How much does Jeremy know?

[KsStormy]

I believe BL died at DB's hands and I also think JI knows what happened.

It's the disposal of the baby that bothers me. All the vehicles were checked, so they couldn't have used any of those cars. I wonder if PN could have borrowed a car and used that to help out his sister?

I am confused as to whether HRD dogs could pick up the scent of a body if it were wrapped or contained in some way, for only 2 min. (distance to the Mighty Mo) in a vehicle?

 

[norest4thewicked]

I am confused as to whether HRD dogs could pick up the scent of a body if it were wrapped or contained in some way, for only 2 min. (distance to the Mighty Mo) in a vehicle?

I think that most of us are confused. The SAR experts on here say it can't be done, but I have personally talked to someone who says it is possible. In any case, if someone walked during the night, it would be totally doable. I remember that someone who is local on here actually walked the distance from the home to the river and said it was not difficult at all.

I think that it depends on who you ask as to what answer you get. I personally believe the local person who did the walk.

 

[KsStormy]

I think that most of us are confused. The SAR experts on here say it can't be done, but I have personally talked to someone who says it is possible. In any case, if someone walked during the night, it would be totally doable. I remember that someone who is local on here actually walked the distance from the home to the river and said it was not difficult at all.

I think that it depends on who you ask as to what answer you get. I personally believe the local person who did the walk.

I know MANY people who are locals & have grown up in the area, & I have also been up there several times myself. 2 minutes by car to the river, & maybe 10 or so walking... the river is RIGHT THERE... and it was really a monster back in Oct. after all the flooding.You should have seen the damage done up north of KC from the flooding... it was quite the sight. The big story at the time was the MO state trooper who had been lost in the floodwaters, I think it took 5 months to find him. Maybe they figured, "Hey if they can't even find one of their own state troopers..."

 

[yupikgirl]

I am local, but never did the walk myself from their house. That said I know the area and it is definitely reasonable to think someone walked it.

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

I´ve just read this:

When Parents Kill
Why fathers do it. Why mothers do it.

Women do not, by and large, make terrific criminals. In the United States, women commit only two crimes as frequently as men. The first is shoplifting. The second is the murder of their own children. Andrea Yates, the Houston mother whose trial for the murders of three of her children ends today, and Marilyn Lemak, the Chicago nurse recently convicted of killing her three children, are not at all statistical anomalies. Somehow, women—who commit less than 13 percent of all violent crimes in the United States—commit about 50 percent of all parental murders.

The Numbers
Children under the age of 5 in the United States are more likely to be killed by their parents than anyone else. Contrary to popular mythology, they are rarely killed by a sex-crazed stranger. FBI crime statistics show that in 1999 parents were responsible for 57 percent of these murders, with family friends and acquaintances accounting for another 30 percent and other family members accounting for 8 percent. Crime statistics further reveal that of the children under 5 killed from 1976 to 1999, 30 percent were murdered by their mothers while 31 percent were killed by their fathers. And while the strangers, acquaintances, and other family members who kill children skew heavily toward males (as does the entire class of murderers), children are as likely to be murdered by their fathers as by their mothers.

The Murders
Perhaps more revealing than the differences in why they kill their offspring are the differences between how fathers and mothers do so. For one thing, parental murderers tend to be highly physical. According to a 1988 survey done by the U.S. Justice Department, while 61 percent of all murder defendants used a gun in 1988, only 20 percent of the parents who killed their children used one. Children were drowned and shaken, beaten, poisoned, stabbed, and suffocated. These methods betray a certain "craziness" in both genders—they betray an intense passion and a lack of planning. But a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children shows that fathers are far more violent. And mothers frequently dispose of the corpses in what researchers call a "womblike" fashion. Bodies are swaddled, submerged in water, or wrapped in plastic. Moreover, the NCMEC study showed that while the victims of maternal killings are almost always found either in or close to the home, fathers will, on average, dispose of the bodies hundreds of miles away. All these behaviors suggest that women associate these murders with themselves, their homes, and their bodies

 

[norest4thewicked]

I know MANY people who are locals & have grown up in the area, & I have also been up there several times myself. 2 minutes by car to the river, & maybe 10 or so walking... the river is RIGHT THERE... and it was really a monster back in Oct. after all the flooding.You should have seen the damage done up north of KC from the flooding... it was quite the sight. The big story at the time was the MO state trooper who had been lost in the floodwaters, I think it took 5 months to find him. Maybe they figured, "Hey if they can't even find one of their own state troopers..."

