Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #2 ***ARREST***

[oceanblueeyes]

Pardon me for :lurk: and not participating. Just wanted to offer some thoughts.

<snip>
"Authorities have not said whether her body has been found, but prosecutors say they believe Bobo died during the kidnapping, snuffing out the family's hopes that she could be alive."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/06/holly-bobo-student-death-tn/6136361/

IMO they could not make that determination that it was during the kidnapping unless it was based on the age of remains they found. Otherwise there is the possibility she was kept alive and murdered recently, especially if they had no physical evidence. Blood on a knife or other indications would not give a timeline. IMO

I believe they told the family but would not make it public until after anthropological and DNA testing is done which could be months. IMO

I believe the Brays rolled over on ZA with exact information which prompted the assault on Amber Bray While her brother was being investigated/interrogated re the pearl heist.

MOO

Welcome to this thread!:seeya:

I agree with a lot of what you said.

However; due to it being three years before remains were found there would be no way for them to pin down the exact day of death. Even an anthropologist will only be able to estimate the time of death. I would suspect it will be estimated to have happened sometime between April 13th to May 13th 2011 etc. Usually when testifying they tend to go with a month's range when the body or partial remains are now skeletonized.

The aggravated kidnapping charge is one continuous crime/event from beginning to end. It doesn't mean at the time of the initial kidnapping that she was murdered then or even on that day. She would be considered kidnapped all during the time period she was alive. This could be shortly after being taken or it could be she was held kidnapped for weeks before she was murdered. During the ongoing kidnapping period at some point in time she was murdered.

Although I do think it would take way more evidence than just someone turning on ZA for a SW to be obtained. Its hard to get a Judge to sign off on a search of this magnitude based only one the words of someone. Someone who may have credibility issues themselves.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I suspect some info will come out once the actual court proceedings, discovery period, etc. starts up. Everyone is in a hurry but this is going to be a slow process. I cant see a tril for at least a year, especially if ZA waves his rights to a speedy trial. You could be looking at a trial in 2016 then.

Or it could be even later than 2014 if it becomes a death penalty case. Those usually come about 3-4 years after the arrest.

I do expect his lawyer to waive his right to a speedy trial.

They will hope that the emotions and passions will die down some. I don't understand that logic though because once the jury selection starts then emotions are at fever pitch again... anyway.

I fully expect that the Bobo family will be present for every hearing.

IMO

 

[Vaedur]

I don't think anyone took ZAs crimes lightly. He has 25 arrests and a 14 page rap sheet and it has even grown since then.
IMO

I agree. But he wasn't the only one in that town to fit the MO.

 

[Steleheart]

Welcome to this thread!:seeya:

I agree with a lot of what you said.

However; due to it being three years before remains were found there would be no way for them to pin down the exact day of death. Even an anthropologist will only be able to estimate the time of death. I would suspect it will be estimated to have happened sometime between April 13th to May 13th 2011 etc. Usually when testifying they tend to go with a month's range when the body or partial remains are now skeletonized.

The aggravated kidnapping charge is one continuous crime/event from beginning to end. It doesn't mean at the time of the initial kidnapping that she was murdered then or even on that day. She would be considered kidnapped all during the time period she was alive. This could be shortly after being taken or it could be she was held kidnapped for weeks before she was murdered. During the ongoing kidnapping period at some point in time she was murdered.

Although I do think it would take way more evidence than just someone turning on ZA for a SW to be obtained. Its hard to get a Judge to sign off on a search of this magnitude based only one the words of someone. Someone who may have credibility issues themselves.

imo

Thank you. Agreed, but the phraseology used by District Attorney General Hansel McCadams;
“We believe we can prove that she was taken forcefully from her home without her consent,” District Attorney General Hansel McCadams said Wednesday. “Based on the evidence that we have before us, we also feel that she was killed in the perpetration of that kidnapping.” (BBM)

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/2...arrests-possible-after-first-suspect-indicted

"perpetration..." sounds to me that he is talking about that day, so a general condition forensics can put on remains - 1-2 years, 2-3 years, etc - coupled with a sworn testimony by a possible witness or accomplice would give them the evidence the grand jury would need to indict him on those specific charges?

MOO

 

[jggordo]

It accomplishes nothing. I think this does equally as much good as speculating on what the police does or does not have without them releasing any info imo. I don't think their was a "debate" as you say. All I posted was the fact "wow people were posting in October 2012 with Za's name". I did not know that. I shared with the people who I think all have a emotional attachment to this case and want to see justice as well.

I'm not trying to bad mouth LE. My cousin is a detective in an upstate NY police department, I have nothing but respect for them.

