Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #4 ***ARRESTS***

[Foxfire]

Re BBM + JMO

What I find so crazy is the strangeness of the trouble these people get in.
Listing just a few things since I have followed this case from the beginning:

Mushrooms
Pearl Heists
Kidnapping
Murder
Suicides
Pastors beating people up at Weddings + person died (did I remember this right?)
Meth (this is not really that strange since lots of places have this problem)
Fights
Robberies + Thefts

Just not sure if this is your average small town with nothing to do so people get in trouble and do crazy things OR is this place have something more serious going on.

Just seems to have more than its share of issues for a small town.

<BBM For Focus>

RE: Small Town Issues;

Hatfield, a month ago, I would prolly have agreed with you.. but times they are a changin..
Since the HB case has been caught up in the slow wheels of TN justice. I have been focusing on a couple of other cases. Both are very horrific crimes that happened in small rural towns; one in OK, and another abduction/murder/decapitation in Putnam Co., GA, not far from where I live. Population 6,500 - rural/farmers; very similar to Decatur County, TN in many ways.
Join us.. We could use the help..>

Seems, back in the 90s the Newaubian Cult & their 500 members moved their operation down from NY/MD PA etc., & 'The Devil came down to GA'..
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/crime/2014/03/06/1955218/

87 year old Shirley(abducted/murdered) & 88 Year old Russel(WW II Vet) Dermond(murdered/beheaded/head missing)
Found Deceased GA - Shirley Dermond, 87, Putnam County, 2-4 May 2014 #5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[reedus23]

Any word on when Austin's next hearing is?

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Please keep this thread alive, even if a court case-based thread is opened. This mystery is far from resolved.

 

[Suthrnqt]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Please keep this thread alive, even if a court case-based thread is opened. This mystery is far from resolved.

Hey Mr. N. A while back you suggested there could other peeps involved. Any hints which way I should be looking? TIA

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

What if the Holly Bobo case actually revolves around (read my timeline) someone who was obsessed with her? Someone who was NOT a usual suspect with a loooooonng rap sheet? You know, motive, means, and opportunity. I see weak motives with all of the mentioned names. When you tell a joke, it helps to have a punch line. When you tell a story, it helps to have a point. And when you commit a crime, it helps to have a sensible motive.

The solution of a crime is NOT about revenge OR justice OR convenience. It is instead about an accurate scientific finding of facts, determined without emotion or trickery.

Sleuth On!

 

[Mr. Noatak]

Hey Mr. N. A while back you suggested there could other peeps involved. Any hints which way I should be looking? TIA

My opinions only, no facts here:

I hate to say this on Websleuths, but you have to revisit 'other' less-credible Parsons-area threads for the 16 months after Holly Bobo disappeared. I read thousands of these posts. Also, pay attention to where Holly's lunch bag was found. The geographic location of this item is significant to developing alternate theories.

The current situation requires us to accept that Holly's lunch bag was tossed randomly at that location. Why? Based upon my timeline, Holly was likely still in the kidnapper's or kidnappers' vehicle when the lunch bag was tossed. I cannot accept that we have this clever duo or trio of druggie kidnappers who decide to throw evidence out the vehicle window when the most critical evidence (victim) is still with him or them in the vehicle. This evidence would logically have been taken to the hideout and burned in the stove, unless something is amiss with the logic of the official interpretation.

Let me explain further- you kidnap Miss Jane Doe who has a cell phone, purse, lunch bag, books, etc., in order to take her away to your place, without being seen or caught. First, you irrationally insist that she take all of this incriminating evidence with her, rather than leave it hidden close to, or at the abduction scene. THEN, you throw some of the evidence out of your vehicle window while driving your kidnap victim to your place. THEN, days later, you take some of the remaining evidence and plant it near to where your victim attends school. Does this make sense? To me, this is a story without a point (emphasized by Steve Martin in the Airplane scene with John Candy in the movie Planes, Trains, and Automobiles).

Sleuth On!

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Anybody who has not seen the BBC Sherlock Holmes episode with Jeremy Brett (not the recent or ancient fake versions of the master detective) about "The Second Stain" should put it at the very top of their "to watch" list.

Trust me, it will give you inspiration.

 

[Vaedur]

Ditto on the good catch.

We have to remember its a relatively small town and its not surprising if a lot of people have mutual friends or acquaintances.

My wife is from a very small town very similar. When I met her (she was about 20) she was still going to these crazy parties where everyone would ride their 4 wheelers into the woods and go nuts. The thing is, EVERYONE who was 14-22 in a 20 minute drive would be there. Everyone went for different reasons, had their own groups. But they all knew each other. Not everyone liked each other. Not everyone got completely wasted there. Being at party does not make you bad, it's what you do there. It's not like some older people who forget those days picture in their head. My wife is a nurse, was a strait A student in nursing school at the time. Drinking also doesn't make her bad, it makes her NORMAL at that age.

