I can't find a hole in this theory...

[midwest mama]

Would someone please remind me, or try explaining again, why, if John did not expect Patsy to make the call to 911, and cause his "staging" to become disrupted, Patsy said in interviews that John told her to call the police?

 

[Patriciao]

While all these ideas sounds interesting I still think they should check out a pre-teen boy or immature young adult who lived close by and knew the house and the family. I think a boy was infatuated with JBR, may have even been at the same party, lived close enough to her house to come over and knew the layout of the house, molested JBR in the basement, then finished her off with the garotte knot he learned in boy scouts. Being of immature mind he took his time and wrote the ransom note to throw off the police. He may have frequented the house in the past, possibly stayed over night with Burke, and previously molested JBR. She went willingly to the basement with this person. She knew him. She may have had a crush on him which is why she never told about the prior touching to her parents. Maybe Burke's silence was intentional so that he did not incriminate any of his buddies. As for the broken window in the basement. Maybe it had been also broken in the past but you don't live in CO and not realize there is a broken window in the basement that hasn't been repaired yet. The cold drafts would have given it away.

 

[LinasK]

While all these ideas sounds interesting I still think they should check out a pre-teen boy or immature young adult who lived close by and knew the house and the family. I think a boy was infatuated with JBR, may have even been at the same party, lived close enough to her house to come over and knew the layout of the house, molested JBR in the basement, then finished her off with the garotte knot he learned in boy scouts. Being of immature mind he took his time and wrote the ransom note to throw off the police. He may have frequented the house in the past, possibly stayed over night with Burke, and previously molested JBR. She went willingly to the basement with this person. She knew him. She may have had a crush on him which is why she never told about the prior touching to her parents. Maybe Burke's silence was intentional so that he did not incriminate any of his buddies. As for the broken window in the basement. Maybe it had been also broken in the past but you don't live in CO and not realize there is a broken window in the basement that hasn't been repaired yet. The cold drafts would have given it away.

How did this boy escape undetected? There was an unbroken spider web on the basement window and no footprints in the snow. Why would his handwriting and wording so closely match Patsy ( and maybe JR's style)? How do you account for JR's fibers in JB's new panties???

 

[LinasK]

So she goes back and forth between Oscar worthy performer and unconvincing ? If she had the talent, why not use it all the time?

Just because Patsy was a literal Drama Queen (hence the "Oscar worthy performer"), does not mean she was good at it! One can be over the top, think they are good, and be horrible!

 

[LinasK]

This isn't necessarily directed at you justthinkin, but many RDIs theorize all kinds of late night phone calls to doctors, lawyers, the Governor, etc. I'm not saying such calls were made, but if a call were made to anyone with any legal knowledge at all they'd surely have been informed that Burke was too young to be prosecuted.

It would be ironic if the cover up was done just out of ignorance of the age of culpability. JR was the kind of guy who could get his lawyer out of bed at 3 am and the lawyer would not have a cross word to say.

I didn't get an ISP until '99, so I can't say what the state of the net was in '96. I don't even know if the Rs had internet service then. I'm wondering if JR couldn't have looked it up on the computer? (I assume they had one)

I can't believe the Rs didn't at least know that Burke could not be tried as an adult, even if they thought he was chargeable.

In 1996 Prodigy existed as a Browser, and possibly Netscape, or AOL. I got a computer for the word processor in 1987, when I was in grad school, working on my thesis.

 

[BOESP]

So she goes back and forth between Oscar worthy performer and unconvincing ? If she had the talent, why not use it all the time?

Chris, I know you will find this hard to believe but I actually remember Patsy participating in the Miss America contest and remember her talent performance. She did a monologue. It was so dramatic and overdone that I wondered why anyone in their right mind would do that for the talent competition. I guess talent is in the eyes of the beholder.

Now I have no good reason to explain why remember her performance. It wasn't to my taste at all. She came in second or so iirc and I thought my gosh they were short on talent that year! Really lousy acting and very overly dramatic. This was in the days of black and white television, at least at my house.

 

[LinasK]

My edit of above: 'So she never got undressed, helped to elaborately stage her, didn't change any clothing at all and called 911 and let the cops into her home. That's it.' hwow:

BR started it, JR finished it, JR and PR staged it and tried to cover it up. :moo:

I buy it except for BR being involved. I think this was totally JR and PR.

 

[Chrishope]

Please don't leave either of you! There is no need for us RDI's to start turning on each other as to which Ramsey it was, even with us JDI's- we are still RDI's! Both of you are respected posters and I appreciate your comments, I'm just 4 pages behind on this thread and just getting caught up. This case doesn't have to consume your life, I've left many times and come back, just ask Super Dave (by the way where is he?)
I have always been a JDI, but I am fascinated by DocG's idea that Patsy wasn't involved at all, and that JR wrote the note. He makes a very good case, with the exception of the unbroken spider web.

