IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[lishac23]

The dogs went to the lake ... and the girls bikes and purse were right there ... so it makes sense that they went from the bikes to the lake. Even if the dogs tracked to the Maiden Lane area, it suggests that something belonging to the girls was in the Maiden Lane area and the lake. Dogs track scent ... scent that could belong to clothing, bikes ... not necessarily that the girls walked the distance from the bikes to Maiden Lane. The dog information doesn't preclude staging.

So it is possible that the dogs were picking up their scent via their belongings and not necessarily the girls themselves? I wasn't sure. I thought they were able to isolate these types of things.

 

[otto]

Only thing that keeps me from believing the bikes were staged is the scent dogs. Not sure if the report is 100% accurate...but if the dogs followed their scent to the bikes, and then followed their scent to the lake, IMO they were there. I'm no scent dog expert of course, but I don't think their scent would still have been traceable had it been a dump job.

Dogs are given something to smell and they track that smell ... it seems to me that dogs may find more clothing belonging to the person they are tracking or they find the person. If the girl's bikes were taken from Maiden Lane to the gate, the dogs could have tracked that smell.

 

[RNER]

The problem with the staging theory is the dogs picked up the girls scent.

I remember it being reported, but who actually confirmed that the dogs picked up the girl's scents? Was it LE, a family member, a witness, media? I recall the information being vague regarding direction, location, etc.

 

[song22]

MOO, but I definitely think people are barking up the wrong tree with all the white van stuff. I mean, come on, if you were really running a highly illegal and despicable child trafficking/*advertiser censored* ring, you wouldn't have uniforms and a company car! People are connecting all these white van abduction attempts all over the country and saying it is a ring of people working together. Any decent criminal enterprise would make sure their cars look as different as possible - not identical! Heck, why not just paint "Kiddie *advertiser censored* Abductors" on the side if they are all going to look the same?!

Here in the Des Moines area we started hearing about abduction attempts in the spring. We would get email alerts from the school. Some of them were just ridiculous, a van turning around in someone's driveway. or a van parked on a side street with the side door open. I think there were about three of them that were troubling. One of those (it was an attempt in urbandale) was later determined to be a false report, just made up. it was not widely reported in the media that it had been a false report, but we did get an email follow up about it. when I try to search the story, I can't find it. I wonder how often these reports are made, people get scared, and they never hear the follow-up where the report is found to be false.

 

[otto]

So it is possible that the dogs were picking up their scent via their belongings and not necessarily the girls themselves? I wasn't sure. I thought they were able to isolate these types of things.

It seems to me that tracking dogs are trained to follow a scent associated with an object belonging to a missing person ... so it seems just as likely that they locate an object belonging to the missing person as the person. If the bikes were driven to Maiden Lane, then carried through the forested area to the gate (along the lake side of the fence), then dogs could track from the bikes back to Maiden Lane.

 

[otto]

I remember it being reported, but who actually confirmed that the dogs picked up the girl's scents? Was it LE, a family member, a witness, media? I recall the information being vague regarding direction, location, etc.

The FBI said that the dogs tracked from the bikes to the lake. Brouseau said on the Nancy Grace show (transcripts posted upthread) that she watched the dogs track first one child, then the other, to the Maiden Lane area ... where the scent was then lost.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The dogs went to the lake ... and the girls bikes and purse were right there ... so it makes sense that they went from the bikes to the lake. Even if the dogs tracked to the Maiden Lane area, it suggests that something belonging to the girls was in the Maiden Lane area and the lake. Dogs track scent ... scent that could belong to clothing, bikes ... not necessarily that the girls walked the distance from the bikes to Maiden Lane. The dog information doesn't preclude staging.

The dogs did not go to the lake.

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Nancy, out of the girls` shoes. Family members were lined up so that the dogs could eliminate their scent. They then followed the scent from where the girls` bikes were found. And we know that the dogs went not too far, but into a wooded area at the end, the terminus, of this bike path. And that`s as far as we know that the dogs got...Now the scent dogs are telling me that`s not what happened, they did not go toward the lake, and the grandmother and the mother are telling me these girls are not going to take their clothes off and jump in naked, and they`re not going to go in and come home dripping wet. So to them their voluntary entrance into that lake is, in my mind, ruled out.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

The person who said they went to the lake was MCM.

Scent dogs following the girls' trail led searchers around the lake and stopped at the water's edge, according to Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[callyn]

I remember it being reported, but who actually confirmed that the dogs picked up the girl's scents? Was it LE, a family member, a witness, media? I recall the information being vague regarding direction, location, etc.