To think "she's a good kid" makes sense and to think "she wouldn't have gone to any of ZA's parties" to me does not. In my mind they HAD to have known eachother to some degree.

 

[Foxfire]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I hate to say this on Websleuths, but you have to revisit 'other' less-credible Parsons-area threads for the 16 months after Holly Bobo disappeared. I read thousands of these posts. Also, pay attention to where Holly's lunch bag was found. The geographic location of this item is significant to developing alternate theories.

The current situation requires us to accept that Holly's lunch bag was tossed randomly at that location. Why? Based upon my timeline, Holly was likely still in the kidnapper's or kidnappers' vehicle when the lunch bag was tossed. I cannot accept that we have this clever duo or trio of druggie kidnappers who decide to throw evidence out the vehicle window when the most critical evidence (victim) is still with him or them in the vehicle. This evidence would logically have been taken to the hideout and burned in the stove, unless something is amiss with the logic of the official interpretation.

Let me explain further- you kidnap Miss Jane Doe who has a cell phone, purse, lunch bag, books, etc., in order to take her away to your place, without being seen or caught. First, you irrationally insist that she take all of this incriminating evidence with her, rather than leave it hidden close to, or at the abduction scene. THEN, you throw some of the evidence out of your vehicle window while driving your kidnap victim to your place. THEN, days later, you take some of the remaining evidence and plant it near to where your victim attends school. Does this make sense? To me, this is a story without a point (emphasized by Steve Martin in the Airplane scene with John Candy in the movie Planes, Trains, and Automobiles).

Sleuth On!

<BBM for Focus>

Mr. Noatak, imo it is likely that the abductor; ZA, did not know there was a 911 call placed until hearing first responding LE's sirens in or around 5 forks, which were dispatched from two counties; HCSO/DCSO.
Imo, ZA hid in the woods, and waited in this area until the 1st responding LE had passed. Like bees on honey, all LEOs were en-route to the abduction site/Swan Johnson rd., due to the lack of a working pre-abduction plan in place by either sheriff's department.

Hansel/Gretel; the lunch bag was placed there by HB as a trail of crumbs, as was the duct tape found nearby, and the school papers, receipts, etc., from her book bag, found by searchers in the woods adjacent to ZA's property, imo.. HB was a fighter. She fought her abductors with mind, body, and spirit, hoping for a rescue, imo.. Imo, not only was the perp/s following the investigation, but they would have likely shared the info of the determined volunteer searches with HB, imo. The dots were not connected due to the silence & mis-info, and HB's rescue tragically never came...



The trail of items/evidence led straight to Adams Ln/ZA's residence, imo...

 

[Kimster]

My wife is from a very small town very similar. When I met her (she was about 20) she was still going to these crazy parties where everyone would ride their 4 wheelers into the woods and go nuts. The thing is, EVERYONE who was 14-22 in a 20 minute drive would be there. Everyone went for different reasons, had their own groups. But they all knew each other. Not everyone liked each other. Not everyone got completely wasted there. Being at party does not make you bad, it's what you do there. It's not like some older people who forget those days picture in their head. My wife is a nurse, was a strait A student in nursing school at the time. Drinking also doesn't make her bad, it makes her NORMAL at that age.

To think "she's a good kid" makes sense and to think "she wouldn't have gone to any of ZA's parties" to me does not. In my mind they HAD to have known eachother to some degree.

I'm from a small town and it was much the same. Just because a young person was there, it didn't mean they were "partiers". They might be with a friend who was looking for someone, or a variety of reasons.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Do you think, that we will see the scheduling order for Zach Adams when he appears in court..when is it... June 4th or so? Can someone remind me, so we can put that in court appearances too.

:seeya:


A Status Hearing for ZA is scheduled for this Wednesday, June 4 -- 1:00 p.m.


As to the Scheduling Order for ZA:

JMO but I think one will be issued for ZA as one was issued for JA.

But what is going to be interesting is IF the Judge decides to try both ZA and JA together -- or try them separately ...

And add to that the possibility of a third defendant ... and maybe more :scared:

:moo:

 

[goldenbear]

I hope Holly Bobo is found. If she is unburied the animals will scatter her remains in all directions.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

<BBM for Focus>

Mr. Noatak, imo it is likely that the abductor; ZA, did not know there was a 911 call placed until hearing first responding LE's sirens in or around 5 forks, which were dispatched from two counties; HCSO/DCSO.
Imo, ZA hid in the woods, and waited in this area until the 1st responding LE had passed. Like bees on honey, all LEOs were en-route to the abduction site/Swan Johnson rd., due to the lack of a working pre-abduction plan in place by either sheriff's department.