A friend of mind from highschool murdered someone in our town where nothing bad every happens. We all hung out with him at local parties right when it happened. He met the guy at a part of 20 year olds and they made a transaction that went south apparently. They knew he did it from the start, instantaneously, but it took them months to gather the evidence they needed to charge him. I know that's normal. I'm not faulting them at all.

I found what I was reading was pretty amazing, and shared. Which I guess I shouldn't have. I sorry. I said I'll drop it. What else can I do but build a time machine and go back in time?

First of all, I'd like to make it clear that when I made my post I meant absolutely nothing toward you or anyone else for their post(s) regarding what anyone knew or when. I guess the main thought that was sticking in my mind was DD (who gave the interview on camera) as just one, basically (and I'm paraphrasing) I told you all two years ago. Now that ZA has been arrested people are coming out of the woodwork saying such things.

IMO the FBI and TBI has systematically been taking POI's out of the mix with other charges over the last years or so. Whether it be gun charges or whatever. Cooling their heels in jail and off the streets and off the "stuff" and waiting for one of them to come to their senses, or confess to a cellmate, or become closer to religion. So when everyone believed nothing was being done by LE, in fact I believe it was...and still is. JMO's

 

[jggordo]

I would have thought by now someone local or MSM would have gone by Zach's property to see where LE used the backhoe to dig. I believe they said the backhoe came out "muddy" to me meaning it was used to dig deeper than shovels would be used. Was it near a well? To me that information would be telling.

I did some reading at the local Topix page. But almost all of that does not seem useful to me. It takes me a bottle of cheap wine to read all that. IMO what a free for all, lol.

JMO's

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree. But he wasn't the only one in that town to fit the MO.

I agree but he is THE ONE that has been arrested and charged with Holly's aggravated kidnapping and murder.

The others in that town haven't been.

So it sets him apart from others when it comes to HB.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I would have thought by now someone local or MSM would have gone by Zach's property to see where LE used the backhoe to dig. I believe they said the backhoe came out "muddy" to me meaning it was used to dig deeper than shovels would be used. Was it near a well? To me that information would be telling.

I did some reading at the local Topix page. But almost all of that does not seem useful to me. It takes me a bottle of cheap wine to read all that. IMO what a free for all, lol.

JMO's

I doubt his grandfather would allow that. It is his land and he still lives there.

imo

 

[~n/t~]

It took this case 3 years to go to trial but only lasted 2 weeks.

I have a feeling Holly won't get justice for quite a while.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/24979714/proposed-law-would-allow-murder-victims-photos

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Pardon me for :lurk: and not participating. Just wanted to offer some thoughts.

<snip>
"Authorities have not said whether her body has been found, but prosecutors say they believe Bobo died during the kidnapping, snuffing out the family's hopes that she could be alive."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/06/holly-bobo-student-death-tn/6136361/

IMO they could not make that determination that it was during the kidnapping unless it was based on the age of remains they found. Otherwise there is the possibility she was kept alive and murdered recently, especially if they had no physical evidence. Blood on a knife or other indications would not give a timeline. IMO

I believe they told the family but would not make it public until after anthropological and DNA testing is done which could be months. IMO

I believe the Brays rolled over on ZA with exact information which prompted the assault on Amber Bray While her brother was being investigated/interrogated re the pearl heist.

MOO

The entire time she was alive is considered "the kidnapping". So, hypothetically, if she died a year later in captivity it would still be the same thing. Kidnapping does not mean just the physical act of taking her away from her home.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I would have thought by now someone local or MSM would have gone by Zach's property to see where LE used the backhoe to dig. I believe they said the backhoe came out "muddy" to me meaning it was used to dig deeper than shovels would be used. Was it near a well? To me that information would be telling.

I did some reading at the local Topix page. But almost all of that does not seem useful to me. It takes me a bottle of cheap wine to read all that. IMO what a free for all, lol.

JMO's

Wasnt also the "backhoe" clarified and shown in pictures to be more like a Bobcat lifter and not a big excavator? Media hype and distortion...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you. Agreed, but the phraseology used by District Attorney General Hansel McCadams;
&#8220;We believe we can prove that she was taken forcefully from her home without her consent,&#8221; District Attorney General Hansel McCadams said Wednesday. &#8220;Based on the evidence that we have before us, we also feel that she was killed in the perpetration of that kidnapping.&#8221; (BBM)

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/2...arrests-possible-after-first-suspect-indicted

"perpetration..." sounds to me that he is talking about that day, so a general condition forensics can put on remains - 1-2 years, 2-3 years, etc - coupled with a sworn testimony by a possible witness or accomplice would give them the evidence the grand jury would need to indict him on those specific charges?