BBM
It was a family member interpreting what she saw the dogs do. We have not heard from the dog handler who may or may not have a totally different interpretation of the dogs' actions. Sorry, don't remember if it was TB or someone else who spoke about it.

ETA: Apparently it was MCM who talked about what she saw the dogs do that day.

 

[lishac23]

The dogs did not go to the lake.

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Nancy, out of the girls` shoes. Family members were lined up so that the dogs could eliminate their scent. They then followed the scent from where the girls` bikes were found. And we know that the dogs went not too far, but into a wooded area at the end, the terminus, of this bike path. And that`s as far as we know that the dogs got...Now the scent dogs are telling me that`s not what happened, they did not go toward the lake, and the grandmother and the mother are telling me these girls are not going to take their clothes off and jump in naked, and they`re not going to go in and come home dripping wet. So to them their voluntary entrance into that lake is, in my mind, ruled out.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

The person who said they went to the lake was MCM.

Scent dogs following the girls' trail led searchers around the lake and stopped at the water's edge, according to Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

In regarded to the bolded statements....would this description describe the Maiden Lane area Otto showed us?

 

[callyn]

The dogs did not go to the lake.

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Nancy, out of the girls` shoes. Family members were lined up so that the dogs could eliminate their scent. They then followed the scent from where the girls` bikes were found. And we know that the dogs went not too far, but into a wooded area at the end, the terminus, of this bike path. And that`s as far as we know that the dogs got...Now the scent dogs are telling me that`s not what happened, they did not go toward the lake, and the grandmother and the mother are telling me these girls are not going to take their clothes off and jump in naked, and they`re not going to go in and come home dripping wet. So to them their voluntary entrance into that lake is, in my mind, ruled out.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

The person who said they went to the lake was MCM.

Scent dogs following the girls' trail led searchers around the lake and stopped at the water's edge, according to Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

BBM
I do not remember her saying "around the lake". Not at all.

 

[RNER]

I would also say only if the abduction happened close to the lake. If it happened anywhere else, there are many places to dump the bikes that would be eaiser to get to and less likely to have witnesses.

I agree. Why would an "abductor" stage anything if the motive was to "abduct"? Unless I am missing something, the "abduction" would have already occured with or without the bikes, so there would be no reason to risk beeing seen by "staging" them unless the "abductor" had some reason to draw attention to the lake and away from themselves or another a more obvious location! HMMM! Again, WHY?????????????

IMO...either the bikes were at the lake because the girls were there or they were staged to draw attention to the lake and AWAY FROM AN OBVIOUS SOMEWHERE ELSE AND SOMEONE ELSE!

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM
I do not remember her saying "around the lake". Not at all.

I posted a link :dunno:

 

[Bodhi]

I'm open to the bikes being staged too, but ONLY if the perp is local. If it is a random sex offender who just got off the freeway - he has no reason to stage the bikes. He would either take them or leave them where he took the girls. However, if a local came out of his house, lured the girls inside, and then subdued them is the perp -- he HAD TO stage the bikes -- to get them off of his driveway!!

Good point, Jaime. I agree that only a person who is local would need to stage the bikes. Unless the person would be associated with the abduction site, I doubt an abductor would take the time or feel the need to do that.

Staging the bikes takes time and increases the risk of being seen doing it. A non-local pedophile would have what he wanted and be on his way out of the area as fast as possible.

But, if the abductor is local and, as you say, if the bikes are on his driveway or at his job site, he'd have to the risk of being seen transporting and placing the bikes.

The problem I have is reconciling the cyclist's account of the bikes being on the path and hours later the bikes being found during the search leaning against the fence.

From the fact that the cyclist had to swerve around them, it sounds like the bikes were lying on the ground. That indicates the girls got off the bikes quickly. It could be that was when the abduction occurred.

Or it could be something entirely innocent--one of the girls spotted a rabbit or something and they jumped off to check it out. After the cyclist went by the bikes, the girls returned and at some point leaned the bikes against the fence.

It's also possible someone moved the kids' bikes off the path and put them against the fence as a nice way of keeping the trail passable. But I haven't heard of anyone else using the trail saying they moved the bikes.

I don't know! It's so frustrating!

 

[otto]

The dogs did not go to the lake.