I'm not leaving, just slowing down.
Concentrating on writing up my theory of the case.

 

[UKGuy]

Would someone please remind me, or try explaining again, why, if John did not expect Patsy to make the call to 911, and cause his "staging" to become disrupted, Patsy said in interviews that John told her to call the police?

midwest mama,
Because John, Patsy and Burke were all involved in the staging, they were all told what their roles would be, how to behave, and what to say.

So to avoid any issues over where the Ransom Note says do not call anyone etc, Patsy uses John, to explain away why she phones 911!

On the stand she would cite John telling her what to do, e.g. dutiful housewife.

I forget the timeline but it could also be, John told her to phone 911, before he had read the Ransom Note, remember that bit about John kneeling in his underwear to read the note? Its all nonsense of course, just a little touch of the absurd, e.g Ramseyesque realism!

I reckon its all pretty simple: Someone was abusing JonBenet, someone whacked JonBenet on the head, someone asphyxiated JonBenet. All the Ramsey's took part in the staging, including the 911 call, and afterwards, e.g. Burke play-acting asleep. A golf-club appears to be a good candidate for the head whacking, and the paintbrush handle for JonBenet's internal injuries.

The 64K Q is: Who was abusing JonBenet?


.

 

[LinasK]

Thanks, mama, for this very interesting research. I would be very reluctant to accept the notion that vaginal trauma could have been part of a coverup and I really wonder if this was the FBI's assessment or the assessment of Steve Thomas, who wanted very much to believe Patsy was responsible for every part of the murder and coverup, with John out of the loop until the following day.

Maybe Thomas found an FBI pal willing to go along with that, but to me this is one of the most bizarre ideas ever tossed into this extremely strange mix. I can certainly imagine a mother killing her daughter, but I cannot for the life of me imagine a mother violating her own daughter like that in order to cover up a murder to make it look like a sexual assault. That's beyond depraved! When we add the fact that a head blow could easily have been reported as an accident, and that there was also evidence of chronic vaginal injury, Thomas's theory makes absolutely no sense at all. Here again we see the problem ANY theory involving Patsy will inevitably have. And why NO DA has ever believed it possible to make such a case in court.

So I'm glad you've decided to take a closer look at JR, because he is certainly the most likely by far to have done all that was done that night.

I agree, and the evidence, which I've known about since PMPT, is the sexual abuse- not pointing towards a rage killing because of bed-wetting! I never believed that.

 

[redheadedgal]

So to you the ransom note is pure nonsense, thrown together in a panic? Sorry, but if you take a good look at this note, you'll see that it is most certainly not thrown together. Every single i is dotted, every t is crossed, the spacing is remarkably uniform, the margins are adhered to in almost every single line...

actually, not true. the i was not dotted in "like" in the sentence "the two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularity like you so i advise you not to provoke them."

and, i noticed just now too that the writer neglected to put a period after the C as they did following the S. B. T. ...

 

[LinasK]

That's a valid point, agreed. We can't put ourselves into the minds of any of these people and assume we know what they were thinking. However, in a court of law, arguments are made based on what seems logical and imo it does seem logical to assume the writer of the note would not have wanted that call made. Especially because it's so difficult to imagine what else that person could have had in mind.

Also there are other indications causing us to doubt her involvement because no Patsy did it scenario can explain why a head wound couldn't have been explained as an accident, or why a middle class housewife would suddenly transform into Jack the Ripper, sexually violating her daughter's body and then strangling her with a garotte of all things, in order to cover up a head blow. Nor is it logical to assume she would cover for John if he'd assaulted and killed their daughter. The same with Burke, because again a head wound could have been explained as an accident and again why would she go to such bizarre extremes to cover it up?

When all the evidence is taken into consideration, it's hard to see Patsy's involvement, though not hard to see why she might have lied a bit to support John's version of what happened, since she would have been sure of his innocence (since he'd been ruled out). As for the handwriting evidence, I believe I dealt with that adequately on my blog.

Mmm, This is the one thing I disagree with you on- Patsy was a stand-by-your-man kinda gal, and she wouldn't have wanted the social stigma that would have been uncovered had they taken JB to an emergency room and it discovered that one of the males in her family (presumably JR0 had been sexually abusing JB. It was too important, therefore must cover it up!
Mothers of abuse victims are often in denial (I know that from personal experience) and it was rumored that Patsy herself may have been molested by her father Don, and Nedra made some comment IIRC, about "a little bit molested".

 

[LinasK]

Can someone in plain English, summarize the vaginal injuries...that night's and the prior? because I'm having a problem with comprehension. What exactly was meant by digital penetration? Also, the other day, I read a link that mentioned penis penetration. Is this legit? because this would go a long way in pointing to an abuser.

