Houston- Adult, child injured in shooting at Joel Osteen’s Lakewood church

[JoeFromLB]

From everything I have read about the shooter she was in the US illegally, and not a US citizen. How could she legally buy a gun?

Good question!

 

[PrairieWind]

She was also abusing her son, but in our country violence in the household doesn't prevent anyone from buying a killing tool. Domestic abusers are still free to shop!

That is absolutely false. A domestic violence convictions is a federal prohibition against possessing a firearm. But there has to be a conviction. So in answering your other question about what other questions I had, they mirror some of your own. Why, given the accusations that we have heard from neighbors, was she not convicted of more serious crimes that would have prevented her from possessing a gun. The custody issue is a mess and I'm not sure what we will learn, but there are certainly big questions there. What really was going on with the child? She had mental health issues, but did these rise to a level that would be reportable? They should have been relevant in custody processes regarding the boy. When was the last CPS follow up on the case?

 

[PrairieWind]

From everything I have read about the shooter she was in the US illegally, and not a US citizen. How could she legally buy a gun?

This is one thing I can't seem to find an answer on. She apparently was not born in the US, but now I can't find anything about her immigration status. If she is a legal immigrant, she can possess a firearm, but if she is not documented, she cannot possess, let alone purchase a firearm. But again, I can't seem to find any information on this right now.

 

[Eli9]

This is one thing I can't seem to find an answer on. She apparently was not born in the US, but now I can't find anything about her immigration status. If she is a legal immigrant, she can possess a firearm, but if she is not documented, she cannot possess, let alone purchase a firearm. But again, I can't seem to find any information on this right now.

@Elley Mae posted this article a few days ago -

Suspected Lakewood Church shooter Genesse Moreno had criminal history, mental health issues, documents say

The past of the suspected Lakewood Church shooter includes a well-documented history of mental health issues, according to an ABC News review of documents and records.

abcnews.go.com

There is so much to read from that article that I could literally quote it ALL but this part is about her immigration status

Her son "has been reticent to file the criminal charges against his wife; now his former wife because, as she is not a US citizen," the mother-in-law's affidavit said, and "as she already has had criminal convictions, she would likely be deported if convicted of the 3rd degree felony that stems from filing a fraudulent birth certificate. He told [Houston Police] detectives this is not what he wants for the woman he loved and married and the mother of his child. He wants her to live, he told police, where she can get quality mental healthcare. He doesn’t hate her; he hates her mental illness and her refusal to treat it."

 

[Eli9]

Suspected Lakewood Church shooter Genesse Moreno had criminal history, mental health issues, documents say

The past of the suspected Lakewood Church shooter includes a well-documented history of mental health issues, according to an ABC News review of documents and records.

abcnews.go.com

In January 2020, Moreno "pulled an unlocked and loaded gun from underneath a seat in the car and pointed it at the head" of Carranza, "only hours after a first unlocked and loaded handgun was found" by their then-3-year-old son "in his own diaper bag," according to the ex-mother-in-law's affidavit.

When Carranza attempted to unlock his son from the car seat and remove him from the situation "as planned" with local authorities, Moreno "drove off" with the back door still "open" and their son not in his car seat, the affidavit said. Moreno "was stopped by Texas State Patrol after eluding them on back roads and then refusing to heed lights and sirens. Thus she had placed Samuel in imminent danger."

 

[PrairieWind]

@Elley Mae posted this article a few days ago -

Suspected Lakewood Church shooter Genesse Moreno had criminal history, mental health issues, documents say

The past of the suspected Lakewood Church shooter includes a well-documented history of mental health issues, according to an ABC News review of documents and records.

abcnews.go.com

There is so much to read from that article that I could literally quote it ALL but this part is about her immigration status

Wow, there is a lot to unpack from that article, isn't there?!!
But in regard to our current conversations, she appears to not be a citizen but could still be here legally in some capacity. But it is important to note that family and others were reluctant to press certain issues for fear she would be deported. Ugh!!! But that same concept was allowing her to keep firearms. Was this also part of the reason the Harris and Montgomery County District Attorney offices didn't pursue tougher charges/convictions? The domestic allegations (and as far as I can tell from this article they were just allegations) those should have been more than enough to get domestic violence charges, which if convicted, would have prevented firearm purchases. But they also do draw attention to what the CPS people were doing with the case. This article seems to allege that she part of her custody deal was she was not to have firearms, but she clearly did and was flaunting it.