MOO

I do realize it can be confusing based on his wordings but if you go by what 'aggravated kidnapping' is when it is applied to this case it means that indeed she was murdered during the time the crime of kidnapping was being perpetrated upon Holly. The perpetration of kidnapping begins the second he kidnapped her until the time she was actually murdered. That could mean hours, days, weeks when she was held captive (kidnapped) by ZA.

He is saying they have evidence that shows that ZA is the one that did kidnap her and kept her against her will and at some point during the felony act of kidnapping Holly was subsequently murdered.

Imo, I don't think Holly was murdered quickly. I wish I did feel that way, so I would know her suffering did not go on for days or weeks but I don't believe it.

Yes, of course her murder happened at some point in time when she was being held kidnapped by ZA, but I don't think it was quickly or even that same day. I think she was taken to another location and brutalized for a long period of time.

Yes, if a credible eye witness testifies then they can offer a time, and date she was finally murdered, but an anthropologist or medical forensic examiner will only be able to give a guesstimate of ranges and cant be specific. Even when bodies are located right away it is hard to pin point the exact TOD unless the victim has eaten prior to being murdered and still has stomach contents at time of autopsy. But this is not the case here.

All the DA has to prove BARD is ZA is the one that kidnapped her and during the time she was being held kidnapped ..........he did at some point murder her. They do not have to prove when she died or even how she was murdered.

IMO

 

[goldiegirl]

Pardon me for :lurk: and not participating. Just wanted to offer some thoughts.

<snip>
"Authorities have not said whether her body has been found, but prosecutors say they believe Bobo died during the kidnapping, snuffing out the family's hopes that she could be alive."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/06/holly-bobo-student-death-tn/6136361/

IMO they could not make that determination that it was during the kidnapping unless it was based on the age of remains they found. Otherwise there is the possibility she was kept alive and murdered recently, especially if they had no physical evidence. Blood on a knife or other indications would not give a timeline. IMO

I believe they told the family but would not make it public until after anthropological and DNA testing is done which could be months. IMO

I believe the Brays rolled over on ZA with exact information which prompted the assault on Amber Bray While her brother was being investigated/interrogated re the pearl heist.

MOO

Welcome, thank you for coming out of lurkdome!

I see your point, but regardless of when she was killed, even if it WAS recent, it was still technically during the kidnapping, since he took her against her will and as long as she was still with him then the kidnapping never ended.

 

[jggordo]

This is one of the articles where they were discussing the "small bobcat excavator". I'm not sure it shows a picture here. But IIRC the one I did see in another article it appeared to be a "backhoe". One that is like the one used next door to me when they dug the foundation footings. There is also arial video about the search from that day about sifting and such. Been awhile since I had seen this

JMO's

http://apmobile.worldnow.com/story/...arrants-in-connection-with-bobo-disappearance

 

[Foxfire]

Wasnt also the "backhoe" clarified and shown in pictures to be more like a Bobcat lifter and not a big excavator? Media hype and distortion...

http://wreg.com/2014/03/02/holly-bobo-case-day-3-of-tbi-search-on-adams-lane/

Mar 2, 2014 - ... Holly Bobo Case: Day 3 of TBI Search on Adams Lane ... to Zachary Adams' property on Adams Lane, scouring every inch just like they ... People nearby spotted a backhoe used for digging on the back of it, before it turned down the street
<sniped & BBM>

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Yeah but what does it look like? Is it a backhoe used to dig 40 foot deep trenches or something like you would use to dig up a tree stump? If it matters?

 

[Steleheart]

Thank you all.
I think my original point was that they have actual remains, measurable, testable, etc and not just circumstantial or here-say evidence in order to get the indictment and for the family to accept the fact.
I don't think it's important how old the remains are, in fact, for a trial to go forward. I think I expressed it incorrectly.

 

[Dr. Know?]

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...Holly Bobo -TN-/030214towed-backhoe.jpg.html


Technically, I think it's a small trackhoe. jmo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you all.
I think my original point was that they have actual remains, measurable, testable, etc and not just circumstantial or here-say evidence in order to get the indictment and for the family to accept the fact.
I don't think it's important how old the remains are, in fact, for a trial to go forward. I think I expressed it incorrectly.

I certainly agree with you.

I also believe they have found all or parts of Holly's remains.

That is the only way the Bobo family would be convinced beyond all doubt that Holly has been murdered.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...Holly Bobo -TN-/030214towed-backhoe.jpg.html


Technically, I think it's a small trackhoe. jmo

Looks like that to me Dr. Know.

And if it left the property muddy they sure dug up the earth for some specific reason.

IMO