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Nancy, out of the girls` shoes. Family members were lined up so that the dogs could eliminate their scent. They then followed the scent from where the girls` bikes were found. And we know that the dogs went not too far, but into a wooded area at the end, the terminus, of this bike path. And that`s as far as we know that the dogs got...Now the scent dogs are telling me that`s not what happened, they did not go toward the lake, and the grandmother and the mother are telling me these girls are not going to take their clothes off and jump in naked, and they`re not going to go in and come home dripping wet. So to them their voluntary entrance into that lake is, in my mind, ruled out.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

The person who said they went to the lake was MCM.

Scent dogs following the girls' trail led searchers around the lake and stopped at the water's edge, according to Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

The bikes were at the gate not more than a couple of feet from the lake.

"Abben confirms bloodhounds brought in by the FBI picked up the girls' scent near the trail where their bicycles were found, but he would not elaborate. "

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-iowa-girls-fbi-dogs-detect-cousins-scents/story?id=16798151

"FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said the reaction from the dogs Monday night indicated a "strong possibility" the girls had been at the lake, less than a mile from their grandmother's house where they were last reported seen Friday. However, Breault said because there were no reported sightings, authorities couldn't be certain."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-17/iowa-missing-girls/56267776/1

I wouldn't rely too heavily on what the Nancy Grace show has to say about these missing children ... she and her guest's opinions are often more about ratings than facts ... in my humble opinion.

 

[shefner]

Let me tell ya....as a momma, this thing would drive me completely insane. I don't know if I could function at all. Where are these babies?

 

[callyn]

The FBI said that the dogs tracked from the bikes to the lake. Brouseau said on the Nancy Grace show (transcripts posted upthread) that she watched the dogs track first one child, then the other, to the Maiden Lane area ... where the scent was then lost.

Okay, I'm lost. Was it MCM or TB who talked about what she observed the dogs doing that day? We have statements from different WSers stating it was TB and others saying it was MCM.
I's like to see the video of that interview but don't know how to find it.

 

[RNER]

BBM
It was a family member interpreting what she saw the dogs do. We have not heard from the dog handler who may or may not have a totally different interpretation of the dogs' actions. Sorry, don't remember if it was TB or someone else who spoke about it.

ETA: Apparently it was MCM who talked about what she saw the dogs do that day.

Thanks...that's what I thought. Unless someone can provided an FBI or LE quote indicating otherwise, I'll note this as "family interpretation"...just like the Lie Detector testing and "results".

 

[LittleMissContrary]

I live approx. 6 miles from this location. I am signed up through police department to receive important news. Not saying this has anything to do with girls, but there was someone on here that was wishing to keep track of all suspicious activities in surrounding areas. I am approx. 1 hour 15 min from waterloo. Here is the link. https://local.nixle.com/alert/4867314/?sub_id=346495

That was me, and thank you very much. I will add that one to the database. My post got pulled, but I am going to send a message to the appropriate people here on websleuths and see if they would allow me to repost it at some point. It would be helpful to see a comprehensive list of all the abduction attempts as well as abductions for sleuthing purposes. This may help to answer questions raised here about the white van phenomenon and such.

 

[Wishbone]

BBM
I do not remember her saying "around the lake". Not at all.

Here's another source for Misty saying that........

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-07-20/...cousins_1_lake-search-lyric-cook-25-acre-lake


Scent dogs following the girls' trail led searchers around the lake and stopped at the water's edge, according to Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey.

 

[otto]

I agree. Why would an "abductor" stage anything if the motive was to "abduct"? Unless I am missing something, the "abduction" would have already occured with or without the bikes, so there would be no reason to risk beeing seen by "staging" them unless the "abductor" had some reason to draw attention to the lake and away from themselves or another a more obvious location! HMMM! Again, WHY?????????????

IMO...either the bikes were at the lake because the girls were there or they were staged to draw attention to the lake and AWAY FROM AN OBVIOUS SOMEWHERE ELSE AND SOMEONE ELSE!

I was originally thinking that too ... why risk staging the bikes after abducting the children? It seemed like adding an unnecessary risk factor, but it could have been done to obscure facts and perplex investigators. It certainly bought the perp(s) time, since it was a week before it was officially considered to be an abduction. For example, if the girls were abducted 3 blocks away but the bikes were at the lake, police would not be looking at closed circuit TV where the girls were abducted ... they may never discover where they were abducted. That really helps the perp in terms of getting away with the abduction. If the bikes were staged, it suggests a methodical perp that knows the area.