 

[Eli9]

Wow, there is a lot to unpack from that article, isn't there?!!
But in regard to our current conversations, she appears to not be a citizen but could still be here legally in some capacity. But it is important to note that family and others were reluctant to press certain issues for fear she would be deported. Ugh!!! But that same concept was allowing her to keep firearms. Was this also part of the reason the Harris and Montgomery County District Attorney offices didn't pursue tougher charges/convictions? The domestic allegations (and as far as I can tell from this article they were just allegations) those should have been more than enough to get domestic violence charges, which if convicted, would have prevented firearm purchases. But they also do draw attention to what the CPS people were doing with the case. This article seems to allege that she part of her custody deal was she was not to have firearms, but she clearly did and was flaunting it.

Yes a lot in that article I hadn't read before.
I hadn't thought of her being here legally in some capacity so thanks for that. We know she forged her son's birth certificate so perhaps she also had pulled something similar to satisfy requirements for her gun purchases.

 

[Sundog]

@Elley Mae posted this article a few days ago -

Suspected Lakewood Church shooter Genesse Moreno had criminal history, mental health issues, documents say

The past of the suspected Lakewood Church shooter includes a well-documented history of mental health issues, according to an ABC News review of documents and records.

abcnews.go.com

There is so much to read from that article that I could literally quote it ALL but this part is about her immigration status

This is the only reference I have seen in the MSM related to the shooter's immigration status, but it is information provided from the shooter's ex and ex-mother in law, so it isn't official. The shooter may have been a permanent resident for all we know. I wonder if the ex-husband is a U.S. citizen or permanent resident.

 

[PrairieWind]

Yes a lot in that article I hadn't read before.
I hadn't thought of her being here legally in some capacity so thanks for that. We know she forged her son's birth certificate so perhaps she also had pulled something similar to satisfy requirements for her gun purchases.

The birth certificate thing is interesting. I'd like to know a little more there (though we may not get to). As an attorney I have seen quite a few cases where a mother makes "incorrect" statements to the hospital for a birth certificate, usually trying to keep the biological father off for various reasons. The use of aliases is also interesting. Is this intentionally fraudulent or is this the schizophrenia manifesting itself?

 

[Eli9]

This is the only reference I have seen in the MSM related to the shooter's immigration status, but it is information provided from the shooter's ex and ex-mother in law, so it isn't official. The shooter may have been a permanent resident for all we know. I wonder if the ex-husband is a U.S. citizen or permanent resident.

Yes, she has a very complicated history. I'm sure it's going to take a bit of time to go through it.

 

[housewife]

That is absolutely false. A domestic violence convictions is a federal prohibition against possessing a firearm. But there has to be a conviction. So in answering your other question about what other questions I had, they mirror some of your own. Why, given the accusations that we have heard from neighbors, was she not convicted of more serious crimes that would have prevented her from possessing a gun. The custody issue is a mess and I'm not sure what we will learn, but there are certainly big questions there. What really was going on with the child? She had mental health issues, but did these rise to a level that would be reportable? They should have been relevant in custody processes regarding the boy. When was the last CPS follow up on the case?

Does it have to be a criminal conviction? Getting a restraining order is just civil, right?
Thanks for your expertise!
I'm reading that sometimes actions that are significant enough to merit a protection order may not be sufficient for prosecutors to secure a criminal conviction.

Is this true? This concerns me.

"A ten-city study found 1/5 of homicide victims with temporary protective orders were murdered within twodays of obtaining the order; 1/3 were murdered within the first month."
Vittes, K. A. & Sorenson, S. B. (2008). Restraining orders among victims of intimate partner homicide. Injury Prevention, 14(1), 191-195

 

[housewife]

From everything I have read about the shooter she was in the US illegally, and not a US citizen. How could she legally buy a gun?

Non-commercial gun sellers (private citizen to citizen) are not required to be licensed or perform background checks. I can easily see someone looking the other way because they want to make the $ale.

MOD NOTE: While this is true in Texas and some other states, it is not true everywhere. Please make sure your posts are specific to this case.

 

[x_files]

Extremely sad case. To follow-up on other post(s), note that there were a lot of red flags & complaints re: this perp. Things should never have been allowed to escalate to this point. The system obviously failed here. I.e., this perp. was obviously a danger to others - long before this happened.

That being said, if this perp. had been put away because of their threatening actions over the years - <modsnip> You can't win.