Hansel/Gretel; the lunch bag was placed there by HB as a trail of crumbs, as was the duct tape found nearby, and the school papers, receipts, etc., from her book bag, found by searchers in the woods adjacent to ZA's property, imo.. HB was a fighter. She fought her abductors with mind, body, and spirit, hoping for a rescue, imo.. Imo, not only was the perp/s following the investigation, but they would have likely shared the info of the determined volunteer searches with HB, imo. The dots were not connected due to the silence & mis-info, and HB's rescue tragically never came...



The trail of items/evidence led straight to Adams Ln/ZA's residence, imo...

My opinions only, no facts here:

I do agree that the kidnapper(s) left the main road and went into the woods shortly after driving away from the abduction site. This could have been after hearing sirens, or it was part of the original plan. I think that her remains could be near the junction of Five Forks and Swan Johnson roads, OR near certain ATV trails in the Bible Hill area.

But, I don't think the kidnapper(s) would allow Holly to toss evidence out of the getaway vehicle. This would be immediately noticed. Furthermore, I suspect that Holly was probably tied up, and just maybe- not even in the vehicle when the lunch bag was tossed!

To me, the evidence trail smacks of one perpetrator, and not a committee of perpetrators. The lunch bag could be a clue to the geographic location of the perpetrator, whereas the "Easter evidence" is just too convenient and appears to have been planted later.

If news reports are to be believed, the current main suspect's property was searched very early-on and nothing was found. If a search three years later has turned up evidence, there are some questions to be answered. Now I am hearing that an ex-boyfriend of Holly is facing kidnapping and assault charges in a separate case. Can you imagine the field day that competent defense attorneys would have with these and other details?

I cannot deny that this case is still very complicated, with lots of possible interpretations.

 

[Tugela]

<BBM for Focus>

Mr. Noatak, imo it is likely that the abductor; ZA, did not know there was a 911 call placed until hearing first responding LE's sirens in or around 5 forks, which were dispatched from two counties; HCSO/DCSO.
Imo, ZA hid in the woods, and waited in this area until the 1st responding LE had passed. Like bees on honey, all LEOs were en-route to the abduction site/Swan Johnson rd., due to the lack of a working pre-abduction plan in place by either sheriff's department.

Hansel/Gretel; the lunch bag was placed there by HB as a trail of crumbs, as was the duct tape found nearby, and the school papers, receipts, etc., from her book bag, found by searchers in the woods adjacent to ZA's property, imo.. HB was a fighter. She fought her abductors with mind, body, and spirit, hoping for a rescue, imo.. Imo, not only was the perp/s following the investigation, but they would have likely shared the info of the determined volunteer searches with HB, imo. The dots were not connected due to the silence & mis-info, and HB's rescue tragically never came...



The trail of items/evidence led straight to Adams Ln/ZA's residence, imo...

If she was abducted she would have been restrained in some way, and not in a position to drop things along the route.

Noatak does make a good point...why were these things scattered about like that? And why would an abductor allow her to carry all that stuff in the first place? It would have been stashed away discretely almost immediately so as not to hamper the escape.

One might argue that it was staged to LOOK like an abduction, and if that is the case then why?

 

[steelman]

I hope the D.A. has a lot more to go on other than Zach Adams brother saying he saw Holly at Zach's house after the abduction. It's been nagging at me a lot lately that the cops may have put way too much faith in Dylan Adams stories.

I watched the Autry interview where he claims that the brothers basically hated one another. Even if there is just a hint of truth in what he said, it might be enough explain the cops swarming Zach's property and the subsequent arrest. His brother sets him up for a fall, and the cops oblige.

But if this turns out to be dishonor among thieves, I'm not too sure a jury is going to buy into it. I guess it all hinges on what physical evidence they found on his property that might tie him to the crime. I hope it just isn't TOO circumstantial.

 

[Foxfire]

If she was abducted she would have been restrained in some way, and not in a position to drop things along the route.

Noatak does make a good point...why were these things scattered about like that? And why would an abductor allow her to carry all that stuff in the first place? It would have been stashed away discretely almost immediately so as not to hamper the escape.

One might argue that it was staged to LOOK like an abduction, and if that is the case then why?

Tugela, If they staged for a period of time where the lunch bag was located, with the two sandwiches inside, near 5 forks. The restraints may have been removed temporarily if HB was considered to be in compliance by ZA. Imo, zip ties were likely used as restraints, and the ties around her ankles may have been left in place to prevent escape.. Imo, ZA likely had a weapon too; firearm/knife.