BBM

I get what you are saying. I have thought from the very beginning that Lisa was put in that river. There used to be a poster here who was a neighbor and she told me that she didn't believe that DB could have walked the distance in the dark carrying a baby since she was overweight and smoked heavily. I always called BS on that! DB was only 25 years old at the time and unless she was in some way handicapped to not be able to walk, smoking and weight would not have stopped someone who was in a panic. I would imagine that if DB either found Lisa dead from her negligence or accidentally caused her death, there would be so much adrenaline that she would not have much trouble at all getting to that river. The terrain certainly isn't mountainous. Even if it was dark, a river makes a very distinctive sound and there is moonlight. I just don't understand people that say it can't be done. And, besides that, Jeremy isn't overweight and you'd think that he would be able to make it to the river even better than DB.

Little Lisa went in the river either that night or the night before...there is no doubt in my mind...:cry:

 

[norest4thewicked]

I´ve just read this:

When Parents Kill
Why fathers do it. Why mothers do it.

Women do not, by and large, make terrific criminals. In the United States, women commit only two crimes as frequently as men. The first is shoplifting. The second is the murder of their own children. Andrea Yates, the Houston mother whose trial for the murders of three of her children ends today, and Marilyn Lemak, the Chicago nurse recently convicted of killing her three children, are not at all statistical anomalies. Somehow, women—who commit less than 13 percent of all violent crimes in the United States—commit about 50 percent of all parental murders.

The Numbers
Children under the age of 5 in the United States are more likely to be killed by their parents than anyone else. Contrary to popular mythology, they are rarely killed by a sex-crazed stranger. FBI crime statistics show that in 1999 parents were responsible for 57 percent of these murders, with family friends and acquaintances accounting for another 30 percent and other family members accounting for 8 percent. Crime statistics further reveal that of the children under 5 killed from 1976 to 1999, 30 percent were murdered by their mothers while 31 percent were killed by their fathers. And while the strangers, acquaintances, and other family members who kill children skew heavily toward males (as does the entire class of murderers), children are as likely to be murdered by their fathers as by their mothers.

The Murders
Perhaps more revealing than the differences in why they kill their offspring are the differences between how fathers and mothers do so. For one thing, parental murderers tend to be highly physical. According to a 1988 survey done by the U.S. Justice Department, while 61 percent of all murder defendants used a gun in 1988, only 20 percent of the parents who killed their children used one. Children were drowned and shaken, beaten, poisoned, stabbed, and suffocated. These methods betray a certain "craziness" in both genders—they betray an intense passion and a lack of planning. But a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children shows that fathers are far more violent. And mothers frequently dispose of the corpses in what researchers call a "womblike" fashion. Bodies are swaddled, submerged in water, or wrapped in plastic. Moreover, the NCMEC study showed that while the victims of maternal killings are almost always found either in or close to the home, fathers will, on average, dispose of the bodies hundreds of miles away. All these behaviors suggest that women associate these murders with themselves, their homes, and their bodies

BBM

Very interesting and what I have heard as well. Wrapped in plastic, weighted down and thrown in the river, I feel this was that innocent child's fate...

 

[4Jacy]

Someone help me out here. This has been bothering me for awhile. How is it that the dogs in the Laci Peterson case could trace the body almost to the bay, but the dogs used for BL could not trace anything (other then the bedroom hit)?tia

 

[hambirg]

BBM

I get what you are saying. I have thought from the very beginning that Lisa was put in that river. There used to be a poster here who was a neighbor and she told me that she didn't believe that DB could have walked the distance in the dark carrying a baby since she was overweight and smoked heavily. I always called BS on that! DB was only 25 years old at the time and unless she was in some way handicapped to not be able to walk, smoking and weight would not have stopped someone who was in a panic. I would imagine that if DB either found Lisa dead from her negligence or accidentally caused her death, there would be so much adrenaline that she would not have much trouble at all getting to that river. The terrain certainly isn't mountainous. Even if it was dark, a river makes a very distinctive sound and there is moonlight. I just don't understand people that say it can't be done. And, besides that, Jeremy isn't overweight and you'd think that he would be able to make it to the river even better than DB.