Neighbors of Lakewood Church shooter detail years of 'hell,' police inaction: 'Only a matter of time'

Neighbors said the Lakewood Church shooter displayed swastikas, carried a rifle and gun cases to intimidate residents and filed false police reports.

www.yahoo.com

I think judges should face some kind of accountability when they make horrible decisions to put a child back into the hands of the abusers, the police can only do so much to help if judges keep making POOR judgments.

 

[x_files]

What questions still eat at you?
I want to know why she wasn't charged more harshly before? Swerving to hit people with your car should be attempted murder, or at least assault with a deadly weapon.
I want to know what the neighborhood women reported five months ago.
I want to know why they were afraid of retaliation after going to the media.
I want to know why CPS failed.

YES to all of it.
From the first attempt to hit someone with their car, she should have been ARRESTED.
CPS failed, they all FAILED.

 

[Sundog]

Yes, she has a very complicated history. I'm sure it's going to take a bit of time to go through it.

LE likely already know her status with regard to U.S. citizenship or permanent residency. That is pretty straight forward.

 

[PrairieWind]

LE likely already know her status with regard to U.S. citizenship or permanent residency. That is pretty straight forward.

I think Eli9 was referring to it taking a while for news reporting to get that information and sort it out.

 

[PrairieWind]

Does it have to be a criminal conviction? Getting a restraining order is just civil, right?
Thanks for your expertise!
I'm reading that sometimes actions that are significant enough to merit a protection order may not be sufficient for prosecutors to secure a criminal conviction.

Is this true? This concerns me.

"A ten-city study found 1/5 of homicide victims with temporary protective orders were murdered within twodays of obtaining the order; 1/3 were murdered within the first month."
Vittes, K. A. & Sorenson, S. B. (2008). Restraining orders among victims of intimate partner homicide. Injury Prevention, 14(1), 191-195

There a several questions here. A person convicted of a felony or domestic violence offense (even if a misdemeanor) is a "prohibited person" under federal law and connect possess, own or purchase a firearm. That prohibition requires a conviction. Now, while charged with many crimes, a bond condition may also prohibit a person from possessing a firearm. We discuss bond condition issues later if you like but not really relevant in this case. Under civil restraining orders, firearm possession can also be prohibited. This varies a lot by state in how this works. If you bring a domestic violence or stalking restraining order case (which are civil cases) against someone, that person can be prohibited from possessing. But those orders are temporary. A respondent will be given a chance to respond and answer. Even if a restraining order is in place, it again is temporary and will expire. To renew it requires new prohibited behavior by the respondent/defendant. Yes, there are actions that can get a restraining order that may not rise to a criminal prosecution. But these are totally different processes, standards, parties.

The article you cite has some good information. Unfortunately many people that obtain a restraining order and attacked shortly there after. A restraining order is a piece of paper. However, there is some misleading information in there as well. State laws very greatly and federal law is totally different in scope and jurisdiction.

 

[LadyL]

But why wasn’t he removed from the home by CPS?

I agree. I said all that earlier. Why did the judge grant her custody? etc. etc. etc. All the people that let her get away with this crap and stay in the country are to blame and it all starts with her husband.

 

[Tbone144]

As a Texas resident and gun owner and purchaser we still have to complete paperwork to purchase a handgun except for private sales. I’ve purchased from big box stores, small gun stores, shooting ranges and gun shows. The only easy part about it now is I have CHL that allows me easier purchase. They aren’t just handing them out when you come into the state. I’ve sold one handgun to my mother and went through the legal transfer to get it to her.

Guides: Gun Laws: Buying

This guide provides information on Texas and federal gun laws including: background checks, open carry, concealed carry, handgun licenses, restrictions for felons, and local regulation of firearms and shooting ranges.

guides.sll.texas.gov

As for her being a US citizen or not, I did find this which may be useful:

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics-ffl-tip-sheet-for-non-us-citizens-purchasing-firearms-august-2023.pdf/view

Because Texas.

 

[al66pine]

Yes a lot in that article I hadn't read before.
I hadn't thought of her being here legally in some capacity so thanks for that. We know she forged her son's birth certificate so perhaps she also had pulled something similar to satisfy requirements for her gun purchases.

@Eli9 Good grief. Not even 100 posts on this thread, and even backtracking, I can't find link to bit about FORGED BIRTH CERTIFICATE of son.

Eli9? Anyone? Thx.