Digital penetration= finger digits. That's how my uncle molested me.

 

[Whaleshark]

While all these ideas sounds interesting I still think they should check out a pre-teen boy or immature young adult who lived close by and knew the house and the family. I think a boy was infatuated with JBR, may have even been at the same party, lived close enough to her house to come over and knew the layout of the house, molested JBR in the basement, then finished her off with the garotte knot he learned in boy scouts. Being of immature mind he took his time and wrote the ransom note to throw off the police. He may have frequented the house in the past, possibly stayed over night with Burke, and previously molested JBR. She went willingly to the basement with this person. She knew him. She may have had a crush on him which is why she never told about the prior touching to her parents. Maybe Burke's silence was intentional so that he did not incriminate any of his buddies. As for the broken window in the basement. Maybe it had been also broken in the past but you don't live in CO and not realize there is a broken window in the basement that hasn't been repaired yet. The cold drafts would have given it away.

A pre-teen or immature young adult does not match with the language of the note, and would have to know the adult Ramsey inside joke about John's good old southern common sense and the fat cats.

 

[LinasK]

I have a question about the above-I am 47 yrs old & I had never heard of this until a couple of yrs ago when David Carradine killed him self doing this
Was this game well known in 1996-I mean-how likely is it that John Ramsey would even know such a game existed back then,with no internet in those days?Do people really think he would do such a horrible thing to his own daughter?

Ah, but there was Internet back in those days... I had Prodigy back in 1996, and a personal computer in 1987.

 

[LinasK]

BOESP,
You win a cigar. No agent is named its just refers to profilers, here is some quotes, they offer some meat for discussion.

Perfect Murder, Perfect Town


Perfect Murder, Perfect Town



.

They used the wrong profiler- should've used Dayle Hinman- she would've discovered which Ramsey(s) it was!!!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[LinasK]

But the fibers were found INSIDE the crotch of the brand-NEW panties on JB. That says it all to me.

To me too! The incest in this family was caused by John. No getting around it. Unfortunately wasn't the first father to do this to a daughter, and won't be the last...

 

[dodie20]

A pre-teen or immature young adult does not match with the language of the note, and would have to know the adult Ramsey inside joke about John's good old southern common sense and the fat cats.

I've wondered if there was some kind of connection between the phrases, 'stray dog', and 'fat cat'. because there was no reason, whatsoever, to add the stray dog reference. Would a kidnapper really kill a 6 yr old, because her father talked to a stray dog? No. Does 'stray dog', mean something else in certain circles? I'd guess a 'stray dog' could be a euphemism for a poor, unimportant person, as opposed to a 'fat cat', (rich, important person), but IDK. Some of us were discussing JB's little dog the other day, so the writer might have been thinking about that dog? Also, I understand what We mean by the phrase, it means 'don't talk', but a foreign faction surely wouldn't know that phrase. So, I was wondering about other meanings or connections, because the use of 'stray dog' and 'fat cat', struck me as very odd.

 

[LinasK]

Chrishope,
It was really Boulder paper and pen, since Intruders also had access to them.


simples.



.

Oh, puleasse! Do you really believe that? What about the unbroken spider web???

It could also have been labeled "pad of paper", without reference to the "owner". It doesn'treally matter how it's labelled. The paper was available, to anyone.

Whaleshark has a good point, the paper wasn't under the exclusive control of PR. It was just a writing tablet in the R's house. It points to the Rs, but not to either one specifically. The "association" is just as strong for JR as for PR.

Exactly!

 

[LinasK]

No, it's NOT the same. A mother covering for her son by strangling her own daughter using a garotte (or by any other means, actually) is in itself beyond bizarre. When we add to that the writing of a ransom note, it simply makes no sense, because by staging a kidnapping there is no need to stage a perverted sexual attack. One or the other might possibly make some sense, but both? Sorry, does not compute. Then on top of all this, we must believe that a 9 year old child was sexually active enough to produce the vaginal injuries? That piles one bizarre theory on top of another.

This is truly an off the wall theory on top of an off the wall theory, taken seriously only because the authorities were desperate for some sort of explanation, given that John, the most likely suspect by far, had been "ruled out."

If we rule John back in then we see a scenario that any experienced profiler would recognize. Father-daughter incense followed by murder to avoid exposure. Maybe he thought she would tell, maybe he was afraid her doctor would report the vaginal trauma. The "garotte" could be explained as a sexual device (ala Wecht) or as a means of finishing her off after the head blow by facilitating ligature strangulation (possibly to avoid leaving prints).

Horrible and disgusting, yes. Bizarre? no. Unbelievable? No.

:goodpost:I agree!