IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[nikb]

Thanks, Jules71. Your input has been invaluable to me through out this case. I just remembered being left with the impression that he was saying there really was nothing unusual about the condition or placement of the bikes nor the condition or placement of the purse. He seemed to be saying the purse looked as if it had just been set down. He did say the purse was 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet from the fence. I remember that distinctly. I was wondering why some WSers were posting the purse was found 20 feet from the bikes and then I watched a video with JVM and she made that statement very early on. I think she was just mistaken. <snipped for space>

Thanks to both of you, MotherOcean and Jules71!

I've had the same questions about both the condition of the bikes and placement of the purse, and have been looking hard for that info. Apologies if it's already been posted, I'm catching up.

Were the bikes damaged? Not damaged? Laying across the path? Against the fence?

Was the purse seemingly dropped, set down neatly, thrown? My memory is telling me that early on the cell phone was near the purse but not in it. I might've misread something. 10' has become 20' over time and I've heard both highway side and lake side.

I'm so confused.

 

[nikb]

I had some time today and wanted to experiment with some software so I came up with this ...

I really like it! Seems cleaner and it removes the times that have had us all so confused.

 

[nikb]

I was confused about the 20'. I was looking for related articles because I seem to remember that the phone was a couple of feet from the purse ... couldn't find a link. Ten feet east of the bikes, 2 feet away from the fence, lakeside. Thanks to you and Jules.

You guys beat me to it... this is what I remember from early on too. I don't know how much it matters at this point but to me the phone being outside of the purse made me think that either the phone was tossed then there was a struggle for the purse, or the whole thing was tossed and the phone flew out.

 

[butterfly1978]

Its late and I am tired and still havent caught up from the weekend, but I have not read anythin at all about any organized searches. I know that there were searches around the lake the ay they were missing but, there are woods around the lake and the kids could very well be in those woods. If a perp took them he could have lead them in the woods and done whatever to them right there. They also could have wandered in the woods and gotten lost or hurt. Are there any caves or anything like that in those woods how many avres of woods are around there. If you remember Caylee was less than a mile from her home and that autistic girl that got lost in the woods Nadia (I think was her name) it took them days to find her. Why hasn't there been any searches?????

 

[nikb]

A lot of the elements come together here. For instance, bumping and running. The perps could have caught sight of the girls on the trail through town and caught up with them somewhere south before the trail turns west towards the lake. Then, when the girls are crossing a street, yeah, bump one of them. Or just come to a stop right in front of them. Or lure them. Any of those work.

Inside the van, that is where the perps use a stun gun to immediately immobilize both girls. No need to hurry then, so while one perp drives to the lake, the other takes care of the girls with duct tape.

At the lake, the van is under cover on Maiden Lane and the girls are secure. Again, the perps don't have to rush. Just a couple of guys with a couple of bikes on a bike trail on a sunny day. They place the bikes on the ground (as Otto and others have mentioned males tend to do) by the gate. They decide to put the purse near the water, on the lakeside of the fence. If MotherOcean is correct, the purse is set down only ten feet east of the bikes, which is the width of the bike trail. Not far at all.

So, for all anyone knows after the girls are found to be missing, they were at the lake and are very probably in the lake. The perps safely keep the girls hidden away. Only after the lake is drained and conclusively searched, a week later, do the authorities call it an abduction. And of course, then attention is immediately focused on the family, as it seemed to have been the weekend of the 21st when family members stopped cooperating. And then after the 24th, the silence begins.

I'm still up in the air about if the girls are being kept or not. But I'm still leaning towards alive.

Your post just completely freaked me out, probably because it was too likely. I agree with you I don't know why, maybe it's just blind hope, but I really feel like they're alive. They may wish they weren't at this point (sorry I didn't know a better way to say it) but I just feel that they are.

The stun gun idea yikes. For any who've read Jaycee's book that was so, so quick. Her stepdad even SAW her driven away with the perps and tried to catch them on his bike. Sorry I'm trying not to fixate on the Jaycee case it's just the only previous missing child case I know much about.

Poor girls, where are you???

