecutor has you in their sights, your goose is mostly cooked and unless you have a lot of money you are going down, guilty or not.
 
He did have a lawyer. It was the same attorney that represented him in the gun charges.

What I mean is a lawyer present, because there is no way that any lawyer would have allowed such an interview to happen. I would guess that LE persuaded him that he didn't really need a lawyer and that he should trust them that they were looking after his best interests.

He apparently has a low IQ, so it wouldn't be hard for an experienced interrogator to do that with such a person.
 
I tend to think there has been no plea deal ever offered to Dylan. He has been charged with rape for sometime now and aggravated rape can get him LWOP.

I think all along LE has suspected Dylan was another main participant in the kidnapping, rapes, and murder and that is why they have said from the start this case is ongoing and the new indictments shows that to be true. It was even mentioned by the prior DA iirc that they expected more charges to be filed.

I always felt more indictments would be forthcoming. I don't think they ever relied on Dylan as much as others seem to think. If he had a plea deal it would be known just like we knew about Shayne Autry's agreement. If it had been null and void Dylan's attorney would be telling everyone just like SAs attorney did.

This prosecutor doesn't have to do a re-indictment to clear the slate. Its just simpler to combine them all together when adding additional charges to the same three defendants. The indictments by the GJ are usually read in court so the charges can be recorded for the record.

When she was recently assigned to the case it restarted the clock then. In fact I haven't read that the Judge has even given this prosecuting attorney a specific date that discovery must be turned over. All Judges that I have seen gives the newly assigned prosecutor ample time to thoroughly go through the case evidence to know exactly what the case files hold and we are talking about 27K pages iirc already in the TBI's files before these three were even arrested.

I think the State has a very solid case and I think all three defendants know it. No one that is truly innocent is willing to waive their constitutional right to a speedy trial, and instead are willing to wait for years by being locked up in jail awaiting trial. If the defendants didn't think the state had the evidence to prove their case they would have jumped at the speedy trial options so they could be acquitted for lack of evidence where they would be free to go on to commit other crimes like they have done in the past.

IMO

He was given a deal on unrelated charges, that is why he wasn't in prison. Since he was positioned as a witness in the Bobo case, he didn't need a deal for that.

The prosecutor does have to do a new indictment to clear the slate. Normally, if charges are dropped due to something like lack of evidence, they cant be refilled since the case is considered to have a final judgement. But, if they file new charges that are more "serious", those will superceded the older charges. Under those circumstances the old charges can be dropped without prejudice. The new charges will start the process from scratch again.

That is the game the current prosecutor is playing. She is manipulating the rules to create an environment that favors conviction. Justice has nothing to do with it.
 
While there are always exceptions to the rule, I think that most jurors take their jobs seriously. Most, not all defendants are guilty and the prosecution has enough evidence to convict them. That is why most defendants are convicted. It really isn't a matter of the juror being liberal or conservative.

I would be interested in seeing a link or study that shows where "conservatives...have been known to vote guilty in cases with little evidence and support lengthy prison sentences for minor crimes. They don't belong on death-penalty juries or on any juries for that matter." I worked in the criminal justice field for 37 years and never saw anything like that. Are you suggesting that only liberals should be on capital (death-penalty) case juries?

I will add that I never saw a prospective juror asked if they are liberal or conservative, democrat or republican or anything like that. I'm not sure if that is legal or not. At best, it would be unethical. I know that the prosecution and the defense attorneys have access to prospective jurors criminal records, but that surely doesn't make them liberal or conservative.

Again, I would enjoy reading the link that supports your statements.

Except that is not really true. If it were then false convictions would be rare since the average jury would err on the side of innocence, but they are not. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/28/innocent-death-penalty-study_n_5228854.html
 
Ya, they take their jobs seriously, and they see their jobs as being to "fry the bastards". Therein lies the problem.

The bottom line is that once a prosecutor has you in their sights, your goose is mostly cooked and unless you have a lot of money you are going down, guilty or not.

When I said they take their jobs seriously, I meant they follow the Court's instructions and are fair and impartial. No, most do not employ a "fry the bastards" mentality. There is no basis for such a statement.