Little Lisa went in the river either that night or the night before...there is no doubt in my mind...:cry:

We also heard adamantly that that was PN's house on Waldron. I don't believe that for a second. So, we have to throw PN in there too. He could have came back to the house, because he was living there, and help dispose of BL. It makes me wonder why they tried to make it look like he wasn't living there. Really suspicious in my eyes.

MOO

 

[OEJ]

I'm still not so sure Jeremy knows anything other than the face value of what Deborah has told him. Was it Deborah who brought the debit card "theft" to Jeremy's attention? He seemed genuinely perplexed about how the website changed from a name change site to an office supply site.

 

[4Jacy]

Someone help me out here. This has been bothering me for awhile. How is it that the dogs in the Laci Peterson case could trace the body almost to the bay, but the dogs used for BL could not trace anything (other then the bedroom hit)?tia

So no one can help me out with my question??

 

[lonetraveler]

BBM

I get what you are saying. I have thought from the very beginning that Lisa was put in that river. There used to be a poster here who was a neighbor and she told me that she didn't believe that DB could have walked the distance in the dark carrying a baby since she was overweight and smoked heavily. I always called BS on that! DB was only 25 years old at the time and unless she was in some way handicapped to not be able to walk, smoking and weight would not have stopped someone who was in a panic. I would imagine that if DB either found Lisa dead from her negligence or accidentally caused her death, there would be so much adrenaline that she would not have much trouble at all getting to that river. The terrain certainly isn't mountainous. Even if it was dark, a river makes a very distinctive sound and there is moonlight. I just don't understand people that say it can't be done. And, besides that, Jeremy isn't overweight and you'd think that he would be able to make it to the river even better than DB.

Little Lisa went in the river either that night or the night before...there is no doubt in my mind...:cry:

I totally agree with you. Deborah isn't that much overweight. I'm a little overweight myself but could swing my husband's 58 lb. wheelchair into the car over and over again. I could do anything I wanted to do. When you add in adrenalin she could have easily walked to the river and tossed Lisa in. I'm one who also believes that this is what happened to Lisa.

 

[lonetraveler]

I think that Jeremy is a total "'whipped" boy who belongs to Deborah. When she says "Jump" he just jumps and doesn't ask how high. He just sits there like a damn Knot on a log without the IQ it takes to even think for himself. Someone needs to kick his arse into gear.

 

[lonetraveler]

So no one can help me out with my question??

Hi 4Jacy, I think that the dogs can't track Lisa because she was put into a vehicle and driven away to her disposal location.

 

[norest4thewicked]

So no one can help me out with my question??

I can't answer it because I'm not familiar with the other case enough to know what circumstances there were. Perhaps it was because Lacee was an adult and had more area of decomposition. I don't know. Perhaps one of our SAR experts can answer this.

 

[4Jacy]

Hi 4Jacy, I think that the dogs can't track Lisa because she was put into a vehicle and driven away to her disposal location.

Thanks lone, but so was Laci.

 

[4Jacy]

I can't answer it because I'm not familiar with the other case enough to know what circumstances there were. Perhaps it was because Lacee was an adult and had more area of decomposition. I don't know. Perhaps one of our SAR experts can answer this.

I hope so because it has bothered me for a long time. Anyone who can give a reason for this, it would certainly be appreciated. tia

 

[redheadedgal]

I hope so because it has bothered me for a long time. Anyone who can give a reason for this, it would certainly be appreciated. tia

amount of time til dog brought in to search/track??

dog used only 4 days after laci disappeared (first link)... how long was it before a tracking dog was brought to the irwin home? two weeks? (second link)


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/09/01/BAG1U8HJIE17.DTL

http://www.ksby.com/full-coverage/search-for-lisa-irwin/

 

[4Jacy]

Hi 4Jacy, I think that the dogs can't track Lisa because she was put into a vehicle and driven away to her disposal location.

Thanks, lone. However, Laci was in the back of a truck and driven to her disposal location.

 

[Melon]

Thanks, lone. However, Laci was in the back of a truck and driven to her disposal location.

If it was an open truck bed, I think there is your answer. I do not presume to speak for any expert on the subject of dog scenting, but a dead body in an open bed of a truck would throw off scent into the surrounding area much more readily than a body in a car, I would think. Air current swirling in an open pick up bed would force the cadaver scent out of the truck and leave a trail to follow. :moo: You should post your question in the dog thread and see what our experts say. I have an unanswered question pertaining to this case over in that thread that I would love someone to comment on.