 

[revampz]

I don't have a link but yes he said the bikes were fine (when someone asked the condition of them) and he said they were found at 3:58. The purse was said to be 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet from the lake side of the fence. I have seen people combining this info with previous info that the purse was 20 feet from the bikes. But the most current specific info said 10 feet east and 2 feet from fence.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

thank you for this and for the photos above.......it has given me an idea of where they were? One question, the purse was 2 feet from the fence near the lake, does anyone know if the lake is much further out? The reason I ask this is after seeing the pictures I was wondering if they parked their bikes then went further along to find a spot not so bushy maybe to jump the fence to go to the lake and put the purse down to go maybe into the lake for a swim...... if the lake was still quite a distance, then I definitely think these girls were abducted as most girls would leave their purse as close to the lake/themselves as possible. 2 feet is very close to the fence.

hope this question isnt too silly, just thinking aloud.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Its late and I am tired and still havent caught up from the weekend, but I have not read anythin at all about any organized searches. I know that there were searches around the lake the ay they were missing but, there are woods around the lake and the kids could very well be in those woods. If a perp took them he could have lead them in the woods and done whatever to them right there. They also could have wandered in the woods and gotten lost or hurt. Are there any caves or anything like that in those woods how many avres of woods are around there. If you remember Caylee was less than a mile from her home and that autistic girl that got lost in the woods Nadia (I think was her name) it took them days to find her. Why hasn't there been any searches?????

The patch of woods is, at most, 4 acres. That's less than two city blocks in area. They've been gone through quite thoroughly, including with dogs.

There were volunteer searches on 14 and 15 July that covered 12 square miles.

Since then, there have been no volunteer searches but LE continues to do targeted searches.

 

[nikb]

thank you for this and for the photos above.......it has given me an idea of where they were? One question, the purse was 2 feet from the fence near the lake, does anyone know if the lake is much further out? The reason I ask this is after seeing the pictures I was wondering if they parked their bikes then went further along to find a spot not so bushy maybe to jump the fence to go to the lake and put the purse down to go maybe into the lake for a swim...... if the lake was still quite a distance, then I definitely think these girls were abducted as most girls would leave their purse as close to the lake/themselves as possible. 2 feet is very close to the fence.

hope this question isnt too silly, just thinking aloud.

Gah I need to change "registered user" to "insomniac" under my name! But anyway... I don't know the area but I got the impression the lake was right next to the fence at the point the bikes were found. 10-20' away it seems like it'd still be pretty close to the fence unless the path curves way more than it seems to. Many of the pics are after it'd already been draining for awhile so I even wondered if 2' from the fence made any sense for the purse and phone to be on the lake side but not in or very near the water.

 

[Ollipop]

I just made it to pg 28 of the current thread. Not sure how far behind I am, but its at least 10 pages. I've only just gotten to my own comments I'd made last night, and I see I've been brought up by certain sleuthers as a possible movie-style suspect. Believe me, I agree, and have had the same thoughts (that maybe LE would come looking for the local guy who's out taking pics, walking through the woods, etc, and is on the internet 23 hours a day sleuthing). But I assure you I am uninvolved. My info is on file at WS, I have spoken to an admin by phone, and anyone is welcome to call on me or stop by any time if they want to alleviate any concern. I should warn ya, tho, that I spend an awful lot of time in my underwear.

But, alas, LE has yet to arrive. Today I looked out the window and saw the E'dale Police SUV blocking my driveway (still in the street.) I peered out the curtains, and off he went. I watched him, he was on the radio, and I think he was speed-trapping someone driving down Gilbert. At any rate, I am still frustrated that LE has not bothered to at least knock on my door, ask to search my garage, my yard, whatever.

When I heard that the FBI had "gone back to the lake," I felt myself feeling satisfaction that perhaps they were finally acting on the lead from the guy who said he saw tire tracks and energy drink cans back there. Maybe, who knows. But then I felt guilty for letting my ego swell up. LE got my info as well, so I figured if my tip where so valuable they'd come knocking.

I'll wait here I guess. Reading. Always reading. My goodness why can I read 20 pages of a book in an hour but 20 pages of internet forum seems to take me 2 days? I'm not even going to look to see how far behind I am, but know that I likely won't even get to the post immediately before this one until tomorrow sometime.

And MNdad: I totally feel ya. Incomprehensible how this monster of a case has gripped me as well.

 

[otto]

If the girls were abducted in an intersection somewhere between home and the park ... I would guess that they were spotted early on, as suggested above, and that they could have been taken closer to the park. It seems so devious to be planting the bikes at a different location right after abducting the girls.

 

[nikb]

Wondering if he was accompanied there by like a father, uncle, brother figure who had to suddenly leave and told him to stay there, he'll be right back. But it is obvious from the boys comments that whomever were not "right back". <snipped for space>

Oh yuck... OMG yuck. But you're right that could be. I've tried like 3 times now but I can't even type the other awful possibilities that came to mind. I'll keep it short with this: was the little boy there voluntarily? is he still voluntarily with whoever took him there?

 

[revampz]

Gah I need to change "registered user" to "insomniac" under my name! But anyway... I don't know the area but I got the impression the lake was right there at the point the bikes were found. 10-20' away seems like it'd still be pretty close to the lake. Many of the pics are after it'd already been draining for awhile so I even wondered if 2' made any sense for the purse and phone to be on the lake side but not in or very near the water.

