How much does Jeremy know?

[hambirg]

[/B]

Most of the cases I have seen, where a child's death is covered up, are a case of NON-accidental death. Where the child is beaten, shaken, etc. I can not, off the top of my head, think of a case where there was a TRUE accidental death and the parents covered it up. This includes the case of JBR. According to the autopsy, JBR showed signs of long-term molestation. And whether she died from a blow to the head or asphyxiation, how could either one of those be considered an accident? To me, that would be homicide.

Yes, everyone reacts differently, but WHY is there an extreme variance from the norm in THIS case? If DB/JI are covering up an accidental death then there is something VERY wrong going on there, something no one knows about. And no, those 2 acting "weird" or whatever is not it. The majority of parents do not try to hide a TRUE accident.

JMO

This is why I don't think it was an "accident", in the true sense of the word. I think whatever happened may have been unintentional, but it was no accident. JMHO

 

[melissasmom]

This is why I don't think it was an "accident", in the true sense of the word. I think whatever happened may have been unintentional, but it was no accident. JMHO

Thank you for your response. I understand what you are saying. There can indeed be a difference between unintentional and accidental.

 

[norest4thewicked]

2 questions:

#1: WHY, if Lisa drowned in the bathtub, would DB/JI lay her on the floor, attempt to do CPR, and then when that didn't work-NOT call 911? Instead decide to hatch a scheme to dispose of her body and "stage" a kidnapping? I just don't understand what would be behind this. As, Dr. G said in the CA trial- when there is an accident, parents call 911- it's just what they do.

#2- Still wondering, where do the cell phones and the attempted vm acess, etc., fit into this? Including dialing MW's phone number?

2 answers...

#1: Simple. WHEN JI or DB started to do CPR on Lisa, they didn't know if they could save her or not. But, being an accidental drowning, they decide to try. Because they can't revive her, and knowing that this might bring closer scrutiny to DB's mothering style, JEREMY decides that this is what they are going to do. If Jeremy is going to fight for his son in court, he is going to fight for his son in all cases. This is why I think that Jeremy knows a lot more than some think he does.

#2: The cell phones are not on topic of this thread. When, and if I ever post over there, you can re-ask and I will be happy to answer.

 

[norest4thewicked]

This story actually fits with the question I asked in my post above. The mother's negligence caused the child to drown, BUT the authorities were still called. The parent(s) did not try to dispose of the child or claim a kidnapping.

Perhaps one of the parents was not trying to keep his/her child from a previous marriage.

 

[norest4thewicked]

[/B]

Most of the cases I have seen, where a child's death is covered up, are a case of NON-accidental death. Where the child is beaten, shaken, etc. I can not, off the top of my head, think of a case where there was a TRUE accidental death and the parents covered it up. This includes the case of JBR. According to the autopsy, JBR showed signs of long-term molestation. And whether she died from a blow to the head or asphyxiation, how could either one of those be considered an accident? To me, that would be homicide.

Yes, everyone reacts differently, but WHY is there an extreme variance from the norm in THIS case? If DB/JI are covering up an accidental death then there is something VERY wrong going on there, something no one knows about. And no, those 2 acting "weird" or whatever is not it. The majority of parents do not try to hide a TRUE accident.

JMO

This is true! I have seen MANY child abuse/missing/murdered cases, and I have NEVER in my life seen anything even remotely close to the way these two act...not even close! Perhaps you are right on with the thought at there is something VERY wrong going on with these two.

 

[vlpate]

[/B]

Most of the cases I have seen, where a child's death is covered up, are a case of NON-accidental death. Where the child is beaten, shaken, etc. I can not, off the top of my head, think of a case where there was a TRUE accidental death and the parents covered it up. This includes the case of JBR. According to the autopsy, JBR showed signs of long-term molestation.

The autopsy report took no position on the issue of whether there was prior sexual abuse. The autopsy is available online.

And whether she died from a blow to the head or asphyxiation, how could either one of those be considered an accident? To me, that would be homicide.

It's not the blow to the head that would be considered an accident, it would be killing her that would be an accident. If you slam your kid into a sink, she hits her head just right and dies, you didn't kill her on purpose, but you did knowingly push her to cause her harm - that's why SO many parents cover these "accidents" up.

everyone reacts differently, but WHY is there an extreme variance from the norm in THIS case? If DB/JI are covering up an accidental death then there is something VERY wrong going on there, something no one knows about. And no, those 2 acting "weird" or whatever is not it. The majority of parents do not try to hide a TRUE accident.

