IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[nikb]

I don't think there was a struggle. For all that Aunt TB says she taught the girls how to resist, there's no way to know if an individual will fight back until the time comes.

If there had been a struggle, I would expect to see blood, maybe hair, maybe bits of ripped fabric. The reason I'd expect to see blood is because the trail is paved. Being knocked off her feet would probably make either girl bleed since they were both apparently wearing short sleeved shirts and shorts.

Especially if a loved one is there and involved... I agree with you there should be SOMETHING but maybe it hasn't been released.I hope.

 

[Ollipop]

I just read the NG transcript:
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

Seems Aunt Tammy said, "... so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at. "

Consider the source, but I can now agree that the bikes were probably found right by the gate.

O I must sleep.

 

[Ollipop]

That's good and bad all at once. Take care of yourself and your family first.

I am freaking exhausted and have a sink full of dishes and basket full of laundry for basically the same reason except I feel even more helpless when it comes to helping L&E. I'm glad the shirts and message are still out there.

Thanks for your sleuthing and photos.

Couple guys at work concur, that their lives have essentially been on hold since this happened. I almost feel guilty doing something as trivial as mowing my lawn, knowing it would be the farthest thing from my mind if it was MY daughter missing. Of course, there is nothing trivial about spending time with my wife and kids, and I don't think (and they don't seem to think) that I've neglected them, per say. But I'm SuperDad, and lately I've only been SlightlyAboveAverageDad.

 

[Jax49]

Just saw a short segment (30-45 seconds) on CNN about NASCAR cars carrying info regarding L & E in race today in Pennsylvania. Good publicity for our girls. They showed a nice shot of the deck lid.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...sey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage&nclick_check=1

Last week, the FBI put out a call for a man driving a white van in relation to the disappearances of Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and her cousin Elizabeth Collins, now 9, who disappeared July 13 near Meyers Lake in Evansdale.

The man came forward when he saw a television picture of himself buying gas for his white van. He spoke with authorities and is not considered a suspect, officials said.

 

[TxLady2]

In the Laci Peterson case, it was said that the dogs tracked her from her house in a vehicle all the way to the bay where she eventually washed up. I think dogs are able to track a scent even a couple of weeks later. I was really surprised when it happened in the Peterson case ... but maybe those kind of dogs should be brought in ... can Tim Miller arrange something like that?

No, I think they tracked her to the highway but lost the scent in a short distance. The bay was about 90 miles away, I believe. LE then took the dogs to the bay after Scott said he was fishing there and they caught her scent at the dock. IIRC, that dog may have also been a cadaver dog, but not sure about that.
They also tracked her to the gates of a winery that was close to the home, and as I recall, the dogs indicated her scent beyond the gate, but LE stopped them and did not let them through the gate onto the grounds of the winery.
I could be wrong, but this is the way I remember it. I read nearly all the transcripts, and paid close attention to the dog handlers' testimony, which was very interesting.

 

[mahoolin]

Okay this is something that has been bugging me and I need to ask. Do any of you think the perp would visit this site?

I said in another case (that was getting very descriptive about ways to cause fatal harm) certain things shouldn't be discussed. No need to give perps MORE ideas. Some of us here at WS are very creative.

So, in answer to the question, yes, its a good training manual sometimes lol. It wouldnt surprise me if a reader, not necessarily member would get ideas pre-crime.

On the whole, I think we're all good people with big hearts who are honestly concerned with the cases we frequent. We all have our personal life experiences complimented by different points of view and that's what make things work but not everyone has a good heart.

 

[mahoolin]

That's good and bad all at once. Take care of yourself and your family first.

I am freaking exhausted and have a sink full of dishes and basket full of laundry for basically the same reason except I feel even more helpless when it comes to helping L&E. I'm glad the shirts and message are still out there.

Thanks for your sleuthing and photos.

Me too! Non WS people just don't undertand....:floorlaugh:

 

[TxLady2]

The stranger-danger talk does not work if children do not have the right response when confronted with abduction. I hadn't heard of drop to the ground before. Personally, I tell children to run. Is dropping to the ground better? Is it advantageous for adults to drop to the ground when confronted with a predator?

I would think dropping to the ground would put anyone at a disadvantage, unless they are approached on foot. Most cops will tell women and children if they're approached by a person in a vehicle to run like hell, most likely the predator will not get out of the car to chase them down. And don't go close enough to the vehicle that they can grab you.
In the scenario of someone walking up to an intended victim and grabbing their arm, it might work to drop to the ground, yell, scream, kick, bite... anything that would attract attention of other pedestrians.
One poster claims that if the predator demands that you get in the vehicle, to stand your ground and refuse. Their reasoning is that it is better to be shot and killed right there than to be taken to a remote place and raped, then killed. I disagree, I think it's better to run like hell... most predators are not going to bother getting out of the car to chase an intended victim, and not very likely to shoot someone for refusing to get in the vehicle. But even IF they shot at you, it's much harder to hit a moving target, at least fatally, unless you're got very good aim.
I guess it all depends on what the situation is. Predictably, not very many people will remember what to do if they're in a panic, but drumming it into kids' heads can't hurt. And it might help.

 

[TxLady2]

It's certainly clear in study after study that this stuff is generational. Really, you grow up in a home without great parenting, what do you know? Where would you get better role models? We don't teach parenting in most schools, not even child development or psychology in junior high or high school. Arguably, it is much more important to teach something like that than calculus.

I've long agreed with those who think we should have tax incentives to get people to have both premarital counseling and parenting classes. I'm no expert in this area but I believe other nations do this. We require a license to drive. It's not very practical to require a license to have sex or get pregnant, but we could offer incentives that would simply be much cheaper in the long run than what we pay for foster care, criminal courts, and social workers.