If the purse is/was near to the water then I think they may have gone in for a swim and one got into trouble and maybe they both went down. Saying that if one was in trouble you'd think people would have heard screaming.....

This is all very mysterious. If they were abducted/hurt etc I am thinking that it happened elsewhere and this has been set up. I think someone rode their bikes there...it would either have had to have been two of them or someone parked near in a hidden spot and rode them in one by one. That footage of them on their bikes, have they confirmed it is THEM on the bikes??? and sorry to ask this as I know you would have all discussed this at great lengths (I have been a bit engrossed with brittney woods) there was no other camera footage of them was there?

 

[nikb]

If the purse is/was near to the water then I think they may have gone in for a swim and one got into trouble and maybe they both went down. Saying that if one was in trouble you'd think people would have heard screaming.....

This is all very mysterious. If they were abducted/hurt etc I am thinking that it happened elsewhere and this has been set up. I think someone rode their bikes there...it would either have had to have been two of them or someone parked near in a hidden spot and rode them in one by one. That footage of them on their bikes, have they confirmed it is THEM on the bikes??? and sorry to ask this as I know you would have all discussed this at great lengths (I have been a bit engrossed with brittney woods) there was no other camera footage of them was there?

I am pretty convinced they didn't go swimming just based on the fact the lake was full of leeches according to locals. They might ignore the sign about not swimming but the leeches eww. Maybe it's just a gross-out thing I have but no way. The lake's also been searched extensively and nothing found. A few threads ago someone kindly posted info about drownings and just HOW quiet they are. I always thought well if someone was in trouble they'd yell. Turns out from reports and history and stats, it's not true... they just slip away. If they can yell they can breathe. I still don't think Elizabeth and/or Lyric drowned, just wanted to mention it.

The surveillance footage, supposedly yes confirmed by the family and later by LE. I'm still not convinced it was them, it was so grainy. But I don't know them so it's MOO only and my not-very-sure opinion at that. Any other camera footage of them has probably been turned over to LE but not publicized. Maybe family could identify them better from an enhanced version of that same footage.

I desparately need to go to bed now. But 'see' you all tomorrow. As happens every night I hope to wake up to great news.

 

[SuperTmo]

Yay I finally found it! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins? We`re trying to help find them with the family of really both girls because they`re cousins. But Lyric Cook`s mom is with us as well as her sister, the aunt of both the girls, Tammy Russo.

Tammy, I want to get back to you. Do you have any thoughts with anybody in the area -- and I`ll ask this of Misty as well -- acting strangely? Was there -- have you seen any strange people, people driving around in vans, any sense that this is -- any foreshadowing whatsoever?

TAMMY RUSSO, AUNT OF MISSING GIRLS: Absolutely not. There was nothing that seemed terribly out of the ordinary. There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

Snipped for space.

If the boy was focused on his fishing and not really paying close attention to the people that were at the park, I'm quite sure he could have seen the two little girls, but not realized it. I tend to take things people say literally, and if she really did say, "two little girls on A bicycle," I would automatically assume one girl on the bike seat, and one standing on pegs or one riding on the handle bars.

If I were asked the same question that this boy was about seeing two little girls, I would have answered no, even if they rode right by me, because I would think they were looking for two "LITTLE GIRLS." Age wise, they are two little girls, but size wise, there was one little girl and one short adult.

Lyric is a big girl. I'm her exact height, but she outweighs me by quite a bit. If she was on a mountain bike, like we've heard, it's possible that this boy could have seen the girls, but assumed Lyric was a teenager or even an adult. If they were going as quickly on the trail as they appeared to be in the video, he may not have seen their faces as they went by. He very well could have seen the two of them, but not realized it.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Mornink all.
Firstly id like to say that i have no involvement in this even tho i come on WS several times a day and lurk,also im in Scotland lol and the only family i have over the pond is in exton PA.

Ok im thinking out loud here but what if the girls were at the lake cycling and something on the path stops them,maybe a young/injured animal or bird crossing in front of them?,that would make them stop and drop their bikes.Then if they followed said animal the purse may have been placed or dropped when either trying to catch up with it or trying to pick it up?,maybe then they look for a house or someone where they could get help for it.
I say this because i was terrible as a kid for bringing home puppies and injured animals/birds.lol i think at one point i had 4 woodpidgeons,a jackdaw,a grey wagtail and a puppy that i said id found but was actually being given away..

 

[nikb]

Snipped for space.

If the boy was focused on his fishing and not really paying close attention to the people that were at the park, I'm quite sure he could have seen the two little girls, but not realized it. I tend to take things people say literally, and if she really did say, "two little girls on A bicycle," I would automatically assume one girl on the bike seat, and one standing on pegs or one riding on the handle bars.

