I can't find a hole in this theory...

[Bonnette]

Steve Thomas' JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation is a must-read, IMO.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

rashomon,
crotch area is pretty vague, were any found elsewhere on JonBenet, or were they restricted to her crotch area?

.

Not sure about men, but to a woman we do know the difference in "on your panties" and the "in the crotch of your panties".

 

[txsvicki]

Is pmpt free online? I found what i thought was a sample, but read a bunch of pages befor stopping.

 

[midwest mama]

Is PMPT available on Kindle? It's a good introduction to the case, but Kolar's book is more up to date. Unfortunately, PMPT is the only book that's relatively unbiased. The books by Thomas and Kolar are loaded with good information up to a point, but beyond that point both are heavily biased in favor of their respective pet theories.

My favorite is the Police Files book published by the Enquirer, which presents the unvarnished police interviews with John and Pasty. But you already need to know a good bit about the case to get anything meaningful out of that one.

I'd recommend my blog, but it's not really for beginners, and is, of course, heavily biased in favor of my own pet theory.

Just finished "Police Files". Not to give DocG any extra plugs, but thought you JDI's would find these quotes interesting, which are direct answers from John Ramsey during his interviews with investigators:

"...I don't know if JonBenet had a bedwetting problem, I'm not sure she did. I think all kids wet their beds. I know my older kids certainly did...." pg 321

"...I mean all my children wet the bed, it was not a big deal..... I mean, Melinda wet her bed until she was older than, I don't remember how old, but it was older than -- if anybody had a bedwetting problem, you would have said maybe it was Melinda, because it went on longer,...." pg 356

Melinda has stated that her Dad is a wonderful, loving father. But Melinda and her husband are reported to be distanced from JR.

"I mean Burke probably did too. No, Burke did. I know he did. You could tell that, you knew if you came downstairs and he was in the other bed, guaranteed what happened. Or he would come upstairs, crawl in bed with us. And have a clean pair of underwear on. So he wet his bed too."

So, we've learned that children who are victims of sexual abuse often wet the bed. He sure knew about all the other kids, but not JB????

" ...I thought Beth was the burden I had to carry. And then we have been given the burden of losing JonBenet, who in my mind was a gift to us. She took Beth's place." pg 376 :what:

There were reports that Beth had a failed attempted suicide shortly after she had confided in friends and family members about alleged abuse by JR and some others he knew. An article mentions that there was even suspicion that JR had something to do with the auto accident Beth and her fiance were in, and that it was not satisfactorily resolved by authorities. Of course, these articles are just purely speculation!! :notgood:

(when asked if JB would get up on her own and go down to the kitchen): "...I don't think so. Not that I remember, ever, at night. She was getting to the point where she was -- she used to be not afraid of the dark or anything at all, and then she was growing up a little bit and getting afraid of the dark."
Pg 335

WHY???

"Well, she looked very, like someone had very carefully placed her on the blanket, wrapped the blanket around her to keep her warm." pg 354

Why would he have this amount of emotion connected to his description of how he first saw JB when he found her? I would have been too freaked out to even think straight, let alone make those type of emotional judgments of a perpetrator's 'kindness'.

and, finally, pg 365: (JR was asked in what area of the house he thought JB received her injuries) "Well, I guess my impression is that it was in the basement. But that's just purely an assumption. We didn't hear a thing. I think if she had cried out or -- you know, we would have heard that. (Two witnesses gave statements they heard a scream, and police tests confirmed a scream would have been heard on the 3rd floor). I didn't know she had any head injury at all. It wasn't -- I just didn't see...." "I mean, I guess -- well, like I say, I just -- that's very difficult to think about and imagine, but I wondered whether the head injury didn't kill her and after that they strangled her." (assuming here, he was referring to 'intruders') :liar:

 

[Simp]

Is PMPT available on Kindle? It's a good introduction to the case, but Kolar's book is more up to date. Unfortunately, PMPT is the only book that's relatively unbiased. The books by Thomas and Kolar are loaded with good information up to a point, but beyond that point both are heavily biased in favor of their respective pet theories.