To suggest that only people with "a lot of money" are going to be acquitted is also not correct. Public Defenders and Court-appointed lawyers win cases as well. Keep in mind that the prominent lawyers usually take a small number of Court-appointed cases. This is usually done when the public defender's office has a conflict of interest or if the public defender's office reaches the maximum number of cases it can represent. The top criminal lawyer in my hometown told me years ago that he takes at least one Court-appointed case each criminal term of the Court. He felt is was his civic duty as an Officer of the Court to do so. He also said that the Judges, when addressing the local Bar, strongly encouraged each of the attorneys practicing criminal law to take Court-appointed cases. This not MOO, but instead my personal experience.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Steleheart View Post
I read it as "he flipped over the bucket then felt a cold chill come over him. He can't discuss the contents, however. [He] then turned around and saw on the ground behind him a human skull and other remains spread across the area."

So to me it reads as whatever fell out of the bucket sent him a chill before he even saw the skull.
IMO Holly's case was very widely known by everyone. Her picture was very familiar with her beautiful blond hair. It was known that she was wearing a pink top and light blue jeans when she disappeared. Could it have been something specific to Holly? Her blond hair? Pink shirt?

Earlier when they found it I thought maybe a gun fell out, but I don't think that would give a hunter a chill.

They left the bucket there upside down apparently. I am willing to bet that they came back there at times as some ritual. Whatever was in that bucket was important and protected from the elements.

And it gave a hunter a chill.

MOO

I believe that is called "melodrama". A useful thing to do when on TV if you want them to actually carry your interview.

<BBM for Focus>
Tugela, imo, melodrama had absolutely nothing to do with the cold chill or the river of tears that the ginseng hunter; LS, has shed, both during and since, the discovery of Holly Bobo's remains.. This would send chills up any empathetic persons spine, especially a father or mother.

There is always a spiritual connection in violent homicide cases, imo. Innocent victims of violent crime want to be found and will speak to and guide those who will only listen.. I salute Larry Stone, who simply listened.. I'm a firm believer that we all have a purpose in life and you never know when that purpose will be reached. LS realized his lifes' purpose that day while hunting ginseng. His miraculous story should be told..
Imo, LS drove the final nails into the coffins of those soulless creatures responsible for Holly Bobos' tragic abduction and horrific murder..

"I feel so much sorrow and pain for her family," quote by Larry Stone

Read more: http://www.wsmv.com/story/26508949/...emains-of-holly-bobo-were-found#ixzz3bilG9PL6

<snipped & BBM>

Hunter Who Found Holly Bobo's Remains Speaks Out
http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/28927961/hunter-who-found-holly-bobos-remains-speaks-out

&#8220;I was facing the ravine this way (and) it was like somebody said 'Hey turn around. Here I am,'&#8221; Stone said.

&#8220;You're standing there looking at remains that you know belongs to someone that was loved and you're looking at the ground and you're seeing your daughter laying there. It hits home. I just wanna say to the Bobo's that I'm sorry for their loss."
_________________________________

http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/holly-bobo.htm

'Divine Intervention' Found Holly Bobo, Sheriff Says
Sheriff Keith Byrd says "God put those guys there" to find the remains of the missing nursing student in Tennessee.
 
When I said they take their jobs seriously, I meant they follow the Court's instructions and are fair and impartial. No, most do not employ a "fry the bastards" mentality. There is no basis for such a statement.

To suggest that only people with "a lot of money" are going to be acquitted is also not correct. Public Defenders and Court-appointed lawyers win cases as well. Keep in mind that the prominent lawyers usually take a small number of Court-appointed cases. This is usually done when the public defender's office has a conflict of interest or if the public defender's office reaches the maximum number of cases it can represent. The top criminal lawyer in my hometown told me years ago that he takes at least one Court-appointed case each criminal term of the Court. He felt is was his civic duty as an Officer of the Court to do so. He also said that the Judges, when addressing the local Bar, strongly encouraged each of the attorneys practicing criminal law to take Court-appointed cases. This not MOO, but instead my personal experience.

Tugela,

After giving our posts some extra thoughts, lets you and I just agree to disagree and move on. We both have stated our points of view and lets leave it at that.

This thread is about Holly Bobo and not about you and I. Agree?

TedMac
 
I'm new to reading about this case, Could this have been her brother that killed her? I was just reading about it on Wikipedia. It says a neighbour heard a scream, yet her brother didn't hear a scream. Her brother stood and watched while she was arguing with this 'man' without intervening. Nobody else was inside the house as her mom and dad had left for work. Her brother had the house to himself with just Holly there.


:seeya: Hello and :welcome:

As to your post above: NO -- CB had nothing to do with this.

There are 3 people sitting in :jail: who have been charged with kidnapping, rape and the murder of Holly.

There was 1 other person who was given an "immunity deal" -- which deal was rescinded -- but he committed "suicide."

This is just a suggestion and this is what I do to learn about a case I am not familiar with:

I start with the Media and Timeline Link Thread, then go back to the beginning ...But in this case, there are lots of General Discussion Threads, so you may want to start with the threads on the Search Warrants and Arrests.

I hope this helps !
 
Hi all. JMHO but finding justice for victims, especially victims of violent and sadistic crimes, is often messy, uncertain, difficult, and imperfect. And those who take on this enormous task are people that have no skin in the game yet they always dedicate their time, oftentimes their lives, and sometimes their peace and sanity, to finding truth and justice for the victims and their families.

So for me, I give these dedicated men and women of LE (who are held to standards that are all but impossible to achieve) my trust and my support UNTIL they show me otherwise. We do not know all of the facts regarding this case, as it should be when justice is on the line. But what we do know is, a vibrant and innocent young woman was murdered by a person/persons who have every reason in the world to lie, manipulate, hide, and distort the facts to avoid punishment and accountability with the help of their lawyer/s. Imperfect as it is I believe in our justice system, because when I look around on a global scale, it turns out that as far as justice goes, it's the best game in town. Therefore, I will wait until all the facts come to light at trial before I decide that Prosecutors and Grand Juries are just screwing around, willy nilly, and getting indictments on innocent people for the hell of it.

Holly Bobo deserves true justice for what was done to her, and I hope that she gets that justice soon.
 
Actually, she started playing tactical games as soon as she was appointed. When one of the defense teams objected, she basically claimed that she wasn't going to do anything more until the question was resolved. She would have still been preparing but otherwise stonewalling complying with the courts discovery requirements. That is game playing. There was nothing stopping her from providing the information in the interim, she just didn't do it by invoking a technicality.

She can set the clock back. The way it works is that the old charges are dismissed without prejudice (which happens when a prosecutor drops a charge before the court makes a final resolution on the case). Then new charges are filed and the process starts from scratch again. That appears to be what she has done.

The "new evidence" is probably the statements DA made while cooperating with LE after the case was under way. These were the statements that led to him being charged. Those statements could also be presented to a grand jury as probable cause for the other two, and presto! New charges to replace the old ones. It is just more of the file/dismiss/file strategy the prosecutors have used in the entire case so far. It is just stalling for time.

In my opinion the way it went to was something like this: Initially DA was facing serious unrelated charges, so he decides to try to get a deal by offering to turn over on his brother. Coming up with something plausible wouldn't be hard for him, because, as we all know, rumors about the "A-team" (or whatever) had been flying around for some time, so he just repeated those to LE with some embellishment. LE had heard the stories too, so he was telling them what they wanted to hear. This is what lead to the initial charges. DA himself has credibility issues and would not make a good witness if that was all they had, so they needed something more since DA's claims had not yielded anything physical to support them. Along comes SA, who is also facing serious unrelated charges. He tells LE stuff that apparently corroborates DA, so all looks good to LE and they give him the deal. Only problem is that SA doesn't really know anything and he is selling them a line. But in the course of that he made stuff up that could be verified as not true, not expecting that to make a difference. LE get POed, and threaten to revoke the deal. SA realizes that he has dug a deep hole for himself and through guilt/pressure of it all kills himself.

Now no one corroborates DA, so this is a problem. LE follow wild goose chases after the mythical video, arresting the Pearcy brothers on the slightest of evidence, then release them when it becomes clear they have nothing and the charges would be dismissed by the judge if taken further. So, DA gets pulled in for further interviews so he can come up with a more credible account that jives with what is known otherwise he isn't getting his deal. Knowing that he needs to tell them what they want to hear to get his own deal in place he starts adding details to the story so it would be more useful to LE. It is useful, for sure, because these details implicate DA and he is well and truly in the trap now. So they charge him with rape, expecting to be able to force him to now testify in a useful way to get himself off the hook he put himself on. Only he doesn't. So what do they do now? They have no other evidence short of his initial claims, which were no longer credible, and his new statements can only be used against him due to hearsay rules, not the others unless he testifies against them, which he won't do because he would incriminate himself on his own charges if he did. Unless they come up with a new approach the charges against the other two are going to get dismissed.

The solution to this problem is a sly move: dismiss the charges against the other two and file new charges against all three. This would allow them to be tried together as it is a single crime. His statements can now be introduced in the trial since the hearsay would not apply to them collectively. They no longer need him to testify, his statements now fall under the hearsay exception. It might make for a weak case against the first two, but at least they could get it in front of a jury and hope that emotive argument would win them a conviction.

My question is this: If they really did have additional evidence outside of what DA and SA claimed, why would they have gone to all this trouble, missing deadline after deadline to turn over discovery and a bill of particulars, and engaged in semi-public spats between elements of the LE team over the nature of evidence? It is really simple - if they had clear evidence then all these deals, the hail mary charges against random individuals, the spurious peripheral charges against principals, the stumbling and bumbling, the stalling would be unnecessary. They would simply proceed and comply with normal trial procedure. They would not need to clutch at straws. This is not happening, and IMO it implies that the extent of their evidence in terms of implicating the accused is limited to what DA and SA have claimed, nothing more.

I don't have a pro anything stance. What I want is that the law be followed, justice be done and that the rules of fair play be followed. I want the RIGHT people to go to jail, not a bunch of people who are *probably* or *maybe* the right people. This isn't a game, mistakes have serious consequences, so it absolutely HAS to be right or it shouldn't happen.

In this case you are right, I don't know what all they might have. But, I can only draw conclusions on what we DO know, not what we don't know. So far, all the indications and facts that have appeared point to the case depending on rumors and DA's say so, with little else.

This is exactly what is happening. There are also no doubts in my mind that her removal from the case in December before the hearing was a strategic move. They knew the judge would order them to turn over the discovery, which they had no intentions to do. They knew they could switch shortly after the deadline so they could argue that Stowe's failure to turn over discovery wasn't the current prosecutor, so therefore they weren't subject to contempt charges. They could also argue that she needed to "catch up". Ugh. I do not take kindly to prosecutors trying to game the system.
 
I'm new to reading about this case, Could this have been her brother that killed her? I was just reading about it on Wikipedia. It says a neighbour heard a scream, yet her brother didn't hear a scream. Her brother stood and watched while she was arguing with this 'man' without intervening. Nobody else was inside the house as her mom and dad had left for work. Her brother had the house to himself with just Holly there.

Hi! Welcome!

I know a lot of people have batted this idea around, but I doubt it. Just based on the fact that he is penned in by phone calls and the police arriving. What we know:

*She was fine at 7:30 when she spoke on the phone.

*We know she did not leave the home/get killed earlier than 7:40 because of the scream heard by an uninvolved party at that time.

*We know he was at the house between 7:50 and the time the police arrived shortly after 8 because he was answering his mom's phone calls and was there when the police arrived.

So basically, the only time he could've possibly attacked his sister is between 7:40 and 7:50. I don't know how long it would take to drive out to the wooded area where she was found, but I'm going to say longer than a couple of minutes. I think it was like 15-20 miles away. There's no way he could've driven her out there, murdered her, then driven home in time to answer his mom's phone call in 10 minutes. The only option is that he drove her to some alternate location nearby and trapped her there, but is it really likely for him to transfer her away from the house and store her somewhere where she can't escape in that time frame? And have no signs of being in a physical altercation? Certainly the police would've noticed if he left for a few hours to finish the job and dump the body. My guess is he spent the next couple days doing interviews with police.

Now, I guess it's possible that he knew more than he was saying. Like, maybe he owed a drug debt and they were looking for him and they kidnapped Holly to force him to pay or something. But I don't believe it's possible for him to have done this himself.
 
Ya, they take their jobs seriously, and they see their jobs as being to "fry the bastards". Therein lies the problem.

The bottom line is that once a prosecutor has you in their sights, your goose is mostly cooked and unless you have a lot of money you are going down, guilty or not.

Respectfully disagree with the bolded statement. Obviously, prosecutors did not set their sights on prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law JA and ZA for their many felonies. The prosecutors would have had to have been involved in any plea bargains they made. These guys should have already been off the streets long before Holly died. ZA and JA were treated very leniently by the justice system in that county.
 
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