JMO

You're right, not a true accident like a child falling into the pool, or running out into the street. They cover their own arses when they go too far with an act of violence, or over-medicating, etc., the child. Why do parents cover for one another? Who knows, but it happens, most recent memory would be Jamie Ann Litton.

 

[melissasmom]

2 answers...

#1: Simple. WHEN JI or DB started to do CPR on Lisa, they didn't know if they could save her or not. But, being an accidental drowning, they decide to try. Because they can't revive her, and knowing that this might bring closer scrutiny to DB's mothering style, JEREMY decides that this is what they are going to do. If Jeremy is going to fight for his son in court, he is going to fight for his son in all cases. This is why I think that Jeremy knows a lot more than some think he does.

#2: The cell phones are not on topic of this thread. When, and if I ever post over there, you can re-ask and I will be happy to answer.

Well, all I have to say is that it is too bad that Jeremy apparently loves his son but not Lisa. I wonder why he would love one child and not the other?

 

[cityslick]

I get what you are saying, cityslick, but (how do I say this tactfully), I don't think that either of these parents are that swift. For all we know, JI has since taken the PG and has failed it. If he did, we would NEVER hear about it because, LE isn't talking to the media and the DT would absolutely keep that a secret. On the other hand, if he took it and passed it, the DT would be shouting it from the rooftops. There is no doubt about that.

I think that DB is one of those people who has a problem with lying/drinking and being a drama queen. She also watches a lot of missing children's cases, per her statements. I think that she knew that for her to deny a PG, it would look really bad. I actually think that she might have convinced herself that she could pass it because people with narcissistic personalities (which I believe she has) often feel that they can do things that others can't. That, coupled with the fact that she is not all that bright, makes me believe that she was probably surprised that she wasn't so convincing that she had passed it.

And, before I hear the comments about "how smart" the parents had to be to get away with all this...remember that it doesn't take even a median IQ to commit murder or, even less, have an accident occur.

I think that the accident happened, the two of them set it up between themselves, staged everything and made "D Day" be when JI came home from his night job. That wouldn't take any brains at all. All it would take is for them to stick to their story and act upset.

BBM

They did, on the Dr. P. show. That lead to the comment from LE saying they never told anyone about LDT's or even if they took them.

 

[norest4thewicked]

This is why I don't think it was an "accident", in the true sense of the word. I think whatever happened may have been unintentional, but it was no accident. JMHO

The ONLY thing that makes me think that this was an accident is the strange way that these two are joined at the hip. Also, I go back to the beginning when I supported and defended DB and maybe I just don't want to believe that she could intentionally kill little Lisa. As time has passed, and these parents do more and more damage to their image, I have come to accept that it is a possibility.

But, another reason that I think it was an accident and both were involved is that IF Lisa died as a result of something that DB did alone, (like shaking) I think that Jeremy would turn against DB to preserve his relationship with his son.

The scenario of it happening between 10:30 and whenever JI came home doesn't work for me. It just doesn't.

 

[norest4thewicked]

BBM

They did, on the Dr. P. show. That lead to the comment from LE saying they never told anyone about LDT's or even if they took them.

Well, we know that JT lied several times during that interview as well as others. I think that if JI had passed a PG, the DT would be having billboards put up and would be on every talk show in the country. His mentioning that with a bunch of other lies during the Dr. Phil show isn't what I really meant.

 

[vlpate]

This story actually fits with the question I asked in my post above. The mother's negligence caused the child to drown, BUT the authorities were still called. The parent(s) did not try to dispose of the child or claim a kidnapping.

The mother was asleep. What if she had found the baby first? Since she was responsible, she may not have called 911. Putting your 16 month in the tub and falling asleep is a crime, always.

When babies and toddlers drown in tubs, the caregiver usually goes to jail. Rightfully so.

DB could have disposed of BL's body before JI got home, and she's lying to him along with the rest of us and LE.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Well, all I have to say is that it is too bad that Jeremy apparently loves his son but not Lisa. I wonder why he would love one child and not the other?

Only Jeremy could answer that question for you. But, my thoughts on the matter is that once he knows that Lisa is gone, it THEN becomes a matter of preservation for himself and his son. I don't see it having anything to do with love.

 

[Sparklin]

I can answer those questions.....Jeremy was involved from the beginning. Jeremy is part of it. Watching the video again made me even firmer in my belief. Jeremy can't look at interviewers or cameras. Jeremy can't raise his eyes from the ground. Jeremy played a part in the disappearance of little Lisa.

to add..Jeremy is grief stricken, Jeremy is exhausted, Jeremy is overwhelmed, Jeremy is shy.

 

[melissasmom]

You're right, not a true accident like a child falling into the pool, or running out into the street. They cover their own arses when they go too far with an act of violence, or over-medicating, etc., the child. Why do parents cover for one another? Who knows, but it happens, most recent memory would be Jamie Ann Litton.

Snipped for space

But that is my point. An accidental drowning is an accident. Pushing your child so they hit their head and die is NOT-that is abuse. Whether the act was done with intent to kill the child or not.
In the Jamie Ann Litton case the child was beaten to death-no accident there. Thats why they tried to cover it up.

 

[norest4thewicked]

The mother was asleep. What if she had found the baby first? Since she was responsible, she may not have called 911. Putting your 16 month in the tub and falling asleep is a crime, always.

When babies and toddlers drown in tubs, the caregiver usually goes to jail. Rightfully so.

DB could have disposed of BL's body before JI got home, and she's lying to him along with the rest of us and LE.

I still go back to that. But, someone who knows DB here (or at least has witnessed her) says that there is no way that DB could have gone to the river...no how, no way. She said that it would be next to impossible. So, how could DB have killed (either accidentally or intentionally) Lisa, found her body and hidden it all between 10:30 and the time Jeremy got home?

 

[norest4thewicked]

to add..Jeremy is grief stricken, Jeremy is exhausted, Jeremy is overwhelmed, Jeremy is shy.

Well, since people who know him say that he is completely different than he acts in the interviews, I have to wonder if he is really shy. I could accept exhausted from working the long hours and could agree with the overwhelmed part. However, grief stricken...??? I'd have to say the jury is still out on that one.

 

[vlpate]

BBM

They did, on the Dr. P. show. That lead to the comment from LE saying they never told anyone about LDT's or even if they took them.

There was no comment from LE, just hearsay by JT.

Besides, if the above is supposed to be what was said to Tacopina by LE, then DB was lying not only about taking the LDT, but also about being told she failed it.

 

[Sparklin]

This statement alone should indict her....IMO. What sincere parent wanting to know what happened to their baby wouldn't ask the other children in the home if they saw or heard something? Goodness, how many things have to be listed to convince some that she knows what happened? She doesn't talk to LE, she doesn't let her kids talk. LE has to get subpoena...it takes a month and the kids are put under extreme conditions by defense attorneys conditions; but all freshness in their mind has long gone anyway. The mother fails a poly and a cadaver dog hits. Jeremy is beside her and apparently doesn't show a sign of being angry with her. How odd! Everything in this case points to a homicide occurring inside the Lister house.

sbm - bbm = I see the same as you, differently

She spoke with LE for hours originally, but for whatever reason, they were on one track - accusing and insulting.
The boys were interviewed immediately, info still fresh.
LE WANTED a subpoena, they didn't have to get one, Jeremy had already given them free reign on the house.
What extreme conditions? They wanted the best FBI person for the job. When she was available, the children were RE-interviewed. Parents and lawyers were in another room totally, unable to see or hear anything.
Tons of innocent people fail polys~and just because they told HER she failed, they haven't told US she failed.
Cadaver dog hit, without any further info, is questionable to me.

Most of this is my opinion - but a lot of it is fact.

ETA: Jeremy knows Deb, knows how she is with the children, how she loved Lisa, how she is when she is drinking - it's very possible that he truly believes she is totally innocent and has nothing to do with Lisa being missing.

 

[vlpate]

I still go back to that. But, someone who knows DB here (or at least has witnessed her) says that there is no way that DB could have gone to the river...no how, no way. She said that it would be next to impossible. So, how could DB have killed (either accidentally or intentionally) Lisa, found her body and hidden it all between 10:30 and the time Jeremy got home?

PN. If anyone would help cover, it would be him, IMO.

As far as it being impossible for DB to get to the river and back - NOTHING is impossible when your 24, on an adrenaline high, and covering your bum. It is just my personal opinion that she is more the type to depend on the kindness of family than do it herself.

Jeremy knows what she wants him to know if this is the case. I don't see him covering for her....unless he's one of those desperate spouses who would use it as power just to keep her. SIGH Neither of them are talking so nothing makes sense!!!!

 

[Sparklin]

BBM: Because IF Jeremy did NOT take a LDT -- BUT he says he did take one and that he passed the LDT -- that would be a "lie" -- which would be used against him ...

JMO ... but I think Jeremy refused the poly because he IS involved at some point ...

MOO ...

How is it not a lie that he says he wasn't offered one and/or didn't have to take one?? What difference the lie??