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LOL!!
That's not unpaid. That's one of the best paid positions around. Even if there's no money involved.
Thank you.
Yep ... following yer bliss don't lead ya to the bank
LOL!!
That's not unpaid. That's one of the best paid positions around. Even if there's no money involved.
Thank you.
Yep ... following yer bliss don't lead ya to the bank
<rsbm>The roof is also covered with the scent of chlorine that is added from high a-top the water tanks on a regular basis in order to purify the water -- and may be stored on the roof? Can the odor of chlorine mask living scent in an urban setting?
<rsbm>
Where'd all that come from? It was said that the water is chlorinated water that comes in from the city system. Even if they added chlorine in the top of the tanks, the roof would not be covered with chlorine. It's stored on the roof?
have no idea how they missed her, to be honest. Unless she didn't walk up there on her own, and they only used a tracking or trailing dog initially.
So... I suspect she was in the water source shortly after her disappearance; they tried to track her, which was ineffective because that scent was gone.
The HR scent would still have remained- but perhaps LE did not have access to an HRD dog?
have no idea how they missed her, to be honest. Unless she didn't walk up there on her own, and they only used a tracking or trailing dog initially.
So... I suspect she was in the water source shortly after her disappearance; they tried to track her, which was ineffective because that scent was gone.
The HR scent would still have remained- but perhaps LE did not have access to an HRD dog?
I'm asking whether the roof would be contaminated with the scent of chlorine relative to a dog's nose if chlorine was added on a regular basis to the water tanks, and maybe stored on the roof. I'm not sure where the chlorine for the water tanks is stored which is why I used a question mark. What's common sense tell you? Do you think they carry it up from the basement, or do you think there's a storage place up on the roof, near to the place where they'd use it? And they do use it.
Water tanks build up gunk, and so they have to be maintained on a regular basis - washed out and chlorinated.
In addition, the city of Los Angeles allows chlorine to be added to water tanks in order to keep the water safe to drink. As observed by noodled - one of the tanks appears to have bleach spill-over. Do you agree?
-- This is from the municipal code:
"11.38.440 - Chlorination—Recordkeeping and testing.
All suppliers of domestic water, when required by the director to use continuous chlorination, shall add chlorine in sufficient quantity to insure the bacteriological safety of the water at all points in the distribution system. A free-chlorine residual shall be maintained at all times at sampling points approved by the director. Routine chlorine residual tests shall be made daily, and permanent records kept of such tests. Copies of the records shall be furnished the director upon request.
(Ord. 7583 Part 3 Ch. 5 § 511, 1959.) "
( Thanks Bessie! )
11.38.410 - Sanitary defects and health hazards—Correction.
When it is determined by the director that a sanitary defect or a health hazard exists, the director may order whatever steps he deems necessary to insure the safety of the water supply for the protection of the public health.
11.38.430 - Chlorination—Required when—Procedures.
Upon notice by the director to the owner or operator of a water supply system, such owner or operator shall thoroughly cleanse and chlorinate any reservoir, tank, well, spring or pipe used in the production, distribution or storage of any domestic water or water used for human consumption, as directed by the director, to insure the safety of the water. When chemical disinfection is employed, the dosage or rates of application shall at all times be sufficient to provide adequately disinfected water at all points of the distribution system. The director may order continuous automatic disinfection for any water supply when, in his opinion, such treatment is necessary for the protection of the public health.
If they brought an air scent K9 up to the roof (OR an HRD K9, OR a cross trained dog) I have no idea how they missed her, to be honest. Unless she didn't walk up there on her own, and they only used a tracking or trailing dog initially.
"This means likely she was carried out and nude when put in the tank....also most likely already deceased."
I didn't draw the same conclusion from reading Oriah's comments.
Oriah seems to be saying that if someone came into contact with EL, even if it was to remove her clothes, and/or put her in a bag, alive or dead, that person would have acquired enough of EL's scent to track it up to the roof, in order for them to put the body in the tank.
I would appreciate some clarification from Oriah on this.
Has LE stated when or on what date they used a dog to search for EL on the roof? Or how many days after her disappearance?
Jan 31 2013 Elisa disappeared (some account say early morning hours of Feb To our knowledge, the last recorded siting of her was as she left the elevator inside the Cecil Hotel.
Feb 6 2013 LAPD went public with her disappearance and said the hotel had been searched with dogs (Note: specific date of search and type of dog are not known)
If her scent led to the base of one of the accesses to the roof, you'd think they would have done a more thorough search of the roof, including around and looking into the tanks.
But they didn't look too hard.
Did LE know from the video that she was at the elevator on the 14th floor about the time she disappeared, and tried to track her scent from there, or was it only a few weeks later that they had the video? And didn't try any more tracking, or couldn't find any scent?
Yes, clarification would be very helpful. I was not concluding but rather making inferences based on Oriah's expertise.
My understanding of what Oriah is saying is that because scent area dogs and human remains dogs can hone right in scents without needing a trail it is more probable that LE used the most basic form of SAR, the tracking dog, which requires a direct ground trail from the hotel to the tank.
He says more sophisticated abilities like air scenting and human remain scenting dogs would have surely found her, so they must have used only tracking dogs. Those dogs did not pick up on her presence because she didn't walk up there on her own.
I would infer from this that she was carried. It is unlikely that the perp would have scent of EL on him at a ground level and if she walked with him, why would there be nothing for the dog to track? If she were still alive at that time, he would need her to be quiet and compliant.
My other inference on clothing is off base because it would require an air scenting dog to locate every place she was on the roof.
At the very least, if I understand Oriah and have my facts right on trailing, this may rule out suicide or accidental death because a tracking dog would have nailed a direct path for EL if she had done that by her check out on Feb 1st. Not sure?
Seems like LE could have used more sophisticated locating measures as she was missing nearly a week.
Hi Oriah, thanks for sharing your expertise with us.
I am still not entirely clear on this issue. I do not question whether HRD type of dogs could locate her body. I'm am sure of that, as human remains continuously gives off odor. But I am wondering whether tracking dogs could trail her living scent that was left after 5 days on a concrete roof. As you know, the record for trailing is 13 days, and this was in ideal conditions, moist vegetation (odor of crushed plants), and they used cadaver dogs to find three souls deceased. According to one website, most successful attempts at tracking living scent are those trails which exist a few hours to a few days old, with worse chances in urban settings.
I'm concerned about this particular search, because the water tank area forms a natural sun/wind barrier to hold scent, and with all the structure underneath and in-between, including items such as a wooden ladder that she would have climbed, it seems an ideal place to improve ones chances if they were to locate a living scent so old.
But this area seems hard to climb in and out of, especially for dogs considering all the pipes and faucet handles that run both parallel and perpendicular to the ground. Would tracking dogs need to be hand-carried in or up ladders to be placed on the top of the tanks themselves -- or on top of the equipment room roof to improve chances?
The roof is also covered with the scent of chlorine that is added from high a-top the water tanks on a regular basis in order to purify the water -- and may be stored on the roof? Can the odor of chlorine mask living scent in an urban setting?
(Thanks sb, for your initiative.)