Sounds good in theory, doesn't it? But no matter how many incentives and laws are put into place, it's not going to matter to some people, they're going to keep on with the way they've always done it, because that's the way they' were raised.

A friend of mine once made the statement that the law has it wired all wrong. It should take a few thousand dollars to buy a marriage license and a few bucks to get a divorce. That way, there wouldn't be so many divorces because the common person couldn't afford to get married in the first place.

Seems to me that it's becoming more rare for children to grow up in homes with both parents these days, and that the nuclear family is quickly becoming outnumbered by blended families, or families with only one parent and either a stepparent or boyfriend or some such. And the homes where some type of abuse is going on is not as rare as some people think. SAD!

 

[cindysue]

The thing that keeps me going is, whoever did this needs to be found before he hurts more children! Either it's someone new in town which for as small as the town is shouldn't be immpossible to find out, or it's someone who lived there who's an oddball that has further lost their mind. And equally important is where are these two kids?

 

[GGE]

Does anyone remember that case in New York ( I think it was NY) where 3 young boys were missing for well over a week and were eventually located in the trunk of a nearby vehicle, deceased ? Given that the initial search undertaken by LE appears to have been sloppy, what are the chances that something of a similar nature was missed in this case ?

SBM, BBM -
I have a huge amount of catching up to do here, as I spend most of my time on the scanner thread now.

But I've been steadily becoming more and more convinced that is exactly what happened here.

I fear Murphy's Law is going to come into play here BIGTIME, and rub into our collective societal faces the fact that the family and their past had NOTHING to do with this, and lack of adequate initial searching had everything to do with how I am now convinced this will end up.

Very sad.

 

[cckeepsakes]

Did they ever take the dogs to the areas where if they had hopped on a boat they might have gotten off on the other side? All I saw are the references to tracking on the side the bikes were found.

 

[roseofsharon]

I really feel the girls are alive and being held in a home very close to the area of Maiden Lane. I find it hard to believe someone passing through Evansdale would risk such an abduction. This had to be someone who knew the geographic layout of the park and how to pull this off without being seen.

With this theory, the perp may have been a shift worker, self-employed, unemployed or retired and imo is living alone.

If the abduction was on one of the streets in Evansdale, then I think it is very feasible it was a stranger passing through the town.

Because the timeline is so fast, makes me think it is a local person.

Just IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

E's purse perhaps laying on the ground because she laid it down to pick something else up or hold something else, i.e. puppy, kitten. IMO

 

[SeeMamaRun]

Sorry, I see on re-reading there was definitely a paragraph break necessary.

No worries!

 

[Thinkzerz]

"The police request concerning the man and the white van prompted a flood of calls to police in Cedar Rapids, Dubuque and Evansdale. None of the calls has resulted in an arrest".

Were police hoping this guys pic and van would lead to an arrest with some tips on this guy?


"“From a law enforcement perspective, I don’t want to divulge too much information because the more hints and clues we put out there, the more we tip our hand,” he said. “The suspect is reading the paper and watching TV, too. You don’t want to give away so much that the suspect flees. That’s the last thing you want.”"


Great now the suspect might get it in his head to flee. IMO Do they have a suspect that they believe is still in the area?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...75/1001/NEWS/?odyssey=nav|head&nclick_check=1

 

[LucyOso]

There is video of the girls at 12:15. The bikes were found at 3:58. There's no question about the timeline in terms of when the girls were last seen and how quickly their bikes were found.

How does someone quickly dump two girl's bikes and a purse by travelling 200 feet through the forest, 2-300 feet along the water/fence edge, through the gate and not be seen by anyone on the lane, trail, lake or roads. The time and risk associated with ditching the bikes in broad daylight at that location (without vehicle access) - right next to the construction crews and slowed traffic - doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks! Perhaps, the girls were there. I just wonder about the choice to leave the bikes there. In most cases I have read about, the perp takes the bike or personal items and will dump it somewhere away from the scene or move it. I was just thinking how much of a coincidence it is that LE had to follow protocol to drain/search the lake prior to focusing on an abduction. Sounds to me, this perp maybe was aware of this sort of thing. Maybe he/she knew it from TV, employment in the public sector, etc...but..it seems like a too good to be true opportunity for a perp to have several days before the search is shifted elsewhere. Then again...I am know to overthink...LOL.

 

[LucyOso]

I'm just wondering is that normal LE protocol for this area?

Answering part of my own question it probably happens so rarely they don't HAVE a "protocol" but if they do, would draining the lake be part of it? It seems strange to me but I've also never heard of a lake like that with an easy to use drain. Though I wouldn't doubt it at all. I just haven't seen one (that I know of).

I think it is logical. Kids and water are like magnets. I is a very safe assumption and realistic to search a body of water where a child dissapeared. I do think there are certain protocols for missing people near water situations, as evidenced by the initial searching of the pond prior to draining it. It is important to search methodically and rule things out. More likely than not, a child missing near a body of water is in that water...sadly.

 

[nervous_nellie]

The stranger-danger talk does not work if children do not have the right response when confronted with abduction. I hadn't heard of drop to the ground before. Personally, I tell children to run. Is dropping to the ground better? Is it advantageous for adults to drop to the ground when confronted with a predator?

just catching up from last night -

dropping to the ground and kicking is what i see when im watching documentaries of people resisting arrest... jmo

i think running and/or screaming... i have read many times that if you pretend to be sick/vomiting that some would be predators will let go or stop pursuing the victim - but i dont know how true this is.

i know when i was snatched by a neighbor when i was 6-7 years old i didnt have time to even process what was happening and wasnt even scared, it happened to fast and i had a friend with me who was right behind me and just followed me right in the apartment without anyone grabbing her. it all happened silently in the apartment directly below mine...