The lunch bag was found in the same vicinity of where the duct tape with the blonde hair attached was located. The TBI/LE searched this area with scrutiny, yet did not share publicly, what if anything was found.

If HB had left the items at the abduction site, it would have been obvious that she had been abducted. By removing the items, it would be perceived that HB may have caught a ride to school with a friend, imo, to buy time/deflection..

ZA, was/is very calculating, deflective, creative, and manipulative..a cagey sadistic psychopath.. jmo

 

[Foxfire]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I do agree that the kidnapper(s) left the main road and went into the woods shortly after driving away from the abduction site. This could have been after hearing sirens, or it was part of the original plan. I think that her remains could be near the junction of Five Forks and Swan Johnson roads, OR near certain ATV trails in the Bible Hill area.

But, I don't think the kidnapper(s) would allow Holly to toss evidence out of the getaway vehicle. This would be immediately noticed. Furthermore, I suspect that Holly was probably tied up, and just maybe- not even in the vehicle when the lunch bag was tossed!

To me, the evidence trail smacks of one perpetrator, and not a committee of perpetrators. The lunch bag could be a clue to the geographic location of the perpetrator, whereas the "Easter evidence" is just too convenient and appears to have been planted later.

If news reports are to be believed, the current main suspect's property was searched very early-on and nothing was found. If a search three years later has turned up evidence, there are some questions to be answered. Now I am hearing that an ex-boyfriend of Holly is facing kidnapping and assault charges in a separate case. Can you imagine the field day that competent defense attorneys would have with these and other details?

I cannot deny that this case is still very complicated, with lots of possible interpretations.

Mr. Noatak, imo, investigators likely located visuals in the 3 year search; photos/videos/selfies. It is fairly obvious that ZA is narcissist. He would have kept some type of trophy for bragging rights, imo. ZA likely let his guard down after 3 years had passed and showed the trophy/s to others, imo.

 

[OldSteve]

As to why (s) would let someone toss evidence; I think of Sierra Lamar's case where her cellphone was tossed, and her Juicy Purse was also left behind.

I think with the apparent planing that went into this, the (s) would want to keep Holly captive for days or more....

 

[reedus23]

I hope the D.A. has a lot more to go on other than Zach Adams brother saying he saw Holly at Zach's house after the abduction. It's been nagging at me a lot lately that the cops may have put way too much faith in Dylan Adams stories.

I watched the Autry interview where he claims that the brothers basically hated one another. Even if there is just a hint of truth in what he said, it might be enough explain the cops swarming Zach's property and the subsequent arrest. His brother sets him up for a fall, and the cops oblige.

But if this turns out to be dishonor among thieves, I'm not too sure a jury is going to buy into it. I guess it all hinges on what physical evidence they found on his property that might tie him to the crime. I hope it just isn't TOO circumstantial.

I have to believe they have more than just someone's word. It would make no sense to me to make an arrest all these years later just based on someone's word when they could have done that right from the outset. Lord knows there were enough people throwing others under the bus. They could have had their pick if all they were going to move on was someone's word. I think the fact they continued to wait and didn't act on peoples' word for all these years tells me they have more. How much more? Time will tell.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Another thing the Defense will have a strong argument on- the witness description of the kidnapper does not match either of the currently-jailed suspects. I have seen this explained away (the main suspect has lost weight recently, witness descriptions are unreliable, etc.), but this is a BIG deal for the Defense. With Holly for comparative scale, her brother very likely made a fairly accurate estimate of her kidnapper's height and weight. His and the FBI's longstanding description of 5’ 8” to 6’ 0” tall, weighing 200 pounds cannot be trivialized in a court of law. Since 6 feet is the maximum allowable height, the kidnapper is very likely shorter than 6 feet tall. The kidnapping suspect sounds like a short to medium-height stocky individual. Neither of the two currently jailed suspects fits this description. If I were a juror, this detail alone would create significant doubt in my mind. When you think about the minimum height estimate of the kidnapper (5' 8"), that is only 5 inches taller than Holly Bobo! And there is something else- men in the woods may be wearing boots with 1 to 2" of heel, insole, and socks. So, if anything, the kidnapper could even be a tad shorter than described.

Somehow, I think that if either of the currently jailed suspects (one at 6' 3" and 170 pounds and the other at 6' 7" and 250 pounds) were the kidnapper that Holly's brother saw, his description would have been decidedly different.

Look, the authorities could have arrested a 5' 6" 300 pound man and a 7 foot tall 150 pound man, and the assumption of guilt would still be there. And that is the problem, the assumption of guilt.