If I were asked the same question that this boy was about seeing two little girls, I would have answered no, even if they rode right by me, because I would think they were looking for two "LITTLE GIRLS." Age wise, they are two little girls, but size wise, there was one little girl and one short adult.

Very true. Trying to think from a little boy's perspective especially depending on how little he is, the girls could've looked like an adult and her daughter riding by if he wasn't paying close attention. The girls are just enough different age wise that Lyric's probably in that weird growing up wayyyyy too fast phase. (I don't know her, I'm not an expert, but I HATED that phase in life because I didn't wanna grow up quite yet.)

I'm also still wondering who was WITH or SUPPOSED TO BE WITH this boy. Maybe he's old enough to be there by himself? Maybe the town is safe enough that's normal? What if someone or more than one person were supposed there w/the boy and wasn't/weren't? Or what if the boy didn't want to be there?

MOO, my very sleep deprived thought and opinions. It's nothing against anybody [other than the creepy perp I hope will be caught].

 

[nikb]

Mornink all.
Firstly id like to say that i have no involvement in this even tho i come on WS several times a day and lurk,also im in Scotland lol and the only family i have over the pond is in exton PA.

Ok im thinking out loud here but what if the girls were at the lake cycling and something on the path stops them,maybe a young/injured animal or bird crossing in front of them?,that would make them stop and drop their bikes.Then if they followed said animal the purse may have been placed or dropped when either trying to catch up with it or trying to pick it up?,maybe then they look for a house or someone where they could get help for it.
I say this because i was terrible as a kid for bringing home puppies and injured animals/birds.lol i think at one point i had 4 woodpidgeons,a jackdaw,a grey wagtail and a puppy that i said id found but was actually being given away..

Welcome!!! I don't know where everyone gets all the cool welcome icons but I'm sure they'll be here soon.

Yeah, I agree the animals could be a lure. I knew not to stop for "candy" or a "puppy" but there are so many other possibilities. I rescued critters or tried to a lot. Heck I still DO that a lot. I feel so naive even in my <ahem cough do iI have to admit this?> late 30s/nearly 40s, I can't even imagine the dangers I ignored at ages 8 through 11. It makes me sad kids can't save a bird or try to, rescue a puppy, even go for a bike ride without the need to be scared, though.

To the posters in general, sorry if any of my recent posts made no sense. Please ask me questions if you want me to explain anything when I'm more awake. MUST.SLEEP. for now.

 

[cindersoot]

I was researching differnet articles regarding this case and came upon a comment on this article that struck my attention. http://m.topix.com/forum/city/evansdale-ia/T6TKS5A8QDQN5IR12

Does anyone know if it's still for sale?

 

[nervous_nellie]

I think Gma is talking about the entrance off of Abustus...and that most people utilize the other northerly entrance off of Gilbertsville Rd? I'm assuming, because of no formal parking lot off Abustus, that most who enter the park there are locals from the neighborhood or others (like TG) entering from the other trails it connects to. So it could be a non-local who knows the trail well from just it's connectors to the others. ie: Someone who rides or runs more than 6-7 miles regularly. IMO

Just wanted to comment about the greenery between the fence and the highway. Locals say it is steep.......and there is a pic of 2-3 LEO walking that area in the search. The weeds are 5' tall and the LEO had their arms out to their sides while walking it. God Bless them...no way in hello would I be in 5' weeds. Yuk and snakes galore.

i was just thinking as im catching up, someone who would prolly really "know" the area would be whoever mows the grass regularly in and around the park, do the same entities mow both the park/lake and the grass incline along the interstate? city takes care of park, state mows along interstate?

i think that someone would be more likely to notice a car driving on the trail or in the grass points in between, but what about an atv or public works vehicle of some sort or even a golf cart kind of off road vehicle?

 

[auntiejoe]

Welcome!!! I don't know where everyone gets all the cool welcome icons but I'm sure they'll be here soon.

Yeah, I agree the animals could be a lure. I knew not to stop for "candy" or a "puppy" but there are so many other possibilities. I rescued critters or tried to a lot. Heck I still DO that a lot. I feel so naive even in my <ahem cough do iI have to admit this?> late 30s/nearly 40s, I can't even imagine the dangers I ignored at ages 8 through 11. It makes me sad kids can't save a bird or try to, rescue a puppy, even go for a bike ride without the need to be scared, though.

To the posters in general, sorry if any of my recent posts made no sense. Please ask me questions if you want me to explain anything when I'm more awake. MUST.SLEEP. for now.

(The welcome icons are the smiles.) You see them when you reply to a post but you have to click on more...and in one minute you get numerous icons to chose from. HTH