My favorite is the Police Files book published by the Enquirer, which presents the unvarnished police interviews with John and Pasty. But you already need to know a good bit about the case to get anything meaningful out of that one.

I'd recommend my blog, but it's not really for beginners, and is, of course, heavily biased in favor of my own pet theory.

PMPT is available on kindle. I was looking for unbiased since I am a beginner. Thanks so much!!!

 

[Bonnette]

Just finished "Police Files". Not to give DocG any extra plugs, but thought you JDI's would find these quotes interesting, which are direct answers from John Ramsey during his interviews with investigators...

MM, my skin just crawls. Even those who are not JDI (but believe that he covered up and staged) will surely find these quotes, er, interesting. What a guy.

 

[Bonnette]

PMPT is available on kindle. I was looking for unbiased since I am a beginner. Thanks so much!!!

Simp, you won't find a great deal of unbiased material, because the DA's office suppressed evidence and tied detectives' hands by not following standard investigational procedure. At the end of the day, almost every member of law enforcement had an ax to grind. The only way they could deal with the horror of this crime - absent official support for their efforts - was to write books; and even then, for legal reasons they couldn't reveal everything they had figured out on their own. You will need to read a lot of material, in books and on-line, and allow the details to sift through and accumulate in your own mind. There is no such thing as an objective report about this case, because no one knows - or has revealed - the whole truth.

 

[midwest mama]

Simp, you won't find a great deal of unbiased material, because the DA's office suppressed evidence and tied detectives' hands by not following standard investigational procedure. At the end of the day, almost every member of law enforcement had an ax to grind. The only way they could deal with the horror of this crime - absent official support for their efforts - was to write books; and even then, for legal reasons they couldn't reveal everything they had figured out on their own. You will need to read a lot of material, in books and on-line, and allow the details to sift through and accumulate in your own mind. There is no such thing as an objective report about this case, because no one knows - or has revealed - the whole truth.

:welcome5:SIMP - Just a head's up -- Bonnette is ssoooooo right. I followed the JB case as a mild lurker for 15 years, and a few months ago found myself needing to try to make more sense out of it. The more I learn, the less sleep I get! This little girl suffered so much, and her family has no sense of conscience. It's almost heartbreaking, but you push past that fairly quickly when you start finding yourself so incensed at the audacity of the R's and their RST. I hope I'll be around on the Forum long enough to see something break and lead to a resolution. :justice:

 

[Chrishope]

:welcome5:SIMP - Just a head's up -- Bonnette is ssoooooo right. I followed the JB case as a mild lurker for 15 years, and a few months ago found myself needing to try to make more sense out of it. The more I learn, the less sleep I get! This little girl suffered so much, and her family has no sense of conscience. It's almost heartbreaking, but you push past that fairly quickly when you start finding yourself so incensed at the audacity of the R's and their RST. I hope I'll be around on the Forum long enough to see something break and lead to a resolution. :justice:

There isn't going to be a "break". We know about as much as we ever will - barring a confession, and even then some will not accept the confession at face value. The case has to be solved with what we already have.

 

[midwest mama]

There isn't going to be a "break". We know about as much as we ever will - barring a confession, and even then some will not accept the confession at face value. The case has to be solved with what we already have.

:slap:C'mon Chrishope - Glad you said we know 'about' as much as we ever will. Kolar's book brought out some new info (yucky candy), as well as his radio interview with his professional deduction about where the head injury happened.

I know you have a hard time using psychological profiling along with evidence, but for some of us, sleuthing includes every bit of information we can glean to help pull the pieces together of such a jigsaw puzzle crime as this.

Let's agree, after more than 15-1/2 years, there have certainly been plenty of well trained and highly educated specialists who, as of yet, have been able to bring this case to closure. Granted, there are probably quite a few equally capable people with opposite interests, working AGAINST the resolution.

I'd say, as 'lay' people, if we aren't staying open to any shred of new insight, evidence, commentary, or WHATEVER that might fall upon the ears or eyes of anyone who can link it to this case, then we might as well as 'pick up our toys' and go home.

Sure, we can all remain unified and hope that within forum discussion we might be able to put some things together that lead to a major discovery, but after this many years with highly credible people not succeeding at doing just that, we'd better cling pretty hard to the possibility of a "break" of some sort. And maybe it'll even be you who provides it - you'll keep reading and surfing the net, and listening and watching the news, and all of a sudden you'll see or hear something that will hammer down your theory. And some of us will be right there alongside doing what we can to help you see justice served! :woohoo:

I firmly believe that someone on this earth knows all about how JB died. And even if we have all the information that we, as the general public, may ever know about this case, I will NOT stop believing we can hope and PRAY for a break in this case!

 

[Simp]

:welcome5:SIMP - Just a head's up -- Bonnette is ssoooooo right. I followed the JB case as a mild lurker for 15 years, and a few months ago found myself needing to try to make more sense out of it. The more I learn, the less sleep I get! This little girl suffered so much, and her family has no sense of conscience. It's almost heartbreaking, but you push past that fairly quickly when you start finding yourself so incensed at the audacity of the R's and their RST. I hope I'll be around on the Forum long enough to see something break and lead to a resolution. :justice:

I just started reading PMPT. I'm going in with an open mind.. And an empty mind (lol) since I'm just getting started. I remember the case in the news but never followed. Only became interested in learning more about JBR after joining WS because of another case. I haven't seen yet that the R's have "no sense of conscience" but as I said, I'm just getting started. Clean slate, no opinion yet. Anyway, I'm back to reading!!!!!

 

[Bonnette]

We know about as much as we ever will - barring a confession, and even then some will not accept the confession at face value.

I understand your frustration and sense of futility...for some people, JFK is still alive on an island in the Pacific, and Elvis has never truly left the building. But I'd still welcome a confession, even if it's of the deathbed sort years from now...preferably with confirmatory details unknown to the rest of us. I hope that LE has kept some important evidence quiet, in the expectation of just such an event.

 

[LinasK]

I understand your frustration and sense of futility...for some people, JFK is still alive on an island in the Pacific, and Elvis has never truly left the building. But I'd still welcome a confession, even if it's of the deathbed sort years from now...preferably with confirmatory details unknown to the rest of us. I hope that LE has kept some important evidence quiet, in the expectation of just such an event.

That's why in the confession poll thread, I stated "it depends on whom the confession is from". Patsy is dead, so I would only accept the confession if it is from JR. I believe if it is from Burke, or anyone else that they would be falling on their swords for JR.

 

[Bonnette]

That's why in the confession poll thread, I stated "it depends on whom the confession is from". Patsy is dead, so I would only accept the confession if it is from JR. I believe if it is from Burke, or anyone else that they would be falling on their swords for JR.

I didn't see that thread, LinasK, so thank you for repeating your thoughts here. I doubt BR would fall on his sword for anyone, but I'd welcome a confession from either JR or BR.

 

[UKGuy]

Not sure about men, but to a woman we do know the difference in "on your panties" and the "in the crotch of your panties".

ILikeToBendPages,
Sure but that term does not allow us to distinguish location, or if there are different fibers, e.g. dressing gown.

Are the fibers Coroner Meyer cites as evidence of a cleanup, the same fibers that are referenced by crotch?

.

 

[Chrishope]

:slap:C'mon Chrishope - Glad you said we know 'about' as much as we ever will. Kolar's book brought out some new info (yucky candy), as well as his radio interview with his professional deduction about where the head injury happened.

I know you have a hard time using psychological profiling along with evidence, but for some of us, sleuthing includes every bit of information we can glean to help pull the pieces together of such a jigsaw puzzle crime as this.

Let's agree, after more than 15-1/2 years, there have certainly been plenty of well trained and highly educated specialists who, as of yet, have been able to bring this case to closure. Granted, there are probably quite a few equally capable people with opposite interests, working AGAINST the resolution.

I'd say, as 'lay' people, if we aren't staying open to any shred of new insight, evidence, commentary, or WHATEVER that might fall upon the ears or eyes of anyone who can link it to this case, then we might as well as 'pick up our toys' and go home.

Sure, we can all remain unified and hope that within forum discussion we might be able to put some things together that lead to a major discovery, but after this many years with highly credible people not succeeding at doing just that, we'd better cling pretty hard to the possibility of a "break" of some sort. And maybe it'll even be you who provides it - you'll keep reading and surfing the net, and listening and watching the news, and all of a sudden you'll see or hear something that will hammer down your theory. And some of us will be right there alongside doing what we can to help you see justice served! :woohoo:

I firmly believe that someone on this earth knows all about how JB died. And even if we have all the information that we, as the general public, may ever know about this case, I will NOT stop believing we can hope and PRAY for a break in this case!

I can guarantee I'm not going to be the one who breaks it. I can also guarantee I won't be here talking about pineapple and "good southern common sense" 15 years from now.

Kolar has been a disappointment. He's confirmed there was no intruder, which most of us have known since Dec. '96. Sure, a few new items - we can spend the next 15 years guessing who put to poo on the candy, and why. But it's all just conjecture, and it won't help solve the case.

This case will end up like Jack the Ripper, people will discuss it 100 years from now, w/o the slightest possibility of a solution.

 

[DeeDee249]

ILikeToBendPages,
Sure but that term does not allow us to distinguish location, or if there are different fibers, e.g. dressing gown.

Are the fibers Coroner Meyer cites as evidence of a cleanup, the same fibers that are referenced by crotch?

.

I believe they are different fibers. The fibers in the panty crotch were definitely sources to the dark wool shirt that JR wore to the White's that day. The fibers found on her thighs and pubic area were described as "dark cotton" (I believe) and they were never sourced to a specific item as far as I know.

 

[txsvicki]

I don't know about no new evidence or new things to discuss coming out in the next 15 years. People involved are getting old and could start saying things to people. There's a new step mamma in the picture and there could be major problems cropping up over wills and money. Young people could start drinking heavily, abuse drugs and start talking. If there was severe dysfunction that never got proper treatment there could be another crime that results in talki g about jonbenet. I hope not, but anything is possible.

 

[roseofsharon]

Sorry, if this is a repeat, but I was looking at the picture of JBR on the tire swing.

I didn`t realize this was a photographer`s prop. I thought it was the R`s backyard.

I know much has been discussed regarding the type of rope used and the knots used in the murder.

Is the knot used to fasten the tire to the rope similar to any of the knots used in the muder.

Also, the flat rope used in the murder looks like white shoelaces, the kind used on a hiking boot.

Just IMO and again, sorry if any of this has been discussed previously.

 

[midwest mama]

I can guarantee I'm not going to be the one who breaks it. I can also guarantee I won't be here talking about pineapple and "good southern common sense" 15 years from now.

Kolar has been a disappointment. He's confirmed there was no intruder, which most of us have known since Dec. '96. Sure, a few new items - we can spend the next 15 years guessing who put to poo on the candy, and why. But it's all just conjecture, and it won't help solve the case.

This case will end up like Jack the Ripper, people will discuss it 100 years from now, w/o the slightest possibility of a solution.

Sure hope you're wrong about JBR's case becoming like JTR's case!

Truth is, I might not be able to hang around on the forum for another 15 years either waiting for just the right tidbit of info. Older age will probably take it's inevitable toll, but it sure would be a HALLELUJAH moment for me to be doddering along in my walker past the TV in the rec room and hear a "Special Report" newscast break in with the announcement that the JBR crime is finally no longer a mystery. In my mind, I'll be saying, "Told ya so, Chrishope